[Deck] 12 Post

[SBGpinas]

And a reply like that only shows immaturity; I was not being rude to you, don't be rude to me. I agree that I should have searched the older forum first, my apologies, but it would've been just as easy for you to direct me to it politely rather than rudely demeaning me and calling me a casual player.

Ok everybody take a chill pill before this gets out of hand...

Back to the topic at hand though, having Candelabra opens up a lot of plays for the deck. Admittedly you will win games without ever drawing that card, but having it together with Repeal is just sick. With Candelabra, Turn 4 Eldrazi plays, and hard-casting Primeval Titan with only 1 green mana source becomes possible, even common, so based on playtesting experience, I would really suggest not skimping out on those.

[Darkenslight]

And a reply like that only shows immaturity; I was not being rude to you, don't be rude to me. I agree that I should have searched the older forum first, my apologies, but it would've been just as easy for you to direct me to it politely rather than rudely demeaning me and calling me a casual player.

Well, to be frank, a list without any Candelabra is only for a very specific metagame of which it is unlikely in the least. This is the Established Deck forum. Moreover:

I was asked this more and more as the day went by. I own a playset, and some of the time a playset is the number you want, some of the times 3, 2, and 1 are the right amount. I've played the deck with zero and it always felt like I wanted some number of them.

In my matches that day, when I had it I never said "this candelabra is holding me down," which I have in the past when running multiples. And in my Goblins matchup I drew the candelabra when I wanted it, which was when I had ~1/3 of my starting deck left, which statistically speaking is where you should be with running only 1.

Long answer: ^

Short answer: 1, for now.

That's from the very last page of the Development thread. And that was from the SCG Providence list, where Rock split the Finals.

[noiseweasel]

I've become a big fan of this deck. However, being the scrubbity-scrub-scrub I am, I was wondering about your latest iteration of it.
Specifically, I was curious as to the inclusion of the singleton GSZ. I realize that it functions as Titan #4 but what brought about the change?

[Rock Lee]

I've become a big fan of this deck. However, being the scrubbity-scrub-scrub I am, I was wondering about your latest iteration of it.
Specifically, I was curious as to the inclusion of the singleton GSZ. I realize that it functions as Titan #4 but what brought about the change?

Short answer. I copied my teammate.

Long answer. I tried a build with multiple GSZ's in it, a green tutor kit, dryad arbor. It did ok, but ultimately I found that it forced you into a static line of play that deviates from the real strength of the deck, its adaptability. I tweaked the number of GSZ's from 2-4 for awhile, and ultimately gave up on the build. My teammate Scott Hughes stuck with it, and did some testing and tuning that I never did, which involved dropping all the non-primeval titan targets, and going down to 3, then 2, then 1 GSZ's. His success with the deck in that iteration brought me back to testing it, and it was extremely solid. It also does allow for possible sideboard options, but for the most part it is just there for Titan #5.

[noiseweasel]

That's about what I figured. I'm still learning the deck's intricacies. This thing is way trickier than it looks to pilot. R/G tron in modern seems similar, which is usually what I play in that format, so that's how I ended up here. But this thing has some hidden depths to it. When are you boarding in the Spellskite?

Also: Love the pink card sleeves you were using in the tourney videos. I personally use Pokemon sleeves. Messing with people's heads is half the fun of playing a control deck.

[Rock Lee]

That's about what I figured. I'm still learning the deck's intricacies. This thing is way trickier than it looks to pilot. R/G tron in modern seems similar, which is usually what I play in that format, so that's how I ended up here. But this thing has some hidden depths to it. When are you boarding in the Spellskite?

Also: Love the pink card sleeves you were using in the tourney videos. I personally use Pokemon sleeves. Messing with people's heads is half the fun of playing a control deck.

Spellskite is the newest addition to the sideboard, so I'm not 100% on what it does and doesn't come in against. Burn is the most obvious choice, but also I bring it in against anything that tries to clock you, especially with 3-1/X's, when blocks matter, and most importantly, when I need my needles, so against all artifact hate, vindicate, or when randomly redirecting an effect that can save my life, such as against Belcher.

Keep in mind though, I often will side out my needles in matchups where the ONLY dangerous target to name is wasteland, and they will be keeping on weaker hands that happen to have wasteland. And if they re-side game 3 I will often bring them back in if they had artifact hate game 2. Mindscrew activate.

[noiseweasel]

Yeah I was originally a bit iffy about maindecking needles but it really does open the door wide for head games having them in there game one.
My utter favorite to date is a game two Meddling Mage on needle. I almost died trying not to laugh.

[Rock Lee]

Yeah I was originally a bit iffy about maindecking needles but it really does open the door wide for head games having them in there game one.
My utter favorite to date is a game two Meddling Mage on needle. I almost died trying not to laugh.

Scott Hughes once won a match entirely on naming Lotus Petal on Pithing needle and winning because of it. My mind was blown.

