Bojuka ? You must be refering to Boseiju I suppose : This sideboard slot is pretty efficient nowadays. Very few Miracles decks run the full Wasteland Set. A lot tend to run only 2 or cut them to run a lone Dust Bowl. Against such compositions, Boseiju ensure you'll squeeze the critical Reanimation or Show and Tell, even when facing active Counterbalance.Originally Posted by phazonmuant
Those deck being quite slow, CITB Tapped clause is not really an issue.
Shit happens. Fortunatly, the three opponents that beat the crap out of me were good players and real gentlemen. It would have just sucked to be dreamcrushed by total douchebags.
Furthermore, in all fairness, I've had my share of nice draws so far, so, well... Karma and stuff :)
Thoughtseize / Cabal Therapy split : Seize is really the best pinpoint discard, no question about it. But, sadly, NLR is not as resilient to life loss than say Past in Flames ANT : In my experience, you need to take-off at +12 life to be safe with Griselbrand from pretty much any kind of board state. Against Aggro MU, Seize will help delaying their drops or clearing the way but in multiple, the life loss will often complicate the future course of action or result in dead cards in hand.
Given that I don't want to run the full set, I found the lone Cabal Therapy to be a really good complement to the three Thoughtseize, as you often just wish they don't hold FOW to prevent your take-off and will simply go for that. I don't need to stress out the flexibility and real trickyness of Therapy as a skill tester : A Caleb article on CF summarizes really well all that.
A singular application though : Sometime, post Instant Reanimation, being able to simply sac your creature to reuse it the very next turn also provides a nice trick.
Stifle x 2 : It depends on the situation but I do not find myself wishing for a Stifle all that often. Sure, when you can't reanimate Griselbrand and Karakas is in play, or when Scavenging Ooze is out there with one green up, those are some of the times you are reaaally desperate for your Stifle. The vast majority of the time, the card is simply good in and out of itself, but not one of the missing pieces you ask for. I've tried 1 Stifle and found it not reliable given that you'll draw 7 or 14 to neuter opposing Karakas/Maze for the win. 3 or 4 Stifle often lead to dead cards as one Stifle drawn is more than enough for what we intend to do with it.
I could easily see the point to run 3 Stifle MD with the intention to go transformationnal post board with something along those lines :
4 Wasteland
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Tombstalker
1 Thoughtseize
1 Stifle
1 Bloodghast
That way the deck could turn into a non graveyard dependant UB Denial beatdown. An option to consider in testing.
I admit, my heart & deck lean more toward the TinFins build. I like cheating Griz in, drawing 14 and winning on the spot. Nonetheless, there's stuff to learn here (the pro-Stifle arguments are rather persuasive, for ex). On the other hand, Dark Ritual isn't making the cut over here. If you draw a bunch off Griz, DR is almost essential for using all the fresh spells. So, I'm guessing draw 7 is the usual (probably the limit if you used reanimate)? I know I play Tendrils of Agony, which is beyond the scope of this thread, but I end up finishing things much more often with a dual Griz / Emmy attack anyway. Aren't you tempted to try to end it the same turn Griz hits play instead of having to pass the turn?
Also, I know there's a lot of variables like match-up and availability/luck, but about how often is Griz the 1st fatty to hit the battlefield for this deck?
Since several people here also browse/post in the TinFins thread, I'd like to ask about the comparison. I know several of the TinFins builds are light on protection, which could dissuade some. But assuming a UB TinFins build w/ 8 protection spells, what do you find the most compelling reason to prefer this reanimator build? I could perhaps see that essentially dropping the acceleration / ToA from TinFins to add more consistency / protection / disruption can be a good trade. Could you see a viable middle ground that doesn't run Reanimate?
First of all, this deck doesn't (-and really shouldn't-) run Reanimate as a Reanimation Spell. Goryo's Vengeance and Shallow Grave being favored for the exact same reason Tin Fins runs them and Animate Dead for Reanimation #8~10 (dodges Flusterstorm, doesn't alter your life total nor give any kind of advantage to your opponent a la Exhume). So draw 14 is in order (though drawing 7 is often both sufficient and safer).
Given that Griselbrand will be the Reanimation Target a rough 80~85% of the time (with all the cantrips, reaching him or entomb is not that hard), you will often draw 7 after reanimation and attack. Passing the turn in that conditions is really easy : At that point, you got permission in hand (at least 1 FOW), a target in the bin (discarded in excess during cleanup) and plenty of ways to ensure you'll resolve a second (and lethal) reanimation. I really don't feel any need to squeeze a win on the spot.
