[Deck] U/R Delver

[blindspotxxx]

No idea some lists run 0 some run 4. I chose 4, it's up to you really. I just want more flexibility and snapcaster allows that

[Heresy]

No idea some lists run 0 some run 4. I chose 4, it's up to you really. I just want more flexibility and snapcaster allows that

There's a dozen list with 2 Snapcaster Mage on TC Deck. I've toyed with 0, 2 and 4 copies and found out that I prefer playing with 2 because they're mostly useful when you run out of gas and I don't like drawing them too early.

[Andrew.Schneider]

There's a dozen list with 2 Snapcaster Mage on TC Deck. I've toyed with 0, 2 and 4 copies and found out that I prefer playing with 2 because they're mostly useful when you run out of gas and I don't like drawing them too early.

Seeing less than 4 snapcasters in these lists makes me sad

[Hapless Researcher]

Seeing less than 4 snapcasters in these lists makes me sad

I agree completely. Snap is one of your best tools for reach and disruption.

Now, I do actually have a question.


Is it worth it to run V Clique, and if so would Riptide Lab be worth a slot?

[JDK]

Is it worth it to run V Clique, and if so would Riptide Lab be worth a slot?

I am sure this has been adressed at least once already in here. ;)

General rule is: Search and/or try it yourself. Or at least think about it and post your own thoughts.

[Hapless Researcher]

I am sure this has been adressed at least once already in here. ;)

General rule is: Search and/or try it yourself. Or at least think about it and post your own thoughts.

Apologies, I'm new.

[Megadeus]

Snapcaster is half of the reason this deck seems so good... He is an extra bolt + a body to shock your opponent each turn with. He gives you a large amount of reach.

[blindspotxxx]

Something totally new and innovative :) Looks like a fun and powerful deck.

http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=3799&d=222602

[attemanden]

have anyone tried a couple of blood moons in SB?.. seems pretty awesome in some matchups?...

[Vilhis]

These questions go mostly to Andrew Schneider, but of course everybody can share their oppinions. Questions are based on this.

1) If you would include one more Price of Progress in your list, what would you likely to be cutting?

2) As a previous burn player, I really understand SB Lava Spikes. But would it be better to replace them with somethign like Forked Bolt and/or Searing Blaze? They are much Like Lava Spike in the matchups you board them in, but you could also board them against tribal decks like goblins and elves.

3) How do you board against combo?

[Sigyn]

Even I'm not Andrew Schneider I've been playing his list for a while, he can answer your questions much better than me, but i'll try anyway

1) If you would include one more Price of Progress in your list, what would you likely to be cutting?

If your metagame is not a heavy RUG one (like mine) i'll suggest cutting 1 land, a 20 land manabase is important against stifle+wasteland but if you don't expect that, you can run 18-19 pretty easily -maybe 19 if you are playing 4 snapcaster mages-. Last weekend I played 20 and i got flooded many times, my brainstorms weren't enough to solve that issue. If you don't want to cut a land you can cut 1 Snapcaster mage (I like playing 4 due to snapcaster+swords which can stabilize the field pretty well against our first guys), if you don't expect combo you can cut 1 counter (daze), but in my opinion 2 Price of progress is fine, nowadays many decks can play a resilient manabase so they're not as effective as they were in the past, you also have 3 lava spike in the board which can help you a lot against most of the "non-basic manabase" decks (BUG, RUG, Maverick)

2) As a previous burn player, I really understand SB Lava Spikes. But would it be better to replace them with somethign like Forked Bolt and/or Searing Blaze? They are much Like Lava Spike in the matchups you board them in, but you could also board them against tribal decks like goblins and elves.

Lava spike are for the RUG or BUG matchup, Tarmogoyf is really hard to beat for this deck if you are facing a skilled RUG player (those who know to play around submerge... etc), is a wall for your guys and you need to spend lots of burn to kill it, the plan is trying to play a "burn build", mostly beacause burn is a bad matchup for those decks, the plan is try to burn them fast, to make tarmogoyf useless.

3) How do you board against combo?

Andrew wrote a SB guide in his article at SCG.com check it out ;), he didn't write about High tide or ANT match so i'll write you my SB plan against them! ;).

ANT:

-3 Chain lightning (Tapping you on your turn is bad against them)
-2 Price of progress

+4 Surgical extraction (Past in flames and hand info)
+1 FOW.

I'm not sure about pyroblast against cantrips, but i feel is not necessary.

