That sounds ... awkward.
I would snap-keep your Hand #5. You have early removal vs Delver/Lackey/etc via Blood. You can lead Forest -> Top, upkeep spin, then either play more land that you find with Top, or draw a card you want then then play Verdant, crack for Swamp -> spin. There's a small chance you'll get dicked over and not find a 3rd land after Top + shuffle/Top, but I think the hand is strong enough that it's worth gambling that you'll find the 3rd land.
Edit for quote, since it kicked me to the first post of this page.
Originally Posted by Megadeus
I was thinking the same. Hand #5 is extremely solid, it does what Nic Fit does best: keeps the board clean while you ramp. If you can't find a land in your next 6 cards, you just did something incredibly mean in the past and you're now paying for it.
As for how to play BUG, it's difficult to explain over a forum. I can tell you that compared to BG, I rarely trigger an Explorer before turn 3 while I used to get Explorer triggers on turn 2-3 nearly all the time with BG.
Do you know what assuming does? It makes an ass out of you and me.
Get it...? Ass, u, me?
... ffs I was trying to be funny...
How do y'all playtest?
Also, I feel like compared to other versions, BUG wants to get to 7 to 10 mana. Not because our bombs cost that much, but because if our bombs are countered or removed, we rely on the best damn recursive engines in Legacy (or at least the most versatile) to control the board state and to recur our bombs to win. Like someone else said, BUG fit plays like a grindy control deck (or so it seems from goldfishing on my part).
EDIT: I need some sleep: started thinking Wild Cantor would be awesome as no-sac ramp in my list lol. Any suggestions for a useful 1-drop Zenithable nosac ramp?
Last edited by EpicLevelCommoner; 10-04-2012 at 02:04 AM.
Deathrite Shaman? It seems good colour wise and if it sticks it helps a lot in the mid-late game.
Yeah, you want one of Birds, Hierarch, or Deathrite. Any of them are playable options, IMO. Deathrite might not always make mana, but unlike the other two options he does more than just make mana. He's also a g/b Grim Lavamancer. It really depends on how reliable you want your mana generator to be. If you for sure want the mana, then go for Birds (probably over Hierarch).
I'll be honest, I don't actually playtest anymore. When I was really all-in on brewing the deck, I grinded it on Cockatrice with my locals against pretty much any deck they could/would throw at it. Now, though, I've become really disillusioned with Cockatrice because its randomization matrices just blow ass, so it isn't even "real" / worthwhile test data. I also have the benefit of weekly local events at the college here (although they rotate Legacy every other week), and I'm usually traveling to some legacy event on Saturday or other. So basically my testing is just playing events at this point. Probably not the best way to go about it in the abstract, but I like having a life >_> Also, Magic Theory goes a LONG way with this deck in particular, for some reason. I have a good grounding of the theory behind Nic Fit, so I can kind of skate by on that alone. Sometimes I have bad ideas that could have been revealed through testing...but meh.
I picked up a third Academy Rector at our local Modern Tournament last night. I am running 2 Diabolic Intent and 3 Green Sun. I tried to find Eladmri's Call but no one had any. I also forgot to get a second Baneslayer. I also got the Starved Rasulka. Just need to find Innocent Bloods before saturday. I think I'm going all in on Rector and Enchantments.
@Arianrhod: I dont get to play test at all anymore. Im taking my rector nic fit to SCG Cincinnati and I haven't played it in like 3 weeks except verses myself lol. So I am going off advice from people here and trying to watch the very few Nic-Fit videos that people post.
I had to get my Call of ebay and even there they aren't exactly plentiful. It's not exactly a required card though. If you can't get one I wouldn't sweat it.
What is this 'playtest' you speak of? :) Legacy in my area is barely a thing. I travel over an hour once a week to get to the 'local' shop that has legacy scheduled every Thursday. It hasn't fired in over a month. My Magic playing friends aren't interested in rigorous testing, so my play consists of the rare events that fire. Realistically, I could play more Vintage than I can Legacy. I suppose I should play Standard since you can play that anywhere, but Legacy >>>>> Standard IMHO.
