ever since abrupt decay came out I've been thinking about a way to splash green, and I thought Id bring this to the communities table.
decay has obvious positives for the deck. it can release us from CB/top lock. (so could needle) it could release us from needle, it could force any grave hate shy of leyline to die, or go off. It can take out almost every hate bear creature. It is unfreaking counterable. Green in general gives other utilities.
Life from the loam. A card that helps us get back from wasteland, get our karakas back (if thats still there) and the kicker, DREDGE! an additional way to get cards into our graveyards.
so here is my current BUg reanimator build.
fatz [7]
1 Angel of Despair
1 Inkwell Leviathan
1 elesh norn
1 Sphinx of the Steel Wind
1 Griselbrand
2 Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur
Instants [15]
4 Force of Will
3 Abrupt Decay
4 Brainstorm
4 Entomb
Sorceries [1]
3 Thoughtseize
3 inquisition of kozilek
4 Careful Study
4 Reanimate
1 life from the loam
2 Ponder
Enchantments [3]
3 Animate dead
Lands [18]
2 Misty Rainforest
3 Verdant Catacombs
3 Polluted Delta
2 Island
1 Swamp
1 Forest
1 bayou
2 Tropical Island
3 Underground Sea
Sideboard
4 Delver of Secrets
1 Abrupt Decay
1 Iona
2 Jace, the mind sculptor
2 City of Traitors
2 Spellpierce
3 Show and Tell
3 Engineered Explosives
its rough.. rip it apart, help it grow.
westcoast degeneracy
Bounce is on color and and achieves the same purpose (outside of CB/top). Between discard and bounce, why would you want more exposure to the manabase in order to splash maindeck removal?
West side
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because bounce never felt to me like it was truly getting rid of anything. And reanimator doesnt exist in a world with high game 1 win percentages anymore. I also think that Life from the loam provides safety in the mana base as well as dredgin. There are directions the deck could go with green that could be explored in my opinion and Abrupt decay is a powerful card that I dont think has found a good home yet. Also RIP coming back into play doesnt help anyone. Abrupt is literally, 'ok we're done with that thing now move on'
mated with my proposed extra discard in the deck to stem the need of Daze I think the build has a good starting place.
westcoast degeneracy
Why do you say that? It's not like RIP is warping the format or something like that. Reanimator still holds it's high game 1 win ratio and if you're not achieving that, then you're doing something wrong probably.Originally Posted by csy
Also, Dredge i'snt something that works well with this deck. We have enough cantripping + enablers (4 entomb, 4 careful studies and emergency thoughtseizes if need be) to get there and we can't really afford to risk throwing to the GY our precious FoWs that Griselbrand would want to draw with it's ability, in order to protect itself and finish the game. This deck doesn't have any issues regarding mana either, in fact it is one of the easiest decks out there on the manabase, and if you're getting manascrewed due to wasteland, that's due to your missplays. Your fetches, especially your deltas, are there for another reason other than picking up seas, thus rendering wasteland a literal waste. When facing wasteland you play around it, not directly against it. It's also not worth it to include life from loam and take out something actually useful just because you may have lost one of your karakas, which is a card with a very narrow use already and one of it's major applications is dealing with another karakas, so if this end has been achieved, the graveyard is where it can gladly stay. And anyway, by trying to protect your manabase, you're splashing another color and making the deck that much more susceptible to wasteland. You're not achieving anything great really by enforcing this contradiction. The fact you have a singleton Loam also means you're probably going to waste one of your entombs to find it, because you can't rely on cantripping to find a 1-of card in your deck. That entomb would be much better used somewhere else.
