Hello,
I have just come back from a 7-round/68-player Legacy tournament playing Combo Elves, but I did not have a good performance.
Here is the list I played (quite the same from my last post):
3 Gaea's Cradle
6 Forest
4 Elvish Visionary
4 Heritage Druid
4 Llanowar Elves
4 Nettle Sentinel
2 Priest of Titania
4 Quirion Ranger
1 Regal Force
4 Wirewood Symbiote
1 Crop Rotation
4 Glimpse of Nature
4 Green Sun's Zenith
2 Wooded Foothills
1 Pendelhaven
1 Dryad Arbor
2 Windswept Heath
3 Natural Order
1 Craterhoof Behemoth
1 Progenitus
1 Fauna Shaman
2 Misty Rainforest
1 Joraga Warcaller
SB: 3 Thorn of Amethyst
SB: 2 Krosan Grip
SB: 1 Scavenging Ooze
SB: 2 Faerie Macabre
SB: 3 Pithing Needle
SB: 1 Viridian Shaman
SB: 2 Choke
SB: 1 Gaddock Teeg
R1) UW miracle
G1: Counterbalance + Sensei’s Divining Top locks me early. Sooner than I expected he Entreat the Angels for 3x, and beats me twice to death.
G2: I was able to get Gaddock Teeg on the battlefield, but he fastly casts Vedalken Shackles, steals Gaddock, and uses it to kill my few creatures. When he’s done abusing my Gaddock he bounces it with Karakas and casts Jace, The Mind Sculptor. He keeps controlling the game and attacking with 1x Angel, until I’m dead.
0 -2
R2) Zoo
G1: I keep a hand with 2x Lands, NO and some elves, because I may cast NO T3. He starts with Wild Nacatl. I play Llanowar Elves. He Chain Linghtnings it and attacks. I cast two other elfs. He Arc Trails them, cast another Nacatl and attacks. He keeps removing my elves until it’s too late to cast NO.
G2 and G3: I played some elves and when possible I NO for Craterhoof Behemoth on one game and for Progenitus on the other one, and they get the game for me.
2 -1
R3) UR Delver
G1: I am able to combo with Glimpse of Nature on T4-5, get plenty of mana, and GSZ for a killer Behemoth.
G2: A T1 Delver of Secrets constantly eats my life, backed up with Tarmogoyf. I got the “bounce-block” for Goyf, with Wirewood Symbiote + any elf, to hold it a little. He cannot flip his other Delver for some turns. Finally, when I’m at 3 life, I am able to NO>Behemoth and deals lethal damage.
2 – 0
R4) UW Miracle
G1: I play some elves, he Terminus and I had no gas to recover, as he was beating me up with 3x Angels.
G2: I play some elves to beat him fastly. He Supreme Verdict. I try to assemble some creatures again, but my hate gets countered and his Angels overcomes my board.
0 - 2
R5) Maverick
G1: I play some elves. He gets a Mother of Runes, a Scryb Ranger, and 2x Knight of the Relicary online. I cast NO> Progenitus. He activates KotR three times (2x Knights + 1 Scryb ability) and throws a bunch of Fetchlands+Lands on his GY. His 2x KotR gets 10/10 and attacks, both having Protection from Green (because Scryb Ranger is a spoiler of plans!), and killing me before my 2nd Progenitus attack.
G2: My initial elves starts taking down his life, until he gets a Ethersworn Canonist and slows me down. He then gets a Ulvenwald Tracker and starts killing my elves. I play a Viridian Shaman too kill his Canonist, but it gets Protection from Green – I forgot about Mother of Runes! When I draw and cast a Krosan Grip for his Canonist, many elves of mine were already killed by his tracker. I got a Scavenging Ooze to regain some life and feed from my dead elves. He gets Umezawa’s Jitte online and there are some turns of friction until he finally can trespass my defense with his Pro.Green equipped attackers.
0 – 2
R6) Belcher
G1: On T1, I play a Fetchland and a Llanowar Elves. He gets plenty of mana, Burning Wishes for his black tutor that gets him Goblin Charbelcher, and them activates it to do 20+ damage to me.
