I was PMing with GoboLord and ScatmanX about SB strategies, specifically whether to play K-Grip or Ancient Grudge in a SB. I noticed something that I think is worth including on the thread.
6 Atlanta
2 Cincinnati
0 Providence
I took the liberty of scanning through the StarCitygames Archives for the past 3 events. Back in September in Atlanta there were 6 U/W Control or SnT decks in the Top 16. A week later in Cinicinnati there were only 2 U/W Control // SnT decks in top 16. Last weekend in Providence there were NONE. Zero. Null. Nada.
Meanwhile, artifacts are becoming more popular. Caleb Durward won Cincinnati with an Artifact deck. There was also a White Weeney/Death and Taxes deck that made Top 4 of that event which had bunches o' Vials and Revokers and equipment. Artifacts were heavily featured in last week's 2nd place 12 post deck (Cursed Totems and Pithing Needles in the SB). StonebladeBlade decks are coming back and were heavily featured in the Top 16 of Cincinnati.
It seems like now might be the time to start bringing back the Grudge.
Not to mention D&Ts victory at SCG Portland a month back. Deck's rising up.
Hi,
I guess I can ask this now when you're starting to discuss Grip vs Grudge - I'm on a monored list (for budgetpurposes) and have been thinking, what can I actually do against a Moat? We have a player who likes to pimp in our metagame who I'm fairly sure plays one...
If you're monored: don't forget the clock while playing through swords and termini, shut him off doublewhite with ports and try to get the last dmg with siege-gang and/or sharpshooter+prospector.
If you need a spell out, chaos warp and anarchy are your options.
Hi,
I play gobbos since Apocalypse, it has been a long time and I really like this green people.
I play in Brazil, the field is a bit different, but we have to deal with white enchantments now and then, I usually use, in monoRed, Anarchy.
I was not using it but with the new UW Sanctuary (Helm/RiP combo) we have to deal with enchantments in some way. Last game I played
agains one, it used Enlightened Tutor for Moat, what I usually can counter with siege gang, sharpshooter and Lightning crafter, but then he goes for humility.. in the other game he Energy Field+Rest in piece turn 3.. Its impossible to come back from this in monoRed, even Rg goblins will only have a chance in G2.
He plays a lot of basic lands, so his fetchs always found island and plains. Its really a tough game. I hope someday Enlightened Tutor will get banned too LoL.
By the way, very nice primer GoboLord. We have one in ligamagic.com, that is a website for brazilians, and I read a lot of yours to help me build that primer.
Against Moat your outs are:Originally Posted by berry
- Anarchy
- Chaos Warp
- Shooter/Siege Gang/Prospector shannenigans (Krenko helps to deal a lot of dmg)
- Kiki-Jiki + Skirk Prospector + Lightning Crafter or Goblin Sharpshooter "infinite" loop
- Kill them before they get it down
- Waste and Port the hell out of them, so they're unable to get to 4 mana, or double W.
- Play some odd tech, like Voracious Dragon. Even Rakdos Charm can get in the last points og dmg by surprise if they Miracle Entreat for 4-5 angels.
Super Bizarros Team. Beating everything with small green dudes and big waves.
Looks like we know to beat a Moat.
If you are not playing Thalia you are doing it wrong.
Calls for banning are almost always the scrubs way out. Real men view a challenge as something to overcome, a puzzle to solve, an opportunity to be had, and the source of evolution.
Hahahahahahahaha.
Let'ssee if anyone actually falls for this.
Super Bizarros Team. Beating everything with small green dudes and big waves.
Sure you can win tournaments without Thalia but look at the tournament reports of the winners: they played not often against combo. my assumption is that a goblin deck with Thalia can win those games and that the reason she is the bomb :-)
Why in the world would you play Thalia in goblins? I assumed SMR was joking, maybe you're joking too? :o
Combo will often win before you drop your Thalia.
All this trolling and the "wow you didn't know how to win against Moat?" aside I still think this deserves at least some consideration because like a man a few posts above me mentioned, I too have an Energy Field/RIP-combo running around in my meta. But Anarchy would be your guys removal of choice then? Guess it actually might be worth a SB-slot.
that is Not true. I won many many games against Storm behause of Thalia.
Dredge and Reanimator regualrly need 2-3 turns to win and Thalia will give them problems if it comes down on turn two.
Omni Tell is also really slowed down.
So yes: Thalia is the bomb. Before the troll comments I suggest reading the last few pages and the tournament report of gobolord where he tested Thalia and found it great.
i have been playtesting against 12 post a lot in MWS lately, and i must say that matchup is very hard to win against. any tips in playing against this matchup?
Turn 1 lackey or vial + mana denial.
If that's a thing on your meta, Anarchy and ReBs should help you. If you can splash, Krosan Grip should deal the deal.
Never said it wasn't. Actually right now I support Thalia. But saying "If you are not playing Thalia you are doing it wrong" it's freaking funny. Heard that about Piledriver, Warchief and others before, and it's almost never true.
Super Bizarros Team. Beating everything with small green dudes and big waves.
Those are combo decks we also have a chance against without Thalia... I'm talking about Belchor, Ant and the likes; it's not like those have completely disappeared. Unless you already have a lackey on the board with enough steam in your hand I doubt any of those decks mind waiting another turn before they can combo. Don't forget that 50% of the time Thalia will come down after their second turn. You should run 4x Thalia for that and know that you are facing combo in order to actually mulligan into her.
I think Thalia is a meta-game call and not THE WAY this deck SHOULD be build. If there is a reference list at all, it would be something like Jim Davis' list. However it's still based on the meta game (Star city doesn't have as much combo as (west) Europe has) and Jim is super experienced with that list.
I don't care if Gobolord found it great (arguments stand and fall on their own - so I don't care who said it). I wouldn't use Thalia, I think she looks terrible.
I'd need to splash white to fit her in my deck and I could run thorn of amethyst which does the same thing and I wouldn't need to splash white. Not only that, but I could put more than one thorn of amethyst down whereas I could only drop 1 Thalia.
So if everyone is being serious now and telling me that somehow Thalia is better than thorns, I'd really like to know why.
I think because Thalia is a beater, you can cheat it into play by Aether Vial or play it with Cavern of Souls without any fear of counter spells.
And also i don't think that is really too easy have more than 1 thorn in play, it can be easily countered and the second one will cost 3...
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