[Julian23]

I've seen Pithing Needle on Mountain win games. However the best Needle I faced was my MODO opponent naming Force of Will before casting Double Dark Ritual into Ad Nauseam. When I Forced it, he was like: "Well, worth a try."

[r3dd09]

I've seen Pithing Needle on Mountain win games. However the best Needle I faced was my MODO opponent naming Force of Will before casting Double Dark Ritual into Ad Nauseam. When I Forced it, he was like: "Well, worth a try."

Haha. Awesome. So I'm starting to pick up cards for this deck, basically need a mint candelabra and I got it mostly pimped.

[Rock Lee]

Haha. Awesome. So I'm starting to pick up cards for this deck, basically need a mint candelabra and I got it mostly pimped.

Mint candelabras are spendy as hell now. over 400 USD O.o

[r3dd09]

Mint candelabras are spendy as hell now. over 400 USD O.o

we'll go NM then. ha I also forgot about the tabernacle >.> I might just wait and get that one in Denver in january * who all is attending?

Pimp wise, I'm just ordering none foil german stuff for right now until I know This is a deck that I want to commit on. Luckily I got german foil eldrazis ;)

[Rock Lee]

we'll go NM then. ha I also forgot about the tabernacle >.> I might just wait and get that one in Denver in january * who all is attending?

I should be at Denver, 95% sure.

[r3dd09]

I should be at Denver, 95% sure.

Awesome, I plan on playing this deck. I don't know if I could play 2 days of DDFT * if everything does as planned*. Mental breakdown waiting to happen.

I'll proxy what I'm missing and practice and get ready for the GPT in 2 weeks. Should be rather easy as no one really plays legacy in Utah, and the people that do, only a few are going to the GP.

[Davek]

Yesterday i was having a fun, relaxed game with a friend of mine that was piloting my usual gobbos deck. I felt quite confident about this match but as i said it was nothing really serious. Anyway, i want to underline a situation that happened to me during the game. We were about to start our G2, sb in. I was on the draw and this was my opening hand: 2x misty rainforest, cloudpost, brainstorm, crop rotation, show and tell, elephant grass. "A good hand" i thought. Well, it turned out that it wasn't at all.
My friend landed a mountain and played a little pesky artifact we are running too (aka Pithing needle) naming... MISTY RAINFOREST! My shoulders shrinked, suddenly my hand was worse than ever. 4 turns later i died from a bloodthirsted angry mob of little green men. My friend then showed me his hand, telling me he had 2 pithing needle in his starting hand and that he was keeping the second for any utility artifact i could have landed. Even if i thought it was an odd move, it was definitely the right one.
I know, it was a case that's more unique than rare, but this made me thought: why should i run a whole set of misty rainforests since i have no basic forest to get with them? I switched from 4 rainforests to 1 x every blue fetch. I know that in this way our smartest opponents could understand that we are not running green basics, but i think they should be mostly worried about the huge amount of mana this deck can generate with locuses and try to deal with it. Until new changes to the flexible slots of the deck, i think i'll keep all 4 blue fetches as 1x.

[Rock Lee]

Yesterday i was having a fun, relaxed game with a friend of mine that was piloting my usual gobbos deck. I felt quite confident about this match but as i said it was nothing really serious. Anyway, i want to underline a situation that happened to me during the game. We were about to start our G2, sb in. I was on the draw and this was my opening hand: 2x misty rainforest, cloudpost, brainstorm, crop rotation, show and tell, elephant grass. "A good hand" i thought. Well, it turned out that it wasn't at all.
My friend landed a mountain and played a little pesky artifact we are running too (aka Pithing needle) naming... MISTY RAINFOREST! My shoulders shrinked, suddenly my hand was worse than ever. 4 turns later i died from a bloodthirsted angry mob of little green men. My friend then showed me his hand, telling me he had 2 pithing needle in his starting hand and that he was keeping the second for any utility artifact i could have landed. Even if i thought it was an odd move, it was definitely the right one.
I know, it was a case that's more unique than rare, but this made me thought: why should i run a whole set of misty rainforests since i have no basic forest to get with them? I switched from 4 rainforests to 1 x every blue fetch. I know that in this way our smartest opponents could understand that we are not running green basics, but i think they should be mostly worried about the huge amount of mana this deck can generate with locuses and try to deal with it. Until new changes to the flexible slots of the deck, i think i'll keep all 4 blue fetches as 1x.

No reason not to. I have just done that out of habit since I go in and out of running a basic forest. The original logic was so I could name other fetches, but the vulnerability seems too strong. That being said, I've never had it happen to me. There's just so many good things to name in the deck over it.