As for bounce, you do it when you need to, as in the opponent's EOT. You don't actually need to permanently get rid of rest in peace or something else with a single spell, and if you're reanimating Griselbrand - which is probably what you're doing most of the time - you can draw yourself plenty of disruption and/or counters to deal with it as soon as it tries to get back into play or even in your turn by discarding it. And if you're bringing cards such as Iona for example, that is just game. Abrupt Decay, while having a broader application than, say, Echoing Truth, is not really necessary if you time your actions right and it also doesn't deal with Leyline of the Void for example, or any permanent with multiples on the field. It's not like we haven't seen this kind of g1 hate anyway, after all, maverick is stilll out there in great numbers and you can simply outplay these decks by knowing which hands to keep and when to act. I'm not saying it's easy or anything, but it is very far from unachievable.
Last edited by Bright Light Bringer; 10-26-2012 at 05:08 PM.
Alsan, congratulations on your recent success with your deck that you have honed and polished for ages! I enjoyed reading your report and have found much insight in your play experiences and deck choices. I too have played Reanimator for years and had a couple of questions:
1. Could you give some specifics on what you side out for different match ups, especially the common match ups that you listed in your report? Against nearly all of the expected archetypes, you said you added about 8-10 cards from the sideboard, so I wonder what you remove without diluting the deck's consistency too much.
2. With two of your seventeen lands being Karakas, do you ever find that 15 colored sources are too few? I have jumped between 16-17 colored lands (4 basics, 4 Underground Seas and 8-9 fetches), and going to 15 blue/black sources seems like it could be cutting it too close for getting the right combinations of colors early game. On that note of mana sources, do you ever side out Karakas or does it always stay in to at least pay for colorless mana?
3. How has Empyrial Archangel worked for you? I always keep a shroud/hexproof creature within my 75 (mostly in fear of the unfortunate times when a Jace hits the table), but the damage redirection of the angel has at times been a hindrance rather than a benefit for me. Dealing 8 damage within a single turn is not the most difficult thing to do for several decks, so I prefer Inkwell Leviathan to fill that role for me. When a pure beatstick is needed to push through damage, Inkwell seems less vulnerable.
4. Do you ever miss Pithing Needle in the sideboard? I know you mentioned in the report that the needle is fine when dealing with Sneak Attack. I used to be of the opinion that at least two should be in the sideboard for their sheer versatility against hate, but between running Karakas mainboard and Submerge out of the side to deal with Scavening Ooze and Knight of the Reliquary, perhaps they are not necessary anymore. It is still a simple solution to the aforementioned cards, as well as graveyard hating artifacts like Crypt and Relic.
Congrats again on your victory through resurrection of giant animals! The deck is surprisingly resilient through hate compared to other combo decks and can overcome most obstacles with enough patience and know-how!
Thank you man :D. It's been a while since Ovino, but yesterday I played my local and monthly big Legacy tournament with the same 75 cards, ending 3rd 'cause the Omnitell of the semifinals casted 3 Fows in the 12 first cards, countering my Tseize, my Reanimate, and my Fow showing me out with burning wish in front of Blazing archon, damn xD.
Usually I Sb out 2 Careful, 3 Reanimation spells, 2-3 Daze, 1-2 Creatures. So, imagine:
Esper blade: -2 Careful, -3 Exhume (don't want Vendilion Clique back), -3 daze, -1 Sphinx, -1 Archon, +2 Duress, +3 Show, +2 EE, +1 Echoing, +1 Iona, +1 Angel of despair.