If you reanimate Griselbrand EOT, well, never mind what I said earlier, draw 14 and kill after you untap :)
Sadly as I told phazonmuant, I don't see a neutral ground to explore between Tin Fins and NLR, as they differ on key defining aspects of their respective strategies :
Dark Rit helps TF explode and kill early - NLR rejects it for being inherently inconsistant.
NLR runs a lot of protection as it's killing slower than TF which doesn"t run all that much protection due to explosiveness.
NLR runs Jin Gitaxias to complement Griselbrand, TF doesn't need it at all and run kill spells such as Tendrils.
It would be possible to post board transform one into another but that would be a waste of SB slots as the two decks also share a lot of their vulnerabilities :)
Yeah. Sorry. Too much thread hopping before I finally posted. Whole-heartedly agree it doesn't belong in this deck!
However, I'm surprised Animate Dead gets the 8th reanimate spot instead of Goryo's Vengeance #4.
Also, I appreciate that Dark Ritual doesn't always synergize w/ Careful Study or FoW. Nonetheless, as long as Daze doesn't make the cut for the protection spots, I'd still say DR would be my 1st choice of acceleration over Lotus Petal.
On another note, I notice traditional reanimator typically runs 17-18 lands. The latest list of NLR I saw posted here runs 15 lands and 3 Petals. I'm not so sure you can sub accel for lands 1-for-1. I run 15 lands in TinFins, but then again, I have 9ish acceleration. I'm even tempted to run at least 1 Peer Through Depths in place of a Ponder spot, but keep coming back to Ponder not because of casting cost, but because I still find myself fishing for lands.
Is Karakas a possibility here as an anti Karakas/Thalia tool? I see ANT, S&T and tradiitional reanimator start using it sometimes.
I know PImp and Hapless Researcher didn't make the final cut here. I noticed an unusual vulerability about running those type of creatures in this deck... a simple bolt (or similar card) can make Shallow Grave misfire! Did that go into the decision process?
Careful Study's effectiveness diminishes as the creature count dwindles. With only 7 critters in the latest posted build, perhaps only 3 instead of 4 are justified? You really don't want to see multiples.
One of my first drafts of the deck I considered viable and tournament worthly was all 4 and 4 on Instant speed reanimation spells. Practicing, I began noticing that despite their similarities I found shallow Grave a tad more efficient than its Goryo's dish best served cold counterpart. No targeting plus the old "Surgical resolves, retain priority, Entomb in response" (A.K.A, SR,RP,EiR, A.K.A couldn't find a worst acronym I swear) trick are keys to greater resilience.
Note aside : This is why post board if you maintain the Reanimation routine, you must always Shallow Grave EOT if the SR,RP,EiR is a valid scenario : Griselbrand will often be your reanimation target, and if you are able to entomb for Jin to Nuke your smart Extirpate/Surgical opponent to punish him for messing with your plans, you should try and do so.
Given that the 4th Goryo's Vengeance doesn't attract me all that much (I could understand very well some may feel a little different on that matter) and that 9 Reanimations is a magic number I find hard to mess with, the remaining good options were very limited :
Reanimate : Not ideal as seen earlier
Exhume : A good candidate to SR,RP,EiR (worst acronym ever, told you) but in my Maverick/Bant ridden meta, I saw myself forcing Knights of the Reliquary out way too often to even consider giving the access to Karakas back to my opponent while Exhuming my stuff. Any meta other than that could prove a fine home for Exhume.
Animate Dead : Interesting in that it dodges Flusterstorm, can give you access to your opponents dead creatures (during BOM I bashed to bits an infortunate opponent that thought he had game after extracting my 3 targets. Long story short, his own Vendilion Clique turned AWOL), comboes well with Stifle (Stifling leave the Battlefield trigger is one of the many tricks you can pull out) and has a slim to none drawbacks.
Corpse Dance / Necromancy : A little overpricy, meh.
I will try and test another time a build based on Dark Ritual if you have a list tuned for it. Only idiots don't challenge their convictions.
I don't really see Petal and DR on the same fonctionnalities : I totally agree with you on DR not being 1 for 1 Vs. a land. Petal really acts as a land that can be put into the battlefield cheating on the one land per turn rule with the drawback of being sacrificed for its mana. It's not as persisting as a real land for sure, but can provide a little safe boost were DR would provide a huge boost without acting at all as a land. Two really different kinds of acceleration indeed.
