[Deck] The Gate

[beez]

Hollywood, what would you use in that 2 mana slot if you didn't have dark confidants? I have used the Bloodgift demon in a fairly competitive deck with the percys and dark rituals and that dude was house (loved only paying one life and getting late game card advantage quick to lock it down), and i never had trouble getting him out because the mono black tends to make for longer grindy games, but in the gate you are getting stuff out quick and beating down, and the dark rits and bloodgifts are 8 slots and i know you would never recommend replacing a 2 drop with a 5 drop.

[LDX]

Hi there! First time posting on The Source, but well, here is where I found The Gate, so I might as well ask my questions in the original thread. First of all, here is the draft decklist I'll attempt to play in few days at a local tournament, with around 32 players. I'll obviously give reviews of my matches when it ends, but I need to make sure this is what I'll use.

Mainboard

4 Dark Confidant
3 Vampire Nighthawk
3 Gatekeeper of Malakir
2 Faerie Macabre
3 Abyssal Persecutor

3 Innocent Blood
2 Cabal Therapy
2 Hymn to Tourach
3 Duress

3 Bitterblossom

2 Liliana of the Veil

2 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
2 Sensei's Divining Top

2 Smother
2 Geth's Verdict

4 Wasteland
17 Swamp

Sideboard

4 Extirpate
1 Cabal Therapy
1 Hymn to Tourach
3 Infest
2 Powder Keg
1 Ratchet Bomb
2 Soul Spike
1 Gate to Phyrexia

Justification

Faerie Macabre: I run 2 Faerie Macabre mainboard just because I want to have a chance vs Dredge or Reanimator first match. To be honest, no one in my close meta plays any graveyard-based decks, but I read this thread carefuly and decided to look upon those who tried tournaments and considered it as a must. Mostly Hollywood's reviews to be honest. I trust you.

Duress: I also run Duress over anything else because, as written few pages ago, I do think The Gate is all about creature removal anyway, and that discard is mostly used to give us a chance vs control/combo deck. If my opponent plays a creature I am supposed to be able to get rid of it anyway. I don't have much experience at tournament level but it's the ideology I have behind it. I would like some thoughts on that, please. I do own some Thoughtseize I could use but I feel it's too costly in terms of life, but maybe with the Sensei's Divining Top helping, they could be of use? I'm really willing to hear about it.

Sensei's Divining Top: Well, talking about it, Sensei's Divining Top did help me alot in the few tests I played. Even without any fetch. I never drew more than one in any game and found myself LACKING them when I didn't draw any. I know some people don't play them but according to me I should even have one more. I however think it's more a hype than anything so I stay rational and keep it at 2, but well... has anyone tried them and removed them from their deck? If so, why? What happened?

Liliana of the Veil: Yes, she isn't that much ''aggro''. That's why I don't run 4 of her. She just helps me so hard vs combo decks like High Tide. And even then, at worst, she's a free target or a creature removal. I'm not 100% convinced but so far she was useful.

Umezawa's Jitte / Sword of Light and Shadow: It could be said that the sword is a meta choice and it wouldn't be wrong. Protection from black just help so hard against so many players playing hard removal. Also, the life gain helps so much when Jitte is too busy dealing with creatures. This is the card, in my opinion, that made my deck good when I added it. I don't see any reasons to remove it for an other Jitte, but I'm open to suggestions backed with experience and facts.

Smother / Geth's Verdict: I once got raped by a Merfolk deck using Mutavault. I didn't have any instant removals back then, and I did regret it hard. This is why I added these, but I don't know if they are the good cards. I do know I need some instant removals but I'm still unsure on which to use. Suggestions?

Sideboard options: First of all, Infest vs aggro in my meta, would it be Affinity, Merfoks, Goblins, Knights or Elves. I mostly played vs Elves in my test and I found this to be of use, didn't own any Perish back then but even now I run Infest over it, it helps vs more things, in my opinion. Then, Extirpate for graveyard hate, I think it justifies itself, Hymn to Tourach and Cabal Therapy vs Burn and combo decks. I run 2 Soul Spike because of one single reason: the first game I played in a tournament ever, I got owned turn 2 by an ANT deck. He killed me right away when I was playing Zoo. I swore to myself it would never happen anymore. I also run 2 Powder Keg for tokens, mostly Miracles decks, 1 Gate to Phyrexia vs Affinity (Bitterblossom helps so much in this match) and 1 Ratchet Bomb vs my nightmare: Leyline of Sanctity. HOW TO BEAT THIS CARD!!?

Questions
I do have alot of questions on how to play this deck but I will make it short. Most importantly I want to know what to sideboard in/out vs what match-up. Just a case, vs a Burn deck, what to do? I so far side in Cabal Therapy and Hymn to Tourach and remove some removals, but what more can I do? Extirpate in, but what do I get out? Dark Confidant, since it auto dies vs a Lightning Bolt?

What about ANT? Belcher? High Tide? Any deck running Leyline of Sanctity? I never know what to side out and mostly go with feelings, but feelings aren't always helping.