G2: I mull to oblivion and find no hate, until I mull down to 3 cards. I play this game just for not having something better to do. T1 I play a Fetchland and a Nettle Sentinel. He generates many mana and storm until he Empty The Warrens, creating 22 goblins. Yeah, this one was a very very "fun" match to play.
0 – 2
R7) Esper Stoneblade
G1: I keep a hand with NO. On T2-3 I GSZ for Priest of Titania, to prepare to NO having 2 extra mana to cast it (for if he has Spell Pierce). I then NO > Behemoth, having other 4 creatures to attack for lethal.
G2: He gets and early Stoneforge Mystic fetching Batterskull. I keep some pressure with my elves, but he plays Sword of Feast and Famine. Then Jitte joins the party. Soon, I can not deal any longer with three equipment in play.
G3: As soon as this game starts, the judge announces the 5-turns counting down. I start with Llanowar Elves. He plays a disCARDS spell and gets my Glimpse of Nature. I play other Elves and Symbiote. He plays a Stoneforge Mystic that fetches a Batterskull, and next turn plays Engineered Plague for elves, cleaning almost all my board. But he can’t win before the 5 turns ends.
1 - 1
My results: 2 - 4 - 1
My position: 50°
Some thoughts:
- I was not sure of playing Combo Elves on this tournament because of the popularity of UW Miracle. I hate that MU! I think I have never won a game against this! I’m not playing it right yet...
- I think that maybe this version with Natural Order + Progenitus also wasn’t the better one for the metagame.
- I was not completely happy with some MD slots (Joraga Warcaller, and maybe a Priest of Titania or a Quirion Ranger), but since I had not much time for testing, I played it anyway.
- I wanted to have one Viridian Shaman MD but couldn’t fit one in. Maybe if I had made the changes from above…
- I was not satisfied with the SB either. At least I wanted one more Ooze to get in place of one Pithing Needle.
Albeit some misplays and/or bad choices of mine may have bothered you, I thank you for the reading.
Sincerely,
- André
Last edited by andrebonotto; 10-15-2012 at 10:30 AM.
I really think if you're going to play Elves in this environment, you have to play maindeck Gaddock Teeg. UW Miracles is too popular and too strong against creature decks. You can't ignore the match-up either.
Yeah, this was one of the ideas that I was thinking about before: get more into the white splash, in a version with Mirror Entity, and playing a Gaddock Teeg MD. In this version I was thinking about using Cavern of Souls (shuts down Counterbalance).Originally Posted by igri_is_a_bk
Couldn't get the Caverns, nor test the rest, so didn't build it...
But now there are some lists opting for the black splash, that seems to have interesting tools, and so I do not know which of these directions I will follow on the next lists...
The only way to protect Teeg is Mirror Entity + Symbiote, and UW plays 4 Swords, meaning it's more likely they'll have Swords than you'll have protection for him. That's why I think you'll need at least two. And this is where Fauna Shaman becomes good, because Teeg will shut off GSZ and Chord.
It sucks discard doesn't solve the problem, because Therapy would be the best splash card.
An option we discussed was to play multiple Teegs and Sylvan Safekeepers to protect them.
New Build:
So I realized that every time I had a priest I wanted it to be a visionary, so I splashed blue for coiling oracle and it's working out amazing...
2 Birchlore Rangers
4 Coiling Oracle
4 Elvish Visionary
2 Ezuri, Renegade Leader
2 Fyndhorn Elves
4 Heritage Druid
1 Joraga Warcaller
4 Llanowar Elves
4 Nettle Sentinel
4 Quirion Ranger
1 Regal Force
4 Wirewood Symbiote
Creatures [36]
2 Crop Rotation
4 Glimpse of Nature
4 Green Sun's Zenith
Spells [10]
2 Forest
2 Gaea's Cradle
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Tropical Island
2 Verdant Catacombs
Lands [14]
Edit: The synergy of oracle with symbiote is insaaane. It's just a better version of symbiote/visionary.