I read reports on here and am green with envy at the 'small' 32-player turn outs. No clue how it is that Legacy in the Chicago area is as weak as it is. Hotsauce has decent turnout, but it's pretty far and Mondays stink. Oh well, I still love it so I keep trying :) And on that note I am heading out to the weekly event. Knock on wood for 8+ people.
You in the Cincy area? I'm from south of the river and my mtg group is going through its casual phase right now and am looking for some Legacy guys/gals.
Yay! Decent turnout today (12). Went 3-1 vs Maverick, RUG, UR Ninja, and OmniTell. The loss was to the Ninja deck and was just some less than good luck. I wasn't able to get any ramp going in G1 and he countered my zeniths. G2 I mulled to 5, kept a hand w/ Bayou + Tribe Elder. He wasted the Bayou, my next card was a plains, then he Thought Scoured a Carpet & Deed into my yard. We played a couple more games after since he thrashed me so quickly. I took those w/o issue.
Good job! Give us some details about OmniTell, if you can recall them -- a lot of people in this thread have been struggling with beating that matchup, so if you can relate your experiences therein, it might help them improve, or figure out a line that actually works, at least.
Unrelatedly, how scary is that Ninja deck, actually? I keep hearing rumors about it like it's basically mono-U but doesn't run FoW, etc, but that it's actually good somehow. Every time I see a list it just looks like a heaping pile, but I guess it must be better than it looks?
No I'm from columbus, I'm going to Cincy for SCG and I have family there. May come down more often though.
Ok now this is the time i will post what my Nic-Fit build was, i already acquired my Abrupt Decay. Below is my current list that will be playing this coming sunday.
Punishing Nic-Fit
Creatures : 13
4 Veteran Explorer
2 Huntmaster of the Fells
2 Scavenging Ooze
1 Deranged Hermit
1 Eternal Witness
1 Thragtusk
1 Broodmate Dragon
1 Olivia Voldaren
Spells : Instant/Sorcery/Planeswalker/Artifact : 25
4 Punishing Fire
4 Green Sun Zenith
4 Cabal Therapy
3 Sensei's Divining Top
3 Pernicious Deed
3 Abrupt Decay
2 Maelstrom Pulse
2 Liliana of the Veil
Lands:
4 Grove of the Burnwillows
4 Verdant Catacombs
3 Forest
2 Bayou
2 Wooded Foothills
2 Swamp
1 Taiga
1 Badlands
1 Mountain
1 Volrath's Stronghold
1 Phyrexian Tower
Sideboard :
3 Carpet of Flowers
3 Hymn to Tourach
2 Duress
2 Slaughter Games
2 Extirpate
2 Pyroblast
1 Red Elemental Blast
Get lucky breaks? :) We actually played 4 games since we finished before the other game that going on to determine prize payout. I went 4-0 against him. Game 1 he was on the play (I only played one game on the play all night) and let Island, Go. I go Swamp -> Therapy. He Brainstormed in response so called Emrakul to try to shuffle away whatever he hid. It whiffed revealing something like double Ponder, Ancient Tomb and some land. Turn 2 he Ponders, I Explorer & flashback Therapy to take away his other Ponder. Then he proceeds to draw tons of land while I am durdling trying to find a beatstick (w/ an Arena and SDT in play and still I draw nothing). Eventually he's able to S&T in a Grisselbrand. I played a Deed w/ seven land on board and a P.Tower in hand. So I play my Tower, and crack the Deed. He draws 7, going to five in the process. We durdle a turn or two more, and he cracks a fetch to shuffle away some cards. I played an Elspeth and make a dude. He casts S&T again, this time for Omni, I drop a Rector. Omni into Emrakul. I'm at 16 w/ a crap ton of land, Rector, a soldier, and Elspeth. He's got a spaghetti monster and can't attack me on the extra turn because he can't do lethal and can't annihilate enough permanents that I'd have to destroy the soldier + Elspeth. So he passes the turn, I Tower the Rector for Faiths Fetters onto Emrakul, jump the soldier and hit for lethal.