Same as above : If you have a list in mind that dodge the manabase stability problem, I'd be sincerily glad to try and help tuning it. There's plenty of building space around white : Chant/Silence of course but also really neat things I'd love to try out as Aethermage's Touch or Loyal Retainer (Iona and Elesh Norn would be such houses in this deck and LR would help it a lot to be viable).
You totally figured it out sir. Those to little guys were tested and backfired from time to time. A lot of work around here involves reducing vulnerabilities not inducing them. I love PImp and HR, but they could make the final cut.
4 Brainstorm and 3 Ponder help a lot in reaching the Reanimation-Target-in-Hand situation (I can't remember a time where S&T deck wouldn't dig their own grave by casting their namesake Sorcery aginst NLR). I don't mind getting 2 or 3 CS in one given game as one will turn to Force pitching material. This card is easy to replace, adds to the blue count and I can't convince myself to drop a functional dumper for say, the 4th Ponder ? I could be wrong here and would be pleased to be proved so.
So, now the duty is on you : I'd like to see what you got in store on the concept and would be pleased to discuss on DR or white oriented versions of NLR. This Timmy/Johnny/Spike monstrosity of a deck is a real pleasure to share.
Well, here's my try at a more measured approach than TinFins. It's not tournament tested, so I'm not sure how it will perform. God, I miss the explosiveness of Dark Ritual! But I too have decided for this type of build that Lotus Petal is better than DR. I opted for 2x Intuitions as an additional back-up to Entomb instead of more fatties and Careful Study. Also note the 1x Karakas is in a spell slot. Not everyone will agree w/ my green splash choice, I'm sure. But Berserk fits so perfectly, I couldn't resist!
2 Island
1 Swamp
1 Karakas
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Polluted Delta
1 Tropical Island
3 Underground Sea
4 Lotus Petal
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
3 Griselbrand
4 Entomb
4 Shallow Grave
4 Goryo's Vengeance
1 Berserk
4 Brainstorm
2 Ponder
3 Careful Study
2 Intuition
2 Daze
4 Force of Will
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Stifle
1 Abrupt Decay
Who has two thumbs and started this thread? This guy -> Ppa0. OrGy and everyone who has tested/played/made their own version of this deck, I say to you, right on and righteous! I have not been playing since I made this tread but I am getting back into magic and I think I wanna make this deck, so keep up the good work tweaking, testing and playing this deck. More tourney results yo!
I may have underestimated Loyal Retainers and Cavern of Souls.
If in the normal plan of Shallow Grave/Goryo's V, we want extra mana to pay for Daze/Spell Pierce etc., then LR + CoS is just as fast and can't be stopped with countermagic!
I've gotta brew some more!
@Dameus :
Regarding the list you posted, don't you think that Berserk is a really good definition of the danger of cool things ?
I mean, yes, given you get an access to green you can pack it maindeck, as well as Life from the Loam or tarmogoyf for that matter. But that surely doesn't mean you should.
Berserk only pulls its weight as you have successfully reanimated a Griselbrand (as Emrakul is not a illegible target) : In that case, congrats, you just won, without any relevance of Berserk. If not, well, Berserk is a dead card anyway.
Karakas seems to be thrown out in your list: you play a miser one, with nothing to get it in you hand. I'm not really sure that it would prove stellar without a great deal of luck involved
:)
That being said I would gadly insist on a green splash being worthy post board to gain access to Abrupt Decay that proves itself really efficient against Counterbalance, Knight of the Reliquary, Scavenging Ooze and the major part of GY/Legend hates (with the notable exception of Karakas).
@ Ppa0 : Yup buddy, seems you were legit to put this list out there as its latest incarnations are both competitive and fun to play. Props !
I do need to step aside from competition for a little while but barring a major metagame shift, I'll be playing NLR again when I'll be back on tracks.
1st, the green splash is mainly for Abrupt Decay. It's only after I've already decided to splash, that Berserk enters the picture. I knew some would consider it a "win more" card. But it's only a 1 of anyway and there's plenty of opportunities to pitch it if not needed (Brainstorm/Careful Study). In its defense, while I don't have a lot of experience with this deck, I can say from my Sneak/Omni experience, that having a Griz on the table is not an auto-win nearly as often as I'd like! Especially, with this slower version (compared to TinFins), there should be a decent number of times that having Griz go Berserk with an additional draw 7 or 7 life could make a difference between winning and losing. It's also a nice response to StP when your Griz doesn't even get to swing and you know you'll have to survive a couple more turns. Afterall, even if you draw a FoW w/ Griz, it doesn't change the board state and fast aggro decks could have you up against a wall already.