I also have problems at dealing with timing, like, when to play aggro, when to play control, etc. If I have the choice between playing a Dark Confidant or using a Smother, what should I do? I guess it's depending on the situation, but is there a general line to follow? I mostly need to know when to play my creatures instead of other cards, that's about it.

On the same topic, is it better to equip Jitte when it's not THAT needed, or should I play more discard spells since I have time? Tough decisions to make.

I obviously have more questions but it won't come out now. Thank you for reading and I'll answer if I find more inspiration.

TL/DR: Can I have a general overview of my decklist, with some constructives comments based on facts and experience?

[dsck]

@LDX

Many of the questions you asked are things you learn through playing. My favourite cards when I played the Gate were Cabal Therapy, Jitte and Dark Confidant. I'd max out Therapies and cut maybe Geth's Verdicts.

Regarding sideboard, I personally had 2-3 Dark Rituals for combo and otherwise very fast matchups like infect stompy. Dystopias are awesome and I wouldnt play this deck without them @ your sideboard.

Extirpates and Gate to Phyrexia arent cards I think you should spend so many sideboard slots on. I also believe there are better things than Infests, Powder Kegs and Ratchet Bombs out there. You really need to take your time and research what you need. I for example had some Phyrexian Revokers and they did some work ;) They are quite good against Sneak Attack, Griselbrand and Lion's Eye Diamonds if those are popular where you play.

Against burn try to slow them down with discard and drop Nighthawk/or get Jitte'd creature out there. Sideboard out Confidants, Bitterblossoms and some Innocent bloods. Do not sideboard in Extirpates, those are waste of cards, your opponent has his deck full of 3 damage 1 mana burn spells and he doesnt care if you extirpate some away.

I'd also recommend reading Caleb's article on Cabal Therapy

Card tags are [cards ] [ /cards] instead of [c] + [/c].

[Qweerios]

What do you guys think of the new demon for the gate?

[LDX]

@LDX

Many of the questions you asked are things you learn through playing. My favourite cards when I played the Gate were Cabal Therapy, Jitte and Dark Confidant. I'd max out Therapies and cut maybe Geth's Verdicts.

Regarding sideboard, I personally had 2-3 Dark Rituals for combo and otherwise very fast matchups like infect stompy. Dystopias are awesome and I wouldnt play this deck without them @ your sideboard.

Extirpates and Gate to Phyrexia arent cards I think you should spend so many sideboard slots on. I also believe there are better things than Infests, Powder Kegs and Ratchet Bombs out there. You really need to take your time and research what you need. I for example had some Phyrexian Revokers and they did some work ;) They are quite good against Sneak Attack, Griselbrand and Lion's Eye Diamonds if those are popular where you play.

Against burn try to slow them down with discard and drop Nighthawk/or get Jitte'd creature out there. Sideboard out Confidants, Bitterblossoms and some Innocent bloods. Do not sideboard in Extirpates, those are waste of cards, your opponent has his deck full of 3 damage 1 mana burn spells and he doesnt care if you extirpate some away.

I'd also recommend reading Caleb's article on Cabal Therapy

Card tags are [cards ] [ /cards] instead of [c] + [/c].

Well, thank you for your response. Being honest you convinced me on Dystopia, I might cut the Powder Keg and the Ratchet Bomb for them, with maybe Gate to Phyrexia. It's the best card I've seen so far vs Leyline, and I'll keep it until it is sacrified. Don't you lose too much life tho?

I think I understand why you're running the Revoker as The Gate is all about 2 effects cards, and that would be the reason why you don't have any Pitching Needle in your deck. Am I correct on this? Or should I ask why wouldn't you play Pitching Needle over Revoker?

In fact the only place I find myself confused is on Extirpate. I believe this card is just amazing, I see it as a way to remove a threat permanently, and that why opponent won't be able to play that ever again. I mean, a Burn deck with no more Lighting Bolt is just good to face, no? Or a Show and Tell deck with no more Show and Tell. How isn't it good? I'm open but I would like to understand your reasoning.

And hmm, thanks for the tag info and the article on Cabal Therapy. I appreciate.

[dsck]

Well, thank you for your response. Being honest you convinced me on Dystopia, I might cut the Powder Keg and the Ratchet Bomb for them, with maybe Gate to Phyrexia. It's the best card I've seen so far vs Leyline, and I'll keep it until it is sacrified. Don't you lose too much life tho?

I think I understand why you're running the Revoker as The Gate is all about 2 effects cards, and that would be the reason why you don't have any Pitching Needle in your deck. Am I correct on this? Or should I ask why wouldn't you play Pitching Needle over Revoker?

In fact the only place I find myself confused is on Extirpate. I believe this card is just amazing, I see it as a way to remove a threat permanently, and that why opponent won't be able to play that ever again. I mean, a Burn deck with no more Lighting Bolt is just good to face, no? Or a Show and Tell deck with no more Show and Tell. How isn't it good? I'm open but I would like to understand your reasoning.

And hmm, thanks for the tag info and the article on Cabal Therapy. I appreciate.

The life loss is doable with 6-7 cards that gain you life. You can choose not to pay for it and sac it if you have new Dystopia in your hand as well.