Zoo: -2 Careful, -3 Exhume, -3 daze, -1 JinG, +1 Iona, +3 Show, +2 EE, +3 Submerge
UWr Miracles: -2 Careful, -3 Exhume, -3 daze, -1 Archon, -1 Sphinx, +1 Angel, +1 Iona, +3 Show, +2 Duress, +2 EE, +1 Echoing
UB Tezz: -2 Careful, -3 Exhume, -3 daze, -1 Archangel, -1 JinG, +1 Angel, +1 Iona, +3 Show, +2 Duress, +2 EE, +1 Echoing
Esper Wizards: -2 Careful, -3 Exhume, -3 daze, -1 Archon, -1 JinG, +1 Angel, +1 Iona, +3 Show, +2 Duress, +2 EE, +1 Fluster
RG Goblins: -2 Careful, -3 Exhume, -3 daze, -1 JinG, +1 Iona, +3 Show, +2 Duress, +2 EE, +1 Echoing
UW Tempo: -2 Careful, -3 Exhume, -3 daze, -1 JinG, +1 Iona, +3 Show, +2 Duress, +2 EE, +1 Fluster
RUG: -2 Careful, -3 Animate dead if stifle, exhume if not, -3 daze, -1 JinG, -1 Archangel, +1 Iona, +1 Angel, +3 Show, +2 Duress, +2 EE, +1 Fluster
ANT: -2 Careful, -1 Animate dead, -1 Exhume, -1 Reanimate, -1 Archon, -1 Sphinx, -1 Daze (if cage), -1 Karakas (if cage), +1 Iona, +3 Show, +2 Duress, +1 Fluster, +2 EE (if cage)
I count the second karakas as a spell, so I'm playing 16 lands, and with one land I can keep (blue if ponder, black if entomb, that's a keep). Yesterday I mulliganed a hand with entomb x2, reanimate, animate, fluster, island and fow, on the play, 'cause I didn't have ponder, so...
I hated Archangel in the early reanimation games, 'cause it was useless against GW, but vs Blade is the best card, so, it stays for me. Keeping me alive of the snapcasters or the batterskull is enough.
If the metagame shifts to more and more miracle control, yes, Pithing will be back. The new art from RTR is awesome :D. But right now, no, I don't miss it at all. Pithing top or Jace is OP, but EE a counterbalance + RIP is better (I did yesterday and it's powerful. I won a match against miracles with 2 STP in hand, Counterbalance + RIP on table, and Jace landing eventually. EE is the best card)
Thanks again for reading :). Suggestions?
3d2Y. [Wolves never look back]
Thank you for your response, that was all very useful. I see that your Engineered Explosives really are the MVP of the sideboard, so I'm very interested in trying them out.
As for suggestions, your list has obviously been refined to fit your playstyle. If I were to make any changes, I might cut the single Flusterstorm for a third Duress. I have played counterspells in the sideboard (namely Spell Pierce) and I have always preferred having more proactive answers in the form of discard. I feel that clearing the way with discard through an opponent's counterspells is better than holding back mana for counters when trying to reanimate or Show and Tell. Plus, it gets you a look at your opponent's hand, which could give you a clue as to what creature to Entomb. I see your Flusterstorm comes in whenever the Duresses do, so why not make your deck more redundant?
Do you find the Coffin Purge to be helpful? I'm not sure if using an Entomb is worth it in order to remove one card from another Reanimator player's graveyard. I try to be cautious when playing the mirror match and rely a lot on my discard spells to make sure the coast is clear. I might be inclined to switch out the Coffin Purge for another Echoing Truth, or possibly a Pithing Needle (since it has always been useful to me).
I have considered adding a Terastodon to the sideboard. While it's not the best creature in any particular matchup I can think of, it is almost always useful as a target to draw into. At the very least, it can replace a poor creature choice for games 2 and 3. It also has the potential to completely bust games open in your favor (destroying a mana-screwed opponent's lands, giving you 2-3 extra blockers against aggro, etc.).
I like the idea of branching out (I loved my reanimator deck..until my local meta over-hated it out). Some glaring issues I see;
14x Blue cards (I didn't count the creatures...if you do you're at 18) which means in you're starting hand you might have 2, thus you're count is too low for the usual "re-animate with counterbackup plan". The real threat of reanimator was getting out a very powerful threat stupidly fast...but it seems you're sacrificing speed to help with answers for longer/midrange game. But that's fundamentally the problem with the list I see...you're going directly against the point of the Reanimation Strategy..if you're going to re-animate on turn 4/5/6..you allow your opponent the time needed to setup/stop you (for example...against Maverick..if they land KoTR..you're creature base is reduced to 3..and once they hit 4 mana..they have essentially 8 copies). I like the IoK maindeck (I ran a 3:1 split with Thoughtsieze as the life loss with a heavier Griselbrand strategy is more relevant). I am also very confused as to why you have a partial Delver SB plan and a partial Show and Tell plan...Typically Re-animator goes for the Show and Tell plan to blank the GY hate your opponent brings in..or the Delver plan to add more threats/throw your opponent off, unfortunately, as is the case with most transformational sideboard plans..they take up a LOT of space, while I do think the "melding" idea is cool I don't see it working out so well. Also, it may be that I haven't faced anyone with RIP yet, but what I'm seeing now is that Tormod's crypt/Purify the Grave are the "go to hate" for the graveyard...and abrupt does a pretty poor job (or no job against purify) as fighting the hate.