As for Karakas, no doubt with only 1 that can't be tutored, it will require some luck (a little less post-board, as I'd have 1-2 more in SB). I'd rather have 1 out than no outs (that's always the way I think), even if it's not reliable. I want to play more cards than this deck has room for. Especially, if this deck were to go the route of adding Loyal Retainer's, Grisly Salvage and Living Wish might then become an option, where you'd have a better chance of seeing it. But of course, the mana base would become even further extended! And I'm not ready to suggest a build along those lines.
In any event, Karakas and Berserk aside (which I consider minor / personal preference issues), the main point I wanted to get feedback on was my choice of running fewer fatties, adding Intuition to compensate some, and having a couple extra MD slots to further compensate for any consistency loss.
I owe you an apology on overlooking the part of your list you truly wanted feedback on. I'll get to that in a few lines.
I'm sincerely surprised reading that a reanimated Griselbrand is "not an auto-win nearly as often as you'd like". Of course, at times Griselbrand underperforms, but in the vast majority of situation, its presence grants an overwhelming advantage. I frankly fail to see a good reason to include Berserk in a list as tigh as NLR, especially given that it only interacts with 3 Griselbrand (barring some borderline scenarii involving Berserking opp creatures to get rid of them).
Furthermore, people should be reminded that STP on Griselbrand (given you are at +7 Life and not facing a lethal board) is largely irrelevant : -1 card for them + 7 cards for you (minus the card you spent to reanimate Griselbrand), that is one hell of a deal.
On your choice to run Intuition, I must admit neither my teamates nor I did try it : The main reason is that it seemed a little to expensive. We never tried Forbidden Alchemy, 3 CC Instant Reanimation (Corpse Dance, Necromancy) under the same assumption.
Well, to say the least, 3 mana is a huge amount for a deck running less than 20 mana sources (3 or 4 of them being Petals). We feared that to efficiently support higher CC spells, we would have to increase the number of lands, thus reducing the flex slots. This reflexion was strongly reinforced with the inclusion of the lone (and stellar) Darkblast in the MD, which took the last real flex slot.
An idea could be to suppress entirely Carefull Studies for 1 intuition and 2 Sol lands, but I'm not sure the price is worth the effort.
I used to run a very similar deck concept back when Jin-Gitaxias was spoiled, running Jin-Gitaxias + Emrakul. The main problems of that build were that
I Main deck
1) A single swing from Emrakul is 15 dmg, not 20, and achieving those last 5 points of damage was very difficult. Also, on T1, opponent has very little to be annihilated, so there is that as well.
2) Jin-Gitaxias got frequently hit by StoP before he could draw cards, and was only a puny 5/4 without flying or lifelink. Cue Griselbrand, and you may have a concept. Very risky and shaky one, but nevertheless.
3) Reanimating Emrakul screws up your graveyard, both when the animation is successful and when it is unsuccessful.
4) Hapless Researcher can jump block (or "dodge a bullet" called lightning bolt) and discard a creature with traditional reanimator creatures, but not when you want to discard Emrakul. That means 1 less block, and every life point counts.
5) Mystical Tutor is banned. This is a deck which would really, really need it. LDV is so much slower that you may as well play traditional reanimator.
6) Having an opposing discard effect hit a creature in hand with traditional reanimator = bad play from the opponent. Having the same discard effect hit your Emrakul when you don't want to animate it (even if you could) in opponent's main phase and getting Emrakul shuffled into your deck = sad panda.
II Sideboard - More than 50% of tournament games are played post-SB.
Mono-black's greatest plus was redundancy in G1. That and Dark Ritual. However, post-SB vs modern day graveyard hate....bleaargh. Long gone are the days when a Pithing Needle solved all your worries.
BU builds: I found that the [s]best[/s] least horrible strategy for G2 was Show and Tell sideboard. Which is slow. SnT -> Emrakul was too slow most of the time, and SnT-> Gitaxias was useless if opponent had removal. So, from my point of view, the deck used to have one of the best G1 win percentages, but one of the lowest G2-3 win percentages. Sounds very much like Dredge, so what is the advantage of this deck over Dredge? After all, at least even the dredge zombies stick to the field and can make jump blocks... I also considered transformational SB, but then what would the deck transform into? Not traditional reanimator because weaknesses are the same (grave hate). You could transform into a suboptimal Sneaky Show for games 2 & 3, which raises the question why not play Sneaky Show in the first place...