Revoker carries equipment and is better against combo than pithing needle. Against Planeswalkers I wish I had needle though. Im not saying you cant play both

Against show and tell decks Extirpate can be amazing. But against consistent decks with fast clock you basically discard a card for 1 back mana from your own hand. Why do you care if burn deck doesnt have lightning bolts? They have 16 another lightning bolt type cards left in their deck and you wasted your mana and a card from your hand. And there isnt that many long grindy matchups where you need extirpate, bitterblossom and hymn do well enough in those.


Im thinking of picking this deck up on MTGO, everything except wastelands seem quite cheap and reasonable

[LDX]

Why exactly is Revoker better against combo, and what do you think about cutting 2 Extirpate for 1 Hymn and 1 Cabal Therapy? Would it be better?

[dsck]

Revoker shuts Lion's Eye Diamond/Lotus Petal and attacks. Against Show and Tell you drop it and if they reveal griselbrand you name it, if they reveal sneak attack you name that. I'd still play full 4 Cabal Therapy maindeck. 2 Hymns or Mindbreak Traps instead of extirpates sounds okay.

[LDX]

I must admit I missed the part where it says ''UNLESS THEY ARE MANA ABILITIES'' on Pithing Needle. Thank you for opening my eyes. I guess the best I can do is to still read and try to play as much as possible.

[Hardcore]

@LDX leyline is a piece of shit; any good combo player will prefer not to wreck his deck with dead cards. Non-combo players have just put 3-4 cards into the deck to counter 8-10 discard. Net gain 4 -6 cards only.

Burn is easy. Once his hand is empty gee will struggle. Hymn and jitte are King.

[cosboy]

Thanks for the feedback Hollywood.

I ended up running this list on Tuesday:

4 Dark Confidant
4 Vampire Nighthawk
4 Gatekeeper of Malakir
3 Abyssal Persecutor

4 Innocent Blood

3 Bitterblossom
3 Umezawa's Jitte
2 Liliana of the Veil

4 Cabal Therapy
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Duress

4 Wasteland
17 Swamp

Sideboard

1 Faerie Macabre
2 Nihil Spellbomb
3 Spinning Darkness
3 Extirpate
3 Pithing needle
3 Dystopia


First round, I played against a deck with Chains of Mephistopeles, which turned out to be an easy win (2-0). I didn't sideboard that match.

Second round, I played against Esperblade and lost quite fast. I think I would have had a better chance if I sideboarded in more cards. But I have always had problems with that deck. I lost 0-2.

Third round, I met a RGW-deck and everything in my deck just worked. Didn't sideboard that match either and won 2-0.

Unfortunately, I couldn't stay for the fourth round.

Finally, I must say I really like to play with this deck.

[cosboy]

What do you all think about Desecration Demon instead of Abyssal Persecutor?

[Greenpoe]

Descration Demon is worse than Persecutor as a creature, but running it allows you to cut the Therapies and such. It may be a good replacement in a green-splashed version, allowing you to run Abrupt Decay (and Goyf obviously). It could run some SB Deeds, too.

[cosboy]

Descration Demon is worse than Persecutor as a creature, but running it allows you to cut the Therapies and such. It may be a good replacement in a green-splashed version, allowing you to run Abrupt Decay (and Goyf obviously). It could run some SB Deeds, too.

I see two other benefits. You can play more than one. With Persecutor, you normally don't want 2 on the battlefield. Also, it is a way to get rid of opponents creatures.

On the bad side, it might not be able to block.

[MoxBropal]

I'm not sold on Desecration Demon. It's not a guaranteed clock like Percy. Also, I can't imagine wanting to run less than 4 Therapies. Used correctly I feel like it's our strongest card.

[ThediscoPower]

I'm not sold on Desecration Demon. It's not a guaranteed clock like Percy. Also, I can't imagine wanting to run less than 4 Therapies. Used correctly I feel like it's our strongest card.

that, and the fact that trample is actually a thing. I don't know about you guys, but lots of lingering souls where I play, and persecutor is actually very good against those. Aside from that, it's also good against bitterblossom and a reasonable way to make sure your swords activate (if you play any).

[MoxBropal]

Question for you guys:

Turn 1 (on the play), you cast Cabal Therapy against Merfolk. Assuming it resolves, what is the best call?

I'd also be interested in your advice against other top decks like RUG Delver and Esper Stoneblade.

[Shawon]

Question for you guys:

Turn 1 (on the play), you cast Cabal Therapy against Merfolk. Assuming it resolves, what is the best call?

I'd also be interested in your advice against other top decks like RUG Delver and Esper Stoneblade.

Aether Vial, if you're on the play.

RUG, I'd name Delver of Secrets on the play.

Esper Stoneblade, Swords to Plowshares.

[MoxBropal]

Should we be playing Deathrite Shaman? Even without the green ability, I feel like he could function kind of like a Grim Lavamancer for us, giving us reach in the long game. Obviously it can't dome creatures but The Gate has plenty of removal for that. What do you guys think?

[Hardcore]

It will be most useful as a Llanowar Elf.