As an outsider looking in, why don't reanimator decks play burning wish and UBr?
"eggs... why'd it have to be eggs"
for two reasons :
-reanimator decks have already several reanimation spells, and they are already 10. cutting them for burning wish will make the deck slower, and less efficient. Moreover, Show uses it only to have potentially 8 Snt in the deck.
-we have to fight against GY hate and creatures one (coz we don't kill in one turn), so the side can't be completely optimised for BW.
but this is just a subsudiar question to the real one: when will Mystical tutor be unbanned?
Second that! :P
but this is just a subsudiar question to the real one: when will Mystical tutor be unbanned?
Whats goin on guys?
been away from my baby, reanimator, too long but I do enjoy Spanish Inquisition.
ANYWAYS! I just got back from a 20 man legacy tourney with Reanimator
FIRST OFF, the list
FAT A$$es
2 Jin-G
2 Grizz
1 Empyrial
1 Despair
1 Iona
1 Sphinx
8
Reanimation Suite
4 exhume
4 reanimate
3 animate dead
19
The Business
4 Force
4 Brainstorm
2 Ponder
2 Thoughtseize
4 Entomb
4 Careful study
3 Daze
42
Lands
4 Underground
4 Polluted
2 Island
2 Swamp
3 Misty
3 Verdant
60
SB
4 SnT
2 Pithing
2 Echoing
2 Tormod's
2 Despair
1 Archon
1 Norn
1 Inkwell
The Report
Round 1
My buddy Dave who is a great magic player, much better than me, who I know is on Turbo Eldrazi
He states that its a good match-up for his deck and I tell him that he will win unless he misplays.
Game 1: I get out turn 3 Jin after stopping his crop rots and what not. he misplays a fetch and i get to capitalize.
Game 2: It was a blur but he said he misplayed a crucial action that i missed where he could have gotten karakas to bounce my Jin but he instead grabbed eye D:
GG Dave
1-0 (2-0)
Round 2
Daves roommate, Mike. Nice guy, dont know him very well but i heard him asking for thragtusks before the tourny so i guess Nic Fit
Game 1: He Lilly -2's my fatty and proceeds to get jace out and some other fatties so i scoop.
Game 2: I play and get jin out on curve to which he says he kept a shaky seven and we move onto game 3
Game 3: I knock him down to 2 with inkwell. He spends most of the game digging with fetchs and brainstorms. He gets out thragtusk and follows up the next turn with a top decked lilly to kill the inkwell. I top deck a SnT but he has the negate to seal the deal.
1-1 (3-2)
Round 3
D&T man, Afro Dave. He says that he knows im not on my usual deck bc my rounds have been lasting longer but he doesnt know what im playing.
Game 1: i win the roll and get out empyrial to stall for another fatty and he concedes.
Game 2: Iona naming white is pretty good.
2-1 (5-2)
Round 4
My buddy Justin. He picked up miracles about 2 or 3 weeks ago and he has come a long way from being the noob that picked up UW miracles.
I helped finish the list and i know his 75 and he kind of knows my 75. the big deal is he runs RIP miracles w energy field/helm, Caleb Durwards build.
Game 1: I win the roll and finagle a turn 4 despair through counter magic to destroy his karakas but he follows up with RIP so i swing 4 times and counter an energy field.
