UW Sanctuary (Helm/RiP combo)

[Spigore]

Abrupt Decay on Rest in Peace will not destroy Energy Field according to official ruling;

If Rest in Peace is destroyed by a spell, Rest in Peace will be exiled and then the spell will be put into its owner's graveyard.

Not to be a wiseguy, but just saiyan!

[alekill]

Do we know if anyone tried playing this at scg this weekend?

[ReinVos]

I mentioned Meddling Mage earlier as an answer to Abrupt Decay. It's useful in lots of combo match-ups and it's especially good because you probably name their number one removal spell. Junk decks will have both Swords and Decay so that will be rough but BUG lists or straight GB lists will have Abrupt Decay as their main removal spell and have a few outs to a resolved Meddling Mage naming Decay.

Meddling Mage is at it's best when you're trying to beat a card, rather than a strategy. Abrupt Decay is an example of this, as is Show and Tell.

[Poron]

Abrupt Decay on Rest in Peace will not destroy Energy Field according to official ruling;

If Rest in Peace is destroyed by a spell, Rest in Peace will be exiled and then the spell will be put into its owner's graveyard.

Not to be a wiseguy, but just saiyan!

Really? to break RiP would "exile" it because of the effect of RiP itself?
can we have a confirmation?

[Poron]

I mentioned Meddling Mage earlier as an answer to Abrupt Decay. It's useful in lots of combo match-ups and it's especially good because you probably name their number one removal spell. Junk decks will have both Swords and Decay so that will be rough but BUG lists or straight GB lists will have Abrupt Decay as their main removal spell and have a few outs to a resolved Meddling Mage naming Decay.

Meddling Mage is at it's best when you're trying to beat a card, rather than a strategy. Abrupt Decay is an example of this, as is Show and Tell.

good but risky calll. Who will play AD for sure? BUG and other black decks.

BUG plays 4 Innocent Blood as a must, Smallpox Ghastly Demise, Snuff Out

imho a creature is not an heavy answear. not to mention that any (just any) deck packs answears to creatures (StP, Lightning Bolt, REB, just infinite...) so that would be a natural target and it would "revive" lots of their dead cards..

Meddling Mage could be enourmous if only it was an enchantment (fetchable, playable 1x, safer, etc.)

edit: FOUND IT!! Nevermore just 1 mana too much argh!

[Hanni]

Meddling Mage is going to be alot better in the sideboard than in the maindeck. If someone isn't siding out their removal going into postboard games, it's only because they don't have anything else relevant to bring in.

A strong answer to Abrupt Decay is to just run more RIP's, and replay another one if the first one gets destroyed. Why durdle around tutoring for a protection enchantment? Shroud on enchantments doesn't even stop the bigger issues, like EE and Deed.

Nevermore does look like a nice addition though, since it can be tutored via E Tutor and gives you another 3cc spell for the Counterbalance curve. It's also much, much more versatile than Greater Auramancy.

I do have to question, at a certain point where people start dipping way too much into the enchantment control game, why one wouldn't just play Enchantress instead.

[Poron]

this is much more solid to me. massive use of blue, counterbalance, fast and reliable combo..

RiP(ped)Helm > Enchantress

more than pure control, my call is on the necessity of keeping our permanents on the field. this deck can't win in 1 turn, it needs 2 turn to set up the combo..

I'm also questioning myself what's the correct number of Helm

[Koby]

I ran 1 yesterday in an SCG IQ, and tutored for exactly once to win. I didn't feel I needed more than that. Playing with 20 lands will mean you rarely have 5 mana for Helm+activate unless you're already in a winning position. (ie, RIP + Energy Field)

[Greenpoe]

With this deck you could easily drop all the spot removal and just go to 4 Energy Field - after all, it increases the blue count, and if you have all basics, fetches and just 2 Tundra, they'll have a hard time dealing with just one Energy Field, let alone the second or third, or just one with the RiP online. Why bother with removing just one creature when you can invalidate their entire strategy, regardless of shroud/hexproof/protection? The answer is creatures like Dark Confidant, but because of that you'd still have SB removal and for the MD, I would increase the countermagic (adding either Daze or Counterspell) to deal with these problematic creatures as well as whatever else you might face along the way. I think that despite the drawback of Daze, you're still countering a spell for free, you can still hardcast it and it's still blue. The fact is that this deck just needs a little time to set up, then you can lay down your lock pieces and win.

[Poron]

because with Gaddock we can't land Helm and win...

[Freggle]

...why one wouldn't just play Enchantress instead.

Honestly, I think this is just comes down to what you are comfortable with playing.

An Enchantress deck with this combo is going to be relatively close to the competitive level of this deck.

Some days each one being higher than the other pending the meta.

I for one will be rocking the enchantress version because that is (at least for now) what I enjoy playing (a great deal.)

What I don't get is how are people considering Jace an acceptable wincon?

Typically you don't want an alt wincon that looses to the same hate. Jace can not be dropped under Gaddock Teeg, still looses to player shroud, and is weak to boards with tons of creatures with nothing to do (ahem! Energy Field)

...so what am I missing there?

Edit:

I ran 1 yesterday in an SCG IQ, and tutored for exactly once to win. I didn't feel I needed more than that. Playing with 20 lands will mean you rarely have 5 mana for Helm+activate unless you're already in a winning position. (ie, RIP + Energy Field)

Just an FYI I know I'm not going to convince Non-enchantress players to port this into an Enchantress shell, but enchantress naturally runs the ramp necessary to power a 5CMC win with relative ease. This is done for engine purposes, which just happen to overlap with this win.