Since you're in blue, would it be viable to add Fauna Shaman, Vengevine and Intuition (maybe only on the sideboard). I don't know how you improve the Tempo matchup but with those in the sideboard, at least you can get a fighting chance.
I am convinced that WotC is "dumbing" the game because of all the stupid posts they come across on MTG-related forums
The tempo matchup tends to be in our favor as is. They run out of things to deal with all the elves pretty quick, and with coiling oracle, we get even more cards to overwhelm them with.
You want Visionary instead of Priest because you don't play Mirror Entity, which is a staple in my opinion.
How does the addition of Coiling Oracle improve the problem matches? If you just want more Visionary, play Multani's Acolyte and stay mono-green. You should probably be splashing white or black though. Definitely not blue.
Hello Elves Thread!
My girlfriend is trying to get into this wonderful world of magic the gathering and I am trying to be a good boyfriend and guide her in the right direction of being a better player. She is extremely smart and extremely competitive so I think I am going to buy her a basic Elves! deck to get her started...right now we have been drafting and playing the commander precons.
Without breaking the bank I have built this list as an entry to combo elves with the basis on genesis wave instead of glimpse of nature(because the 4 glimpses cost as much as the rest of the deck) and I wanted to post it here to see if I was missing any big "budget" views on the deck.
Any feedback is appreciated and I want to spend about $100.
12 Forests
1 Dryad Arbor
4 Wirewood Lodge
4 Green Sun's Zenith
3 Genesis Wave
1 Staff of Domination
4 Elvish Visionary
4 Lanowar Elf
4 Heritage Druid
4 Nettle Sentinel
4 Birchlore Ranger
4 Priest of Titania
4 Wirewood Symbiote
4 Quirion Ranger
1 Regal Force
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Ezuri, Renegade Leader
The basic premise of the deck seems simple but I wanted to post it to you guys before I bought the cards.
After she becomes competent with this list I can get her the glimpses.
Questions I have:
Is quirion ranger any good?
What about the joraga mana elf/elf lord?
What about the archdruid?
Finally, wirewood hivemaster seems decent in a genesis wave list. thoughts?
Thank you guys!
Ahh!! I have discovered Craterhoof Behemoth!
"eggs... why'd it have to be eggs"
Hey lavafrogg,
I build a ElfWave Combodeck a while ago as i have no use for my genesiswave playset since Scars draft, maybe you want to take a look. It's been way off compared to your list but the combination off prismatic lens and genesis wave makes pretty consistent turn 3 kills, plus the list is superbudget. It's more modern-orientientated though and may be tweaked at some point with legacy elves staples.
Creature (28)
2x Acidic Slime
4x Arbor Elf
2x Craterhoof Behemoth
4x Elvish Archdruid
4x Elvish Pioneer
4x Eternal Witness
4x Llanowar Elves
4x Wood Elves
Sorcery (4)
4x Genesis Wave
Artifact (4)
4x Extraplanar Lens
Land (24)
24x Forest
Edit: -1 Behemoth +1Akromas Memorial is the way to go.
@(nameless one) and k2thej
Seriously, play blue. Play Intuitions, Vengevines and Fauna Shamans. The Miracles matchup improves dramatically. You're aggro/creature matchups don't really get any worse and Negates out of the board have been insane.
I would not play any version of mono green or GW in this particular meta. GU or GB are where it's at.
My latest black list for those interested:
Lands:
3 Bayou
1 Dryad Arbor
2 Forest
2 Gaea's Cradle
1 Misty Rainforest
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Windswept Heath
Creatures:
3 Birchlore Rangers
3 Deathrite Shaman
4 Elvish Visionary
2 Ezuri, Renegade Leader
1 Fauna Shaman
2 Fyndhorn Elves
4 Heritage Druid
2 Llanowar Elves
4 Nettle Sentinel
2 Priest of Titania
2 Quirion Ranger
1 Regal Force
1 Viridian Shaman
4 Wirewood Symbiote
Spells:
1 Crop Rotation
4 Glimpse of Nature
4 Green Sun's Zenith
Sideboard:
3 Buried Alive
3 Cabal Therapy
3 Faerie Macabre
1 Mortarpod
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Umezawa's Jitte
3 Vengevine
Honestly, crop rotation seems like a dead card. In my list mana is almost never the limiting factor, it's cards: you're hindering your creature count for disruption in black, I'd rather have another one drop over the crop rotation to keep drawing cards.