[Davek]

Rock, could you please give me some tips against Hive Mind? I had just few occasions to test against it, but i feel that g1 is just terrible, while post sb things could go slightly better (the problem is dealing with an hardcasted Hive Mind..)
Thanks

[Rock Lee]

Rock, could you please give me some tips against Hive Mind? I had just few occasions to test against it, but i feel that g1 is just terrible, while post sb things could go slightly better (the problem is dealing with an hardcasted Hive Mind..)
Thanks

The best play against Hive mind involves Show & Tell on either side, Primeval Titan and then paying for pacts via Vesuva'd Volcs. They can't Show in Emrakul, but make sure you don't walk into show'ing in your own Titan and they just put in a quasi-hasted Emrakul. Candelabras are huge in this match as they enable full payment of pacts. Don't forget that you can respond to the lose-the-game triggers by fixing your mana with crop rotations.

[Raystar]

Hey guys, I topped 4 a tournament yesterday with the following list:


4 Glimmerpost
4 Cloudpost
4 Vesuva
4 Tropical Island
4 Misty Rainforest
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Island
1 Glacial Chasm
1 Eye of Ugin
1 Karakas

4 Expedition Map
1 Candelabra of Tawnos
4 Sensei's Divining Top
3 Pithing Needle

1 Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
1 Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
4 Primeval Titan

4 Crop Rotation
4 Brainstorm
4 Repeal
3 Show and Tell
1 Green Sun's Zenith


Sideboard:

3 Elephant Grass
4 Flusterstorm
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
3 Chalice of the Void
2 Venser, Shaper Savant
2 Phyrexian Revoker


It was a small tournament with around 30 participants, all good players (legacy veterans) and with a meta full of Tempo/Mid-Range/S&T decks.

I had to make some adjustments to the last list from Rock Lee given the very significant presence of tempo decks in my meta, hence I ran 4 Repeal to try and gain back tempo.

I don't have my notes with me but here you go with a quick report:

T1: D&T with Aven Mindcensor

I loose G1 to too many creatures and a mindcensor that I didn't expect main deck preventing me to get the vesuva that would have saved my life. G2 Tabernacle+Elephant grass together with Emrakul sealed the deal. G3 was a needle fest and even if he had Mindcensor out I managed to get Tabernacle and elephant grass going again ftw.

1-0-0

T2: Tempo UGB with Decay and mongoose/delver/goyf

I win G1 with needle on Wasteland and Glacial Chasm copy galore, repeal also helped against turned delvers reducing clock immensely. G2 he was too fast for me and I couldn't stop the bleeding. G3 he made a terrible mistake by not countering my Crop Rotation EoT with FoW. I grabbed Eye of Ugin that picked Emrakul and proceeded to land the Karakas I had in hand to go infinite.

2-0-0

T3: Maverick GWU with Jace/Geist and no counters

I quickly win G1 on S&T for Emrakul. On G2 he sees 3 Wasteland and a Krosan Grip, it didn't last long . G3 is a great game (one of those that makes you want to continue to play MtG forever) my life swings from 2 to above 20 three times and I finally go infinite and close the game. At a certain point I had needle on Wasteland, Jace and Qasali...

3-0-0

I ID the following two games to get in Top 8

3-0-2

Quarterfinal: A friend with GUW Waterfalls (Shardless Agents, Stoneforge Mystics and Thopter/Sword)

G1 the deck does what it does and after stalling him with Glacial Chasm and landing Titan I go infinite (again ). G2 he applies a lot of pressure, gets a Grip for my only needle and proceeds to waste my butt-saving Chasm...not a nice feeling G3 I'm in the game very soon and after a Titan lands I roll again.

Semifinal: The same Maverick deck I met in T3

Not much to say here...I was probably low on sugar (that coupled with the fact that I'm becoming too old to play games was probably a killer ) but I was never in the game both G1 and G2. Well I also had to mull to 5 G1 and 6 G2 and didn't help :D G2 he managed to waste one of my Cloudposts and proceeded to use Surgical Extraction on it, the game didn't last long afterward...

So a good performance for the deck, it ran smoothly all day (except the semis ) and was able to get wins out of the blue even when under critical pressure. The more I play the deck, the more I discover interactions and interesting lines of play, it's a lot of fun and extremely powerful.

If I bring the deck out at the next tournament (I generally change deck to offer a moving target) I will probably redo the sideboard to focus less on the storm match-up and raise the number of needle effects and artifact protection (Spellskite seems very good for that, thx for the suggestion).

[Rock Lee]

Hey guys, I topped 4 a tournament yesterday with the following list:

I will probably redo the sideboard to focus less on the storm match-up and raise the number of needle effects and artifact protection (Spellskite seems very good for that, thx for the suggestion).

Congrats on your top 4 showing!

I put in the spellskite for exactly the tempo/protection reasons you're mentioning. It buys you time in so many ways after they've just taken out most of their creature hate.

I agree on the hypoglycemia as well. Most decks can afford to have a haggard and beat player pilot their decks to victory just from muscle memory and extensive testing when they are reaching the bottom of the barrel. Not this deck though. Too much thinking is required. I strongly suggest candy and soluble fiber!