[lochlan]

What I don't get is how are people considering Jace an acceptable wincon?

Typically you don't want an alt wincon that looses to the same hate. Jace can not be dropped under Gaddock Teeg, still looses to player shroud, and is weak to boards with tons of creatures with nothing to do (ahem! Energy Field)

Jace is definitely clunky, but IMO we do need a second win condition in the main. And I think it's a huge plus that Jace doesn't die to Enchantment removal, unlike the rest of the deck. I also like him for blowing up opposing Jaces.

As for your concerns, we do have Swords/Karakas/Porphyry Nodes/Detention Sphere to remove their creatures, including Teeg. If they do manage to get a creature on the board, as long as it's only one we can with with Jace/Humility, since we'll net +1 loyalty counter every turn with the fateseal ability. It seems like kind of a tall order, but this deck is so grindy and you have so much time to find your cards that Jace actually ends up being a bit better than he seems. But, yeah, still pretty clunky.

I like Luminarch Ascension out of the board as another win condition, but I don't know if I'd run it in the main. Regardless, I don't want to get blown out by Serenity or Reverent Silence and I can't think of a non-Enchantment win condition I like better than Jace.

[bowvamp]

I'm of the opinion that a manland plan is actually a pretty good idea in this deck. The reason being that if a deck like this wants to succeed it has to be tuned against creature strategies primarily. When you face another control deck, manlands really shine.

[Spigore]

Really? to break RiP would "exile" it because of the effect of RiP itself?
can we have a confirmation?

Rest in Peace on Gatherer

I like akatsuki's latest list at #82.
Still I think the full package of Tutor is a bit overdone. I really need to test the list and see what's up. Didn't have much time to play yet. After next weekend, I can feed some tournament reports to this thread.

Any other people who are having good results when taking this deck for a spin?

[Darkenslight]

Really? to break RiP would "exile" it because of the effect of RiP itself?
can we have a confirmation?

It's the exact same way that Samurai of the Pale Curtain works. The exact same way.

[Poron]

After some test, Energy Field is a 4 of.
We want always to see 2 in a match. (one is lost somehow, always)

Also Porphyry Nodes is not that helpfull unless it is landed at turn 1-2.

but packing just one makes this almost impossible (unless you waste a tutor. but to tutor just to gain time? mm)

Overall I find Energy Field, very often, even too often, not to be better than a Propaganda (goblin, tribal, maverick, etc.) + (4 Swords to Plowshares anyway)

Perhaps a split 2 Propaganda 2 Energy Field?

and yes: Jace and any other planeswalker are just terrible. EF and Propaganda just keep you safe, not your walkers... also after SB, when you pack 4 Leyline of Sanctity you are the only one safe from burns...
definitly no walkers here

last one from tests: I can't decide myself between Pithing Needle and Cursed Totem (both as 1x in MD). Perhaps I'm more prone to Totem
Did someone else lose his sleep here? :D

[Koby]

and yes: Jace and any other planeswalker are just terrible. EF and Propaganda just keep you safe, not your walkers... also after SB, when you pack 4 Leyline of Sanctity you are the only one safe from burns...
definitly no walkers here

last one from tests: I can't decide myself between Pithing Needle and Cursed Totem (both as 1x in MD). Perhaps I'm more prone to Totem
Did someone else lose his sleep here? :D

This is incorrect. Leyline of Sanctity WILL protect your planeswalkers from Burn spells, since they initially have to target a player before being redirected at a planeswalker you control.

As for Needle/Totem - I ran one Needle maindeck, and boarded a Totem for Maverick/DnT's. Didn't need to use it since i got paired up against 4 RUG Delver decks -_-

[Greenpoe]

After some test, Energy Field is a 4 of.
We want always to see 2 in a match. (one is lost somehow, always)

Also Porphyry Nodes is not that helpfull unless it is landed at turn 1-2.

but packing just one makes this almost impossible (unless you waste a tutor. but to tutor just to gain time? mm)

Overall I find Energy Field, very often, even too often, not to be better than a Propaganda (goblin, tribal, maverick, etc.) + (4 Swords to Plowshares anyway)

Perhaps a split 2 Propaganda 2 Energy Field?

and yes: Jace and any other planeswalker are just terrible. EF and Propaganda just keep you safe, not your walkers... also after SB, when you pack 4 Leyline of Sanctity you are the only one safe from burns...
definitly no walkers here

last one from tests: I can't decide myself between Pithing Needle and Cursed Totem (both as 1x in MD). Perhaps I'm more prone to Totem
Did someone else lose his sleep here? :D

But Propaganda sounds weak vs. Maverick. They just need to swing with one huge Knight.

I've been testing 4 Energy Field and been pretty happy with it. That said, there's no Karakas for the sake of the stronger manabase to make it harder to deal with the Field - which is reasonable given how common Wasteland is anyway. It's also really amusing to watch the struggle to deal with one Field, then I just drop another one. Field is a skill-intensive card, though - you have to figure out when the optimal time to play it is in each matchup.

[Poron]

Propaganda is way weaker and you're right. But also infinitly more solid. Also my version plays 4x Swords and 4x Rest in Peace.
the big Knight is never a problem.

At least 1xMD Propaganda for me

also great news about the planeswalker.. didn't really know that.
So, Leyline of Sanctity will save our planeswalkers from burns too? I start reconsidering the whole strategy then.. (with Web of Inertia it becomes a total lock)

[Poron]

the best part in the fun of playing this deck is how many players are not prepared to deal with enchantments at all..