Game 2: he keeps a hand that he claims: "was the perfect land if i drew a land." and it would have been "fetch, RIP, energy field, top, cbalance and terminus" no lands, no dice.
GG Justin, i just get super lucky with this deck :D
3-1 (7-2)
Round 5
Seth, the teacher. He is 4-0 and says lets play and see what happens. final round and hes guaranteed in but idk him well enough to know if he is gonna give me the win.
He is on Walking Dead, the 4-color zombie bombardment brain child of Sam Black.
Game 1: I win the roll and get swept by 3 ghasts, 2 souls and a crawler.
Game 2: I land norn 3 times and after the 3rd she lasts more than a turn and i follow up w an archangel.
Game 3: I get jin out t2 but he kills it before combat. I top deck a reanimation spell to bring him back and draw the counter magic necesary to keep him down. Norn on the following turn seals the deal.
He then says he told me he conceded to me and that he and I are in top 4 no matter what. Seth is a nice guy :D
4-1 (9-3)
Top 4
They call this guy master of top decks. He is usually a maverick player but tonight he got together Bant.
Game 1: he wins the roll after we tie 5 times. I keep a hand with: fetch, sphinx, 2 reanimate, animate dead, exhume, entomb. I draw, discard sphinx and pass. t2 he dazes first reanimate. t3 he bounces sphinx. then i get beat down by douchey knight of ******ry.
Game 2: He gets greedy and GSZ twice on back to back turns for pridemages to destroy back to back animate deads only to get blown out by my top decked reanimate.
Game 3: I figure my hand is great and i have t1 entomb and t2 exhume for inkwell so i start trolling him. He gets a bit on tilt and i go to exhume inkwell on t2 so he digs w a brainstorm to which i take a dreadfully long pause and pass back priority to which he sighs and resolves the brainstorm. He attempts to force the exhume and i show him mine bc he showed me his. Inkwell gets there and i make finals.
5-1 (11-4)
Finals
New guy Nick playing the 'Folk. I ask him to split for 66 credit and he says yes i wanna go home.
Overall, I love this deck. Not once did i want a karakas in the 60 or the 75. Usually a heavy combo meta but tonight was very controlly and aggro'y.
This is one of the most consistent, streamline decks. DO NOT convolute it with frivolous extra colors. The sideboard needs some work but it was fine for tonight.
I love Iona but she maybe a better sideboard option. inkwell or archon or norn depending on the meta in place of her. I loved the extra despair but 1 is fine in the side. The crypts were fine against walking dead but i think relic could replace it fine. 18 lands is a good number but i would think about going down a fetch and up a ponder. The needles are often times to reactive so unless it hits something in that MU hard, dont bother.
Thank u a lot Alex!
i'm a new player for reanimator and your side plan is very very useful for me!
i'm a chinese boy study in Toulouse France, when i play in the BOM6 Annecy (seem like i'm the only one chinese in BOM6 -. -), i use Maverick so i didn't know u then.
and if you will go to GP strasbourg 2013, i'm glad to see you then.
best regards
Zilong
Have any of you guys checked out "Next-Level" Reanimator? I've played both lists and it seems like NLR is better now that powerful monsters like Griselbrand and Emrakul exist (in addition to more hate) - Goryo's Vengeance and Shallow Grave accentuate their strengths better. Stifle does work too.
Has most of the success been with traditional reanimator?
Next level? I beg to disagree. The most current reanimator is one of, if not the most, streamline combo decks in legacy.
Consistently turn 2 jin or griselbrand will win you most games if your opponent doesn't scoop em up right there.
The key is the pilot. Know the deck and know the hate. The rest is luck.
This is an amazing deck that doesn't need a gimmick or some superficial facelift.
Dude, I'm not trying to bash on you here - that's why I put "next-level" in quotes. That's just what some people in the other thread are calling their version to distinguish it from this one, once classic reanimator started playing Griselbrand.
