What do you guys think we need to cut for a black splash with 4 Thoughtseize main?
I am playing this deck since GP Ghent and I'm very, very happy with it so far, since I'm getting quite good results with it. Went 1st, 1st, 3rd, 3rd at my last 4 local tournaments, for example.
Currently playing this list:
2 Island
3 Volcanic Island
3 Misty Rainforest
3 Ancient Tomb
4 Scalding Tarn
1 Mountain
2 City of Traitors
1 Tropical Island
1 Polluted Delta
3 Show and Tell
4 Burning Wish
3 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
2 Griselbrand
3 Daze
1 Spell Pierce
4 Force of Will
4 Brainstorm
3 Preordain
4 Omniscience
4 Ponder
1 Overmaster
2 Flusterstorm
2 Intuition
Sideboard:
2 Red Elemental Blast
3 Defense Grid
4 Leyline of Sanctity
1 Time of Need
1 Grapeshot
1 Show and Tell
1 Petals of Insight
1 Pyroclasm
1 Overmaster
Right now I really want to try out a black splash for 4 Thouhtseize main, because it really sucks losing to 1-Off Oblivion Rings out of my opponents sideboard. Happened twice the last 2 tournaments and were my only losses.
I think cutting a Mountain and a Tropical Island for 2 Underground Sea is an easy choice. As well as cutting a Defense Grid in my sideboard for Eye of Nowhere, to get an additional out for O-Ring.
I am not so sure what to cut for 4 Thoughtseize, though. The lonely mainboard Overmaster gets a cut, that's for sure. Aside from that, I really don't know what to cut. Don't want to cut any cantrips, since we really need them for our 3-card-combo. Pretty much leaves the choices to either Daze or Flusterstorm/Spell Pierce. Right now, I guess I'm taking out 3 Daze.
What do you guys think?
you can take out the two flusterstorms and the overmaster for 3 thoughtseizes and one in the board. or you could try stifle / trickbind in the boardOriginally Posted by Achamian
With Omniscience + EtI it's also possible to make an infinite storm count: If you cast the second Emrakul and shuffle the graveyard back into your library, you can just use the cantrips (+personal tutor) to find EtI again and repeat.
I'm planning on replacing Petals + Grapeshot with Enter the Infinite and Spiraling Embers. It's much more straightforward than building up storm count and you'll have a handful of counters, emrakuls, and griselbrands if needed. It's better at getting around a Thalia. Seems like less can go wrong. Thoughts?
the nice part about petals is its not unreasonable to burning wish for petals and just hardcast it. also the grapeshot can in theory kill hatebears and such (i've never done this even when playing tes)
Got 4th last weekend in a 4 round legacy event (17 people)
with
1 jace
1 intuition
2 sneak
3 gris
3 em
3 omni
3 daze
3 show and tell
3 preordain
4 ponder
4 brainstorm
4 burning wish
4 force of will
3 lotus petals
3 volcanic islands
2 islands
1 mountain
3 ancient tomb
2 city of traitors (-1 of these for an island)
4 scalding
4 deltas
board
3 stifle
2 surgical (could be cage, im really debating what is better against dredge cage can stop them dead but i wonder if surgicaling therapy and racing is the way to go, this way they can't interact with their board (claims and such).
1 shattering spree (i think this should be cut for another surgical, you are rarely ever going to wish for this, its a hold over as a way to beat a ensnaring bridge plus burning wish for these effects are so rarely used)
3 pyroblasts
1 time of need
1 grapeshot
1 petals of insight
1 pyroclasm
1 overmaster
1 show and tell
(oh wish boards i'll quit you one day)
round one U/w cb stoneforge 2-0
mull to 6 lost die roll
(1)he had a counterbalance in play and know 3's go go gris
mull to 6
(2) he scooped pretty early to a gris or an omni or something i don't remember.
dazes out in pyroblasts. he makes toooo many land drops and i was on the draw.
round 2 junk 2-1 lost die roll
mull to 6
(1) redundancy beats his discard and he dies to a sneak attack
mull to 6
(2) my landdds where are they, he wastes and vindicates me annnnnd i die.
(3) i cast a show and tell with petal open, he smiles and puts in his card i put in gris and stifle his oring trigger
I boarded out intuition and 2 force of wills which was realllly akward when i use gris and can't save him, but i figured i don't want to force things against his deck, it could have been wrong since you want to stop knight, although i figured the stifles are one mana forces and that if gris gets swords and i draw 7 ill win anyway.
round 3 rug lost die roll 0-2
good guy with a reallly bad habit of eot brainstorm on turn one. Please for anyone reading this, respect brainstorm more then this.
(1) waste waste then threat
mull
(2) i die to a delver =(
boarded out jace, 1 force, 1 petal
for pyros, i thought about stifles to screw his mana but it was ultimately decided to be too cute.
round 4 burn lost die roll 2-0
poor poor poor burn player
mull to 6
(1) his turn one, mountain grim lavamancer. mine petal petal land show emrakul, he puts in the 2 drop with fading counters. plays it like a champ doesn't scoop and lets me attack.
(2) kill him on turn two, this time he scoops to the emmie
no board for mono red, although i guess pyroclasm can come in
So now a message,
I really do think this deck is incredibly powerful, the island over the city is to lower the mulligan rate. i had alot of double sol-land hands and (as noted above alot of mulligan)
This deck has a draw 7 in it and multiple (9, 10 if you count jace, must answer threats) so it makes up for the initial card disadvantage by having compact combos, don't be shy to mulligan.
Would Enter the Infinite replace the current win-cons?