High Tide:

-2 Price of Progress
-4 Chain lightning

+1 FOW
+2 Pyroblast
+3 Surgical extraction

[karaxu]

// Deck file for Magic Workstation (http://www.magicworkstation.com)

// Lands
3 [ZEN] Misty Rainforest
4 [ZEN] Scalding Tarn
2 [ZEN] Island (3)
2 [ZEN] Mountain (3)
3 [ZEN] Arid Mesa
4 [B] Volcanic Island

// Creatures
3 [TO] Grim Lavamancer
4 [ISD] Snapcaster Mage
4 [ISD] Delver of Secrets/Insectile Aberration
4 [ZEN] Goblin Guide

// Spells
4 [B] Lightning Bolt
4 [LRW] Ponder
4 [IA] Brainstorm
3 [AL] Force of Will
4 [ZEN] Spell Pierce
1 [NE] Daze
1 [LG] Chain Lightning
4 [AVR] Thunderous Wrath
2 [ROE] Forked Bolt

// Sideboard
SB: 1 [IA] Pyroblast
SB: 4 [NPH] Surgical Extraction
SB: 2 [SHM] Smash to Smithereens
SB: 1 [DS] Echoing Truth
SB: 1 [CMD] Flusterstorm
SB: 2 [SC] Sulfuric Vortex
SB: 2 [B] Red Elemental Blast
SB: 2 [NE] Submerge

Played this in a LGS legacy event with 10 people.

A quick report:

R1 vs Merfolk 2-0
Got burn for his fishes, a miracled thunderous wrath sped up my clock.

R2 vs Miracles 2-1
Managed to win a close game 3 when he is at one life topdecked lightning bolt ftw!

R3 vs Esperblade 2-1
Another close game, my vortex always got answered a turn after, but eventually burn gets there.

R4 vs RUG 0-2
Can't touch nimble mongoose >,<

Ended up 2nd and got 3 RTR packs for my efforts.

Thoughts on Thunderous Wrath: so far it has been good for me, i think playing four is the right number alongside with 4 ponder and 4 brainstorm.
Really missing price of progress though, might squeeze two in the sideboard.

[FANAttIC]

Played legacy champs in GP Bochum side event last week. 130+ players. 8 rounds.
I tried 2 T. Wrath and had some fun moments, like t1 Delver, t2 flip into Wrath, smash, but also wished it was something else when I had it in my hand, no Brainstorm in sight and Lavamancer just need that one card in yard but it's stuck in my hand. I will retire TW for now. No idea who won (my result is not important ).
My goblin opponents had Chalice of the Void against me (all three of them; they have Cavern and Vial to not care) and it would be a blowout if I didn't had Smash to Smithereens.
Elves, goblins and burn were a problem (first two because of great card advantage and last one because of higher focus) so maybe some number of Beb and/or Electrickery will find a slot or two in sideboard.

[blindspotxxx]

My guess on Thunderous Wrath, a good number would be 1 or 4. Drawing a dead thunderous wrath would be bad but top decking another off sets the 1st thunderous wrath stuck in your hand in a way. The singleton would be the lowest risk you can take for the card

[Exardus]

Hi guys I have been following this thread for quite some time and u rly helped me in understending this deck even further.

i have been playing this deck for 3 months now and have played different lists of it.

Currently my deck list is:

creatures:
4x Snapcaster mage
4x Delver
4x Goblin Guide
2x Grim lavamancer

Spells:
4x Brainstorms
4x Ponders
4x Lightning Bolts
3x Chain Lightnings
3x Force of Will
2x Daze
4x Spell pierce
2x Fire/Ice
2x Price of Progress

Lands:
4x Misty Rainforest
4x U/r fetch (cant remember its name)
2x Arid Mesa
3x Volcanic Islands
2x Mountains
3x Islands

Sideboard:
3x Submerge
3x Surgical extraction
2x Smash to smiteries
2x Sulfur elemental
2x Pyroblast
2x Sulfuric Vortex
1x Force of Will

So basically I am in doubt regarding Fire/ice and PoP.

I think that Fire/Ice is to slow and sometimes it is a dead card in the late game where it cost to much etc. I think I will replace it with Thunderous wrath since it brings even more tempo and can be deadly in this deck.

What do you think that I cut 2 fire/ice and 2 PoP, for 1 chain lightning and 3 thunderous wrath?

I found that experienced players often play around PoP, even Rug players very often play around it with wastelands.

With thunderous wrath i have solid dmg for 1 mana.