Also, Ezuri seems really not so great--he doesn't win the turn he comes into play and the thing you really care about (Swords/Terminus) he doesn't really prevent. Craterhoof Behemoth on the other hand, I'm flabbergasted as to how anyone when this card was leaked tried to downplay how apeshit insanely strong this card is in elves. Keep your creatures without summoning sickness away from the other ones, generate 8-10 mana, find him somehow, and win the game. He's easier to cast than emrakul by days, you can GSZ him for god's sake. I mean, I'm sitting here gold fishing, last game I had no glimpse in hand, but through maximizing my creature output I was able to generate 10 mana to living wish for a behemoth, drop it, and with him + 2 elves swing for 8*3 + 1 + 1 + 5 = 31 trampling damage on turn 3. That's literally the lowest turn 3 damage I've been able to produce with him. Turn 4 or 5 usually escalates into the hundreds if I'm styling or 50-60 if I'm just playing to win.
Everyone should be playing Craterhoof Behemoth over or in addition to every other win condition. He wins the turn he comes into play every single time. If they terminus your board you're fucked regardless and Emrakul or Mirror Entity aren't going to fix that any more than Behemoth would have. Not only that, usually, you don't even need his attack to win.
Bringing in Craterhoof Behemoth is also great because you can finally drop Regal Force. It's a clunky card that people include as a tutor target these days because everyone always has. He's unnecessary. Craterhoof Behemoth costs 1 more and instead of drawing you cards just wins you the game. He is by far, by far the best win condition I've ever seen in this deck. I'm also not really a huge fan of the buried alive vengevine plan, it takes up a lot of your sideboard which could be used to fight against decks that will wreck you--6 slots is too many.
I'm perfectly willing to try a split of Ezuri and Craterhoof. I've won plenty of games the turn I play Ezuri. It doesn't take that much to overrun a few dudes a couple times to win the game. People only start with 20 life. I will definitely test Craterhoof though.
The six slots for Vengevine ARE for the decks that wreck us. Don't know if you noticed, but Miracles is pretty damn good against us. Vengevines make the matchup soooo much easier. That's the thing with Elf Combo, it's favored against most of the fair decks, Miracles being the exception. It loses to faster combo and graveyard based decks. The Therapies are great against combo and the Vengevines are insane against Miracles.
Ezuri + 2 activations is still like 11-12 mana compared to 8-9 for less damage on a smaller body. Ezuri doesn't have haste.
Graveyard based decks aren't really a thing to deal with too badly with 3-4 deathrite shamans and a maindeck ooze. The vengevine plan does what against miracles? Just puts them on a real short clock? I guess I can get behind that. Do you essentially board out the glimpse combo for BAVV?
Why do vengevines make the matchup easier? They get their strength from recursion but don't recur if swords or terminus-ed.
This was something that crossed my mind as well. My answer in my head was that a single unabated swing by the vengevines will put the opponent to about 6 life post-fetches. This puts them on essentially a 0 turn clock and are required to be answered or lose, which while it might always feel that way is usually not the case.
This. And for the fact that you can simply dump them in the yard and leave them there. Just kill them with elves or your combo. If they answer that, they still have to answer some angry vegetables. The Vengevines allow for so much play. It can be hard to know when to run them out and kill them or let them chill in the yard. If they're swordsing your Vengevines, they aren't swordsing your Symbiotes and other combo pieces. If they get Terminused, they're very easy to find and dump in the yard again. Whether it's Buried Alive, Intuition, Fauna Shaman or GSZ, it's very easy to find some hasty attackers and rebuild post sweeper.
Dp
I agree with HoneyT here. In the new Meta of u/w miracles, intuition+Vengevine seems like the best answer. Mainly because it won't get easily Counterbalance. Only problem is Cage and Surgical Extraction out of the board.
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