For the record:
Enter the Infinite
8UUUU
Sorcery
Draw cards equal to the number of cards in your library, then put a card from your hand on top of your library. You have no maximum hand size until your next turn
"Don't just hbe an idea - have them all."
-Niv-Mizzet
that was asked previously, on the same page in which you posted this. and my response is still no. its way to much of a win more card, its only castable off of omniscience thus offers less then petals of insight in function.
Not necessarily, it offers a mana efficient win condition thru' Thalia without having to devote to a Time of Need in the SB, so even tho' it's less functional than Petals of Insight in and of itself it opens another space in the SB for something more relevant.
thalia isn't a problem in this situation because of the time of need though (burning wish (1 mana) time of need (1) creature) vs (burning wish (1) draw a million spell(1) emrakul (discard the other emrakuls or you deck if they are above 15) . I would rather have the ability to play a really bad draw three.
I'm still not convinced... How often do you need to use a burning wish to get a Petals of insight to hardcast? I haven't played this deck much so I don't really have a grasp for this but it just doesn't seem like a good option.
Enter the Infinite essentially gives you all of your win conditions at once with all of your counters to back them up. I can see how it could be deemed overkill. But it also seems like you can get around anything with this whereas Petals+Grapeshot kill has ways of being stopped (i.e. flusterstorm, thalia).
I'll probably try it if not just for the style points :)
Also, thanks for the writeup and congrats on your top4. That must have felt good stifling the o-ring!
You aren't going to run out of cards...you will have every counter in your library available to stop anything that would make you draw...also if you somehow can't win on that turn you have one card in your library to draw the next turn...and then if you somehow don't win that turn you will discard down to 7 EOT and as long as you discard an emrakul you will be back to a normal library and a 7 card hand of your choice.
(discard the other emrakuls or you deck if they are above 15)
what were you getting at? i said that you just discard emrakuls.
the issue with the card is that its flashy and in no way is better then the options we already have. the point i was making with petals is AT LEAST YOU CAN CAST IT. where as this flashy 12 mana spell in the current builds isn't worth it.
also if you are playing this then the only win conditions it gives you are emrakul and griss or what ever other spell you put in your board to replace the grapeshot.
I don't understand how its no way better? You have your entire library in your hand. You have every option available to you... You can almost certainly stop any sort of counter your opponent may have. I don't see how you can lose.
However, I see ways to lose if you use a burning wish to get a time of need to get one creature...or using a burning wish to go for a petals+grapeshot finish.
In your example with your opponent having more than 15 life you mention burning wish->time of need->emrakul combo...which gets you one creature out...but with burning wish->ETI->you can try to play a spiraling embers (replacement for grapeshot) and end it right away and if that somehow doesn't work you play emrakul AND griselbrand and then swing for 22 the next turn... how is this not better?
As FinalFortune mentions as well, ETI could free up a SB slot because it effectively can serve the primary purpose of petals of insight, which is a combo piece for a "big direct damage finish" and it also gets all of your creatures into your hand so it replaces time of need.
i can't help you. just do what you want i don't think its the correct way to build this deck.
Let me also point out that you don't need your entire library in your hand. What possible counter would they have if they let resolve show and tell....
this just doesn't make sense to me why you both think that this is the stronger card. my arguement is Why would you put these cards in the sideboard over the cheaper cards that you can cast.
you want to cut 3 spells in the board the time of need the grapeshot and the spire for the 12 mana, but what you gain in one sideboard slot is negated by how uncastable these cards are. yes it feels really bad to use a burning wish to get a time of need and hard cast it. but it just seems better to have castable wish targets.
-Petals of Insight
-Time of Need
-Grapeshot
+Enter the Infinite
+Spiraling Embers
+that 3rd surgical extraction you want to put in your SB...you can leave your shattering spree in.
I'm not sure why you can't help me. We're all here to learn and improve. If you think that I'm incorrect in my build then you should be able to at least give me some examples why.
I'm also interested in hearing other people's opinions on this.
So I take it you feel that once Omniscience is in play with a wish in hand then it's game over anyways. Playing ETI goes above and beyond what you need to do and your better off with castable wish targets for games that don't go as smooth. ok, I can buy that argument.
I personally still think the added benefit of replacing the "Petals/Grapeshot/Time of Need" with "ETI/Embers/extra SB slot" is greater than the lost benefit of being able to hardcast time of need/petals/grapeshot...but I admit I haven't tested it so I can definitely be wrong here.
I can agree with this statement and also admit i havent tested it, it might be correct. if you have questions or want to test on cockatrice feel free to message me (all invited)
Guys, ETI does not replace Time of Need. There is one big reason to run Time of Need - Gaddock Teeg. The reason why this deck is better than Dream Halls or Hive Mind is because its kills attack from too many angles to stop, so throwing one away is stupid.
(The other reasons to run Time of Need are Thalia and Canonist, which ETI is essentially equivalent against.)
But I agree ETI saves you a valuable sideboard slot as long as you have Eye - you can just cut a dedicated kill card and rely on recurring Eye and battling with Emrakul. Rekk, why would you ever ever ever cast Petals? That's awful, and it's not even been close to coming up in the 25+ matches I've played with the deck. Wanting to cast Time of Need if you really need to S&T to not die is legitimate though.
welll hmmmmmm let me think times i have done that.
u/w miracles when you build up lands and have run out of gass you top deck burning wish draw 3.
same goes for heavy discard decks.
also i have cast petals without omni more then time of need.
a real question is why would you limit your thinking to
" Rekk, why would you ever ever ever cast Petals? That's awful"
why place restrictions on your options
sidenote
http://www.channelfireball.com/artic...-legacy-event/
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