Any suggestions or critics are welcome :D

Best regards

[FANAttIC]

4 Thunderous Wrath might be right number but I wouldn't cut 2 PoP's from main (they demand reaction from an opponent and puts them in weird spot, 2 Prices are ideal).
Some numbers should be changed for 4 TW because they don't play nicely with 4 Snapcaster + 3 Lavamancer (the usual) configuration.
You won't allways find Brainstorm, you might find Ponder but TW could be in your starting hand.
1 TW is not a big risk but it has hidden cost, you have to "look" for a miracle each draw step and that is something you have to think about instead of focusing more on a gamestate.
Further, you are giving up free information (you might do that even though you are not playing miracles for bluff effect but I'm not sure its worth it).
My deckbuilding skills are poor so I won't be playing Wraths for now.

[Andrew.Schneider]

These questions go mostly to Andrew Schneider, but of course everybody can share their oppinions. Questions are based on this.

1) If you would include one more Price of Progress in your list, what would you likely to be cutting?

2) As a previous burn player, I really understand SB Lava Spikes. But would it be better to replace them with somethign like Forked Bolt and/or Searing Blaze? They are much Like Lava Spike in the matchups you board them in, but you could also board them against tribal decks like goblins and elves.

3) How do you board against combo?

Sigyn's answers really close to mine.

1) I'd probably cut a Spell Pierce or a Daze. I wish I was comfortable going down to 19 land, but like Sigyn said, you need all 20 for RUG.

2) One of my good friends, who is extremely smart when it comes to legacy, tried to get me to play Searing Blaze instead. My reasoning for not was the times when RUG has just a Nimble Mongoose or 2 in play or when you can't make the land drop to turn it on. Blaze might be the right choice but I wanted the guaranteed 3 damage. I wouldn't fault anyone for playing Searing Blaze over Lava Spike. As for forked bolt, I don' t think the random times you get a 2 for 1 is worth the times when it does 2 not 3 damage to the face.

3) Agreed with Sigyn again, although I'm not sure I'd always bring in all 4 surgicals against ANT but if they're playing the red past in flames version I would.

[blindspotxxx]

Philippine Legacy Wars 5 Tournament Report by Blindspotxxx: (Total Players 75+)

I went with this build:

UR Delver

Creatures: 15

4 Delver of Secrets
4 Snapcaster Mage
4 Goblin Guide
3 Grim Lavamancer

Spells: 26

4 Lightning Bolt
4 Chain Lightning
2 Price of Progress
4 Brainstorm
3 Ponder
3 Force of Will
3 Spell Pierce
2 Daze
1 Thunderous Wrath

Lands: 19

4 Volcanic Island
2 Island
2 Mountain
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Arid Mesa
3 Misty Rainforest

Sideboard: 15

1 Force of Will
2 Red Elemental Blast
2 Sulfuric Vortex
2 Smash to Smithereens
1 Envelop
1 Thunderous Wrath
1 Lava Spike
1 Fireblast
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Grafdigger's Cage

Field was full of Miracles and an assortment of all the decks in Legacy.

[karaxu]

Went to the same tournament as blindspot (Legacy Wars V)

Played with the full 4 thunderous wraths!

Quick matchup report:

R1 vs RUG
Won 2-0, he mulled to 5 on game 2 and I just drew more business than him.

R2 vs RUG
Lost 0-2, he also mulled to 5 on game 2, but somehow got the better draws.

R3 vs Omniscience
Draw, Two grim lavamancer's activation away from sealing the deal but we were down to the last turn.

R4 vs Bant
Won 2-0, thunderous wrath was good to me this round.

R5 vs Miracles
Won 2-1, Got locked counter-top game 1, managed to recover with burn game 2, and got 2 thunderous wraths! game3.

R6 vs Miracles
Lost 0-2, Game two I tried to resolve a sulfuric vortex with him at 3 life and me at 8 life, he responded with a swords to plowshares on his angel, then an end of turn snapcaster to make the vortex work against me.

R7 vs Nic Fit
Lost 1-2, Really bad matchup, with all the life gaining creatures and the recurring punishing fire.

3-3-1 after the swiss.

Thoughts on the deck. Thunderous wrath gave it more reach and explosiveness, I stand by playing four if you want to use the card, either use it or play none of it. However the matchup against "fair" decks (nic fit and rug) are tough and I might switch decks if I see more of it in our meta.

[Megadeus]

Is vendilion clique any good in this deck? Maybe not main but side board? Not the most aggressive creature but out is a clock and againstcombo in addition to being some sort of disruption.