III Comparison to other decks:
Basically, this deck runs somewhat like Sneaky Show, except it is easier for Sneaky Show to get a second creature out after the first one leaves the table at end of turn (Sneak Attack).
On the other hand, more traditional Reanimator builds get the creature out permanently. It may cost life points and it may not be Emrakul-sized, but hey, unless they have an answer, that may well be good enough. Time and time again there have been people playing traditional reanimator builds witha more limited array of creatures (e.g. 4x Iona, 2-3 other guys) with moderate success. So why think "too much" outside of the box instead of just focusing on traditional shell with 4x Griselbrand + only 1-2 other guys MD for consistency, and leave the creature variety for the SB? I felt like tuning the UB build of this more and more towards consistency and protection just makes it more and more like a traditional reanimator build...
Compared to Omniscience, this deck is faster as long as the opponent does not have...well...interaction.
In other words, I found that this type of Reanimator deck had a better G1 win % than a traditional Reanimator build, but a much much worse G2-3 win % because it the deck is even more focused on the graveyard and not getting reanimation spells countered than traditional reanimator (Emrakul into grave, animation, gets countered, shuffle, sad panda). This translates into worse match win % = worse performance than traditional reanimator.
IV Some tricks I used to love while playing around with this deck:
- Shallow Grave / Goryo's Vengeance 1 creature during opponent's end step (leaves play effect triggers at the beginning of the end step = if you play the card after the end step is begun, the creature will stay on the board for your turn) + another one in your own turn, both swing at the same time = lethal. Comes out of nowhere.
- Shallow Grave Terastodon and destroy your own 3 lands either during opponent's combat phase to surprise block their creatures (9/9 leaves play at EOT but the 3/3 guys get to swing for 9 permanently) or during your opponent's end step (surprise swing for 18; no summoning sickness for tokens this way).
To sum it up, I had this great idea about Emrakul.DEC only to find out that the MVP was Terastodon, because it could swing for more at once and leave behind creature tokens onto the table. But it's also a one-sided Armageddon, which is very much all-in. Small tournaments can be won with a small number of god hands, but large tournaments are won only through consistency.
Stuff I did not try but considered trying in the build:
LEGENDARY build - Godo, Bandit Warlord + Batterskull to solve the blockers issue. Godo's 3/3 body is pretty useless, though. But if you animate him during opponent's end step, the extra combat phase with vigilance Batterskull should be nice.
NON-LEGENDARY build - Sovereigns of Lost Alara + Eldrazi Conscription to gain an attacker as big as Emrakul (although no flying and smaller Annihilator) which would not screw up the graveyard. With an advantage of attaching the Aura to something else instead. But this guy gets hit by StoP, so that's that.
The truth is that Griselbrand is the sole reason to run such a deck given the constraints Jin Gitaxias and Emrakul bring on their own.
Nice recap on your thoughts.
Right now, Death-Rite Shaman being overly played in my meta, I don't think Reanimator and NLR are safe choices
That's a shame because the builds sporting DRS severely hose Maverick which was kind of a risky MU (Karakas, Thalia, Ooze, Knight of the Reliquary being quite the nuisances).
More than ever Deathmark is a nice addition to the sideboard.
You're forgetting that Abrupt Decay hits Animate Dead, while Reanimate is immune to it, it's also way faster and better fits this deck because it allows you to cast entomb/CS and reanimate right away on turn 1 if you have a petal in hand. Also, flusterstorm isn't a card that sees that much play to justify one card as opposed to the other, it's also never in 4-of packs when it shows up as well. In this same sense, one can argue in favor of Reanimate because it dodges Daze and possibly Spell Pierce that much easier, all of which are much more used cards. Reanimate does wins again in this contest of possible threats against our reanimation suite, since stifle is a much more relevant and seen card than flusterstorm and, while Animate Dead dies to it, Reanimate ignores it completely. I also disagree on this deck being more life dependant than the traditional one as you're saying, especially since it's way faster and, for being so, it is not as prone to being aggroed as it's "older brother". For this very same reason, I fail to see the problem regarding Griselbrand's life loss unless you're playing against Burn. I also happen to hardly ever find myself needing to draw 14 cards at one given time with him, so I don't think this is a true downside or deck changing characteristic whatsoever. For all these points, there really is no reason for Animate Dead to replace Reanimate. The fact that the much slower and more easily aggroed traditional list stands true for this fact adds to this conclusion as well.
