The problem is that multiple copies of Entomb are about as useful as multiple copies of Loam - that is, somewhat, but not very much. Once you Entomb for Loam, what else are you going for? Worm Harvest will not be relevant until late, Raven's Crime is bad, Entombing for a land is fine but not something I'd want to spend mana and a card to accomplish, and anything else will require a second card to actually use.Originally Posted by Hanni
Remember, finding Life from the Loam is not always a pressing concern. With the amount of graveyard hate in the format, running out Loam as quickly as possible can be a good way to lose them, either to a Surgical, a sandbagged Crypt or Relic, or something less common like the new Dryad Militant or Rest in Peace. This deck can - and does - win without ever using or even seeing a LftL, and I feel like this is the direction in which the deck should move. Graveyard dependency is only going to become more of a handicap as time goes on, since Wizards seems to be more cautious about graveyard-centric abilities and more cavalier with the power of the hate.
Please don't try to drum up sympathy for yourself to support your arguments. Ideas are appreciated, but be willing to discuss them.
I'm not drumming up sympathy, I'm just stating a fact. You know this as well as I do. It also has nothing to do with being willing to discuss my ideas, because I always do. I just already know that regardless of how good or bad the idea is, it's never going to be accepted in here. This thread isn't as stubborn as the UW Tempo thread used to be, but it's not far off.Please don't try to drum up sympathy for yourself to support your arguments. Ideas are appreciated, but be willing to discuss them.
Anyway, idea thrown out there, idea discussed, idea dismissed, and now I'll take my leave. Hopefully someone benefits from the discussion, whether they agree or disagree with me.
If I come up with another idea, I'll be sure to post it, as I always do.
Would you guy play 4 Goyf, 4 Ooze, or a 2/2 split in this deck? I was thinking about playing 4 Countryside Crusher, 4 Bob and either 4 Goyf, 4 ooze, or a split.
I would split. Goyf is not the best in this deck but Oozes fight each other for food, so you don't want too many of them.
I see your point. Now, if you were to play against Combo decks, wouldn't Goyf be better than Ooze? Would you play MD Discard spell or just 4 of them in the sideboard.
The reason is I am going to make a massive trade to start playing this deck, and I would like to make it right the first time. Does this deck always lose against Combo? Storm/High tide/Show N Tell.
Against combo, Goyf is often just a 3/4 (land, Ponder, Brainstorm, basically). This is better than Ooze, of course, but not a significant improvement.
The problem with discard vs. combo is that your clock is not fast enough to make discard a reliable disruption strategy. Short of a fast Assault or Goyf spam (in other words, short of above-average hands), you're probably about a turn too slow even with a Duress or two. The deck really needs more creatures to capitalize on that approach.
Meaning I will almost always lose against combo decks? My meta as 1-2 Show and tell player, 1 high tide player and 1 storm player during big tournaments (32 players+)
More or less. Part of the problem with Life from the Loam is that it's a build-around card; like most build-arounds, you either have enough stuff to support it and it's good, or you don't have enough stuff and it doesn't work very well. The problem here is that the stuff that's good with Loam - extra lands, Mox Diamond, Dark Confidant, Crusher, Assault - is either too slow or actively detrimental in a matchup where your sole goal is to do as much damage as quickly as possible. Unfortunately, so much of your deck is dedicated to making Loam work that you can't sideboard that stuff out in favor of anti-combo cards and expect to win, not unless you want literally your entire sideboard to be fast aggro cards and discard. It's often best to just accept that you can gain a couple of percentage points in games two and three with some token discard, but it will basically never be close to positive for you.
EDIT: If you want to stay GB/x, where x is not blue, I'd suggest a Maverick base with a black splash for Bob, Abrupt Decay, Thoughtseize, and Inquisition. Thalia, Teeg, and the discard should put the hurt on combo and you'll have enough creatures to back that up with a credible clock.
Right now I am piloting a U/W Miracle hybrid list, which tends to get boring. If I change to another deck I will be trading my forces which won't let me play blue anymore.
The rock would be better than Aggro Loam then?
The Rock, Junk, whatever you want to call it. I guess it depends on your tolerance for losing to combo - Aggro Loam is still good-to-decent against most of the rest of the field.
I run 4 Scavenging Ooze. I am never sorry to have one. Yes, in theory, they compete for food. However, one thing is that they are a lightning rod for removal and counterspells. The card is so unbelievably effective against virtually EVERYTHING (you get it into play mid-game against RUG and its wins by itself). It’s good against Maverick, and other creature decks, Snapcaster, Dredge, Reanimator (lol). It’s not great against Sneak and Show, so often some copies get sided out.
I run 3 Tarmogoyfs, and it’s very possible that the split should be 3 Ooze/4 Goyf. The card is still amazing.
I ran 3 Ooze, 3 Goyf and felt like I had half an Ooze too many, but our builds are also significantly different.
Still, this decks sounds fun. Would you care sharing your list?
Stock decklists lose to combos hard, however it has lots of space to be tweaked against combo decks and win against them. At one point I had nearly 100% success rate against storm combo decks.
I mean, you can win against Storm. I went 2-0 against TES in a tournament for a Mox in Round 3 (in the winning bracket) because I went turn 2 Seismic Assault, and he attempts to go off. Nicely, I have 2-3 Lands in hand, and wait for him to get low, then kill him.
In the second game, I go second and Extirpate something relevant to slow him down, then keep Bolt mana up. He can't AdN deep enough, hits me for 18 off Tendrils while i have Dark Confidant on board. I proceed to beat him down from 35 or whatever and win at 1 Life.
Crazy things can happen, for sure. If you're worried about Combo, REB can help against Brainstorm setups, but you could also run Mindbreak Trap and Extirpate-effects, if nothing else.
-Matt
I think you might have killed aggro_zombies. I just heard a thud that must have been him flipping his desk down in Tucson.
"eggs... why'd it have to be eggs"
...?
I've beaten storm combo with this deck before.
If you take out a lot of your removal for discard and draw well, you too can beat storm combo.
It works 100% almost all the time, right?
But seriously not even Counterbalance decks or Team America decks have 100% win rates versus storm decks.
What did you put in your Aggro Loam deck?
Full playsets of Mindbreak Traps, Leyline of Sanctity, and loads of discard?
It's possible to just run well against storm combo. If you get lucky, they don't get lucky, and you have a sufficient amount of discard and tailored cards like Trap or Leyline, you can have a pretty good record against storm. It also helps if your storm players are not very good.
That said, it's not a typical thing. Probably 50% of your deck is still just straight-up dead against storm decks even after sideboarding (all non-Wasteland lands, Mox Diamond, Life from the Loam).
Clock (nacatls) + disruption (traps, discards, chalices=0) + wastelands.
Sure, I was dedicating my WHOLE sideboard to combo matchups, but this made me feel safe against them at that time.
I think wastelands are a bit underrated in combo matchups, they have won me lots of games against them by delaying them by 1-2 crucial turns.
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