Game 2 he goes Island, Preordain. I figured he had a S&T target, but not S&T, so I go Swamp, Therapy and name Omni, hitting two :) T2 not much happens, T3 he drops a Lotus Petal, cracks it for a red, and Wishes for S&T. I Vindicate his Underground Sea leaving him with just an Island and hope he doesn't draw a sol land to cast S&T with. He doesn't so on T4 I Memoricide S&T. Considering he'd already wished for the one in his board that was game.
G3 not much happened T1 that I recall. T2 he hit me w/ a Thoughtseize seeing Explorer and Nethervoid. He took the Void. I top decked a Witness shortly thereafter, getting Void back, casting it successfully the next turn. Then it's slowly ramping to overcome the void while he can't do a whole lot. At one point he tapped his City of Traitors and played another land just to be able to pay for a Preordain :) Eventaully he got enough mana together to S&T putting in Omni, but even w/ Omni you still have to pay for Void. Basically taxed him out of the game.
Game 4 I don't recall. More successful Therapies.
There was a lot of fortunate top docks in these games. The things I really took away are that Nether Void rocks and wiffing on Therapy does not. I just got the Void yesterday too. When I got to the shop I saw a Storm deck and a Belcher deck. I'd been eyeing the Italian Void in the case for weeks, so I figured that 1) the price was good, 2) it was in good shape, 3) the event was actually going to fire, 4) it would be useful in the event, and 5) I am planning on some Legacy side events at the upcoming GP Chicago and I want it for that.
The Ninja deck is normally mono-U I think. This guy added R for Fire/Ice, Chain Lightning, and Lightning Bolt. It seemed a lot like UR Delver w/ Ninjas. I never saw any but he said he was also running Jaces Phantasm. G1 I lost because T2 I swung w/ my Explorer leaving me w/o a blocker. He EOT a Snapcaster which I'm like, "Uhh... WTF is going on here?" since he had nothing in the bin. What's going on is he Ninja'd in his Ninja and got himself a free card. And then played a Delver. I can't recall how my Explorer died, but I was shortly left w/o any blockers so he's getting all kinds of cards off that Ninja while he's countering all my GSZ. I had kept a marginal 6 card hand that was probably fine if he doesn't have the Ninja and get mad card advantage off it.
Game 2 I mulled to 5, keeping a hand w/ Elder + Bayou. I lead Bayou, he wastes it so I can't play the elder and I never did draw a forest after he blind flips delvers on both his subsequent turns.
We played a couple more which were uneventful wins for me. The Ninja costs 4, so it's costly to Deed away, but besides that it seems like any other Delver-centric deck. Stick a Deed to wreck their stuff, play and/or recur bombs until dead. Having a blocker up so they can't Ninjitsu is also good.
So yeah, Ninja + Snapcaster? Pretty sweet. Flash Snappy at EOT, then Ninja during combat. You get your Snapcaster back for later use AND a card. Probably only works G1 though.
I have managed to beat Omnitell with BUG fit, but it's no easy task. I was able to duress a show and tell, and then after he got another one with burning wish, I extirpated the one in the graveyard. Unlike sneak/show, without SNT they have to get to 10 mana to hardcast omni--which he actually did in one game since I had no clock at all.
So.. discard, extirpate/extraction effects, a clock, and luck are all required to beat that deck.
@Kabards
I'd love a report after Sunday. I've been toying around with a Punishing Fit list for a few weeks but I haven't gotten around to do any testing.
My list is a little different from yours - I cut Olivia and Deranged Hermit for Thragtusk2 and Thrun.
Could you link a list for interested parties?
From SCG Minneapolis.
Yeah tomorrow i will put a short tournament report after i got home, i'm also considering to put out Olivia if it doesn't work tomorrow
Why do you not run a Primeval Titan. I always thought it was a great addition to the deck. This way you have Broodmate for the immediate impact and Titan for getting 2 Groves or Stronghold/Grove the long, grindy game.
How comfortable are you without any Disenchant effects to tutor for? But maybe Abrupt Decay is enough, that would be an easy free slot.
Yeah Primeval Titan is also a good choice but if you want to go for Zenith to finish the game maybe you should go for Broodmate Dragon rather than Primeval Titan
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