The major thing that concerns me in your list is that, by each update, you're getting closer to the traditioinal list and it is to me a major contradiction that diminishes the whole purpose of using this version rather than the other. The purpose of this deck is to be naturally more explosive and aggressive than the traditional list, which is a much more controlish, slower and more prone to handsculpting than this one. With only 3 petals, this deck will be indeed slower than the original one, because all of your reanimation spells cost 2, while the traditional one has 4 Reanimates to their favor plus retains its aforementioned features. I can understand why you don't like Dark Ritual, but I think cutting the 4th petal and completely removing DR is bit too harsh on this deck's nature.
My list consists of
3 underground sea
4 polluted delta
2 misty rainforest
2 verdant catacombs
2 island
1 swamp
4 lotus petal
3 dark ritual
4 fow
4 daze
4 brainstorm
3 thoughtseize
4 entomb
4 careful study
4 shallow grave
3 goryo's vengeance
2 reanimate
1 emrakul
1 nicol bolas
3 griselbrand
2 jin
As for the sideboard, I don't really like Show and Tell and I think it can be skipped in favor of a more strategic game plan, so this is what I've been using:
3 Pithing Needle
3 Echoing Truth
2 Hurkyl's Recall
1 Thoughtseize
1 Duress
3 Submerge
1 Darkblast
1 Coffin Purge
Other than that, I truly believe you should exchange 1 Jin or 1 Griselbrand for the singleton Nicol Bolas (the creature, not the planeswalker) for possible turn 1 massive multifocused damage/not-so-subtle win. This is what I've been doing and I think it's great, especially when your opponent gets that look on his face. This is an idea the Modern Reanimator list performs well, and legacy can do it just that much better and for much higher damage considering it's done turn 1.
can i get some thoughts on this mono black deck list? i was researching reanimator and realized that i enjoy the massive explosive mono black style over b/u's consistency, having said that do realize that this will be a kitchen counter deck. i have a good bunch of the key cards, so before i invested deeper into it i just wanted to make sure the deck didn't have TOO many holes.
reanimation spells:
4 shallow grave
4 goryo's vengence
protection:
4 cabal therapy
4 unmask
2 duress
3 not of this world
enablers:
4 putrid imp
4 entomb
mana accel:
4 dark rit
4 lotus petal
reanimation targets:
4 g-brand
1 emrakul
1 serra avatar for the nut hand
1 nicol bolas
1jin-gitaxias
land base:
15 swamps
Last edited by xieyun006; 12-13-2012 at 01:35 PM. Reason: updated deck list
I would skip the 3 Not of This World for 3 Liliana of the Veil if possible. I'm also trying her out in the UB version, needs more testing though but overall I'm liking it. I'm a big stifle fan but so far it has felt really out of place in this deck, but there isn't really another way to protect yourself from Karakas here, so I'm not really sure about it yet.
correct me if i misunderstood you, but thats one of the reasons why NOTW is listed. liliana is a good choice and adds to consistency, but since all of my protection is proactive, i just wanted one card that can stop karakas/maze or sword to plowshares incase all my discard got countered, and i didn't draw any more until gris is on the field and its too late to protect him. *edit* its also one of the reasons why reanimate isn't a solid choice because of the life loss, this way its a better chance that i could activate gris twice and be at least 21 cards deep into my deck(if combo went off turn one), you said before that you never needed to activate gris more than once, but fortunately for you, your decks had more than 3 counter spells lol*end edit*. i know i'm putting alot on getting that great hand, but i look at it this way the b/u version of this deck has traded the versatility of traditional animator for speed of dark rit/petals, i'm just taking it one more step.
So can the second ability of rest in peace be stifled? Or is this a replacement effect?
I like the idea of this deck. But i somewhat fear the overwhelming amount of deathrite shaman in the current BUG meta. Just like RIP (combo). Or can this deck outrace Deathrite Shaman with assistance of Stifle?
RIP has two abilities:
1. The EtB is a trigger to exile existing graveyards.
2. There is also a continuous replacement effect to exile any move to the graveyard.
You can Stifle the first ability.
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I don't really care about Shaman tbh, I think it's a very inefficient way to deal with this deck also. It can only remove 1 creature per time and it has summoning sickness, you can simply ignore it most of the times with the explosiveness this deck has, dodge it with shallow grave + entomb or trick your opponent into removing a singleton griselbrand or jin and then dropping the Aeons Torn to his and the shaman's demise. In my case, since I pack 3 Lilianas maindeck, it gets even easier to do so. Therefore, I just really don't care about the shaman.
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