I've top32d a SCG open with traditional Reanimator, so yes, I understand how the deck works. I've also won a couple local tournaments with the "Next-Level" version, and I think it's an interesting version to test. It's not a superficial facelift, it's playing into the strengths of the monsters. Traditional reanimator can struggle with a bunch of different hate, but I've personally found the NLR version to be able to play through it more easily, mostly because it gets to play at instant speed and Emrakul is insanely powerful.
Before just flaming other people, try looking at their ideas' merits. Try out the other deck on cockatrice or something.
My apologies. I didn't mean to come off so douchey and I appreciate your patience.
I love this deck and I see it as one of the most fine-tuned, streamline decks. I am open to any and all ideas, believe me, but I did not feel the need for a definate third color.
No worries.
Third color? I guess I haven't really kept up with what people are posting, but the person who has the best handle on that version seems to be OrGy. His decklist is super solid. My list with Silence/Pull from Eternity is bad, and I dunno about the guy with the green splash on the last page, but I assume it's bad too.
I might quibble about the number Stifles maindeck (I loved its utility against common maindeck hate), but the list I linked is pretty streamlined and tested by him to some success in Europe.
Hey guys,
I was long time away from MTG, but since we had a GP in my country last weekend I had to go. On sunday I attended the legacy tournament, with the exact same list as Alsan but without the 2 karakas (+1 exhume, +1 island). It was the first time I had the opportunity to play with griselbrand and oh boy, it rocked so much, that most of the time i just boarded out jin. I used Alsan tips for sideboard, and I found that both the decklist and the sideboard strategy were very effective. I ended up 5-1 only loosing to goblins, to my own fault, because I kept forgotting that stupid land (i didn't knew of) that makes them play goblin dudes uncounterable. I played against UGB (2-0), Omniscience (2-0), Goblins (0-2), MonoW (2-1), RUG (2-1) and GB (2-0). I ended up 2nd place and got a nice revised underground sea and a bunch of boosters. MVP of the day was griselbrand! The most cool play was against omniscience dude, when in the 2nd game at his 2nd turn he show and tells his emrakul and i show angel of despair
The only sideboard card i didn't use was submerge, but i didn't face any zoo either. Also didn't missed karakas, but then again i never fought against opposing karakas or mirror. Rounding up, it was lots of fun, and the deck is still in very good shape even facing lots of sb hate.
GG for u, BTW that's cavern of souls.Hey guys,
I was long time away from MTG, but since we had a GP in my country last weekend I had to go. On sunday I attended the legacy tournament, with the exact same list as Alsan but without the 2 karakas (+1 exhume, +1 island). It was the first time I had the opportunity to play with griselbrand and oh boy, it rocked so much, that most of the time i just boarded out jin. I used Alsan tips for sideboard, and I found that both the decklist and the sideboard strategy were very effective. I ended up 5-1 only loosing to goblins, to my own fault, because I kept forgotting that stupid land (i didn't knew of) that makes them play goblin dudes uncounterable. I played against UGB (2-0), Omniscience (2-0), Goblins (0-2), MonoW (2-1), RUG (2-1) and GB (2-0). I ended up 2nd place and got a nice revised underground sea and a bunch of boosters. MVP of the day was griselbrand! The most cool play was against omniscience dude, when in the 2nd game at his 2nd turn he show and tells his emrakul and i show angel of despair
The only sideboard card i didn't use was submerge, but i didn't face any zoo either. Also didn't missed karakas, but then again i never fought against opposing karakas or mirror. Rounding up, it was lots of fun, and the deck is still in very good shape even facing lots of sb hate.
almost same exprience with me, 3rd place / 39 pers and only lose against my friend Esper Blade in the demi-final, i have one karakas, the other is the same as his list, i try too understand and use the plan of Alex(Alsan) and it seems like very effective. I have also ponder a angel in the game 2 and win a Omniscien 2-0 too, got 4 UB fetch, not bad : )
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