[Deck] Nic Fit (GBx Explorer Zenith Control)

[Blastoderm]

@Qweerios

Slaughter games definitely seems strong. I use two Memoricide in sb and I've been quite happy with them. Punishing fire seems weak considering it requires RR to bring back and use. Abrupt decay is most likely better in this spot as this deck doesn't seem to have problems against aggro anyways. I guess it's best to avoid spells that require two mana of the chosen third color. How is Vraska? Two Primal Hunter has been so good...is another 5 mana pw too much?

Check the list in 3rd place:
http://www.mtgquebec.com/viewtopic.php?t=6783

It's a straight green black, although I don't like some cards in the maindeck (hymn,geist..lack of tops?) it does use red only for SB options (slaughter games and REB).

Even though I've always been a fan of GBw nic fit due to swords and pridemage (gsz for wickerbough was annoying due to high cost), the printing of abrupt decay has led me to consider GB and using R soley for sb and maybe a broodmate in the main.

[Qweerios]

Scapewish is the only decent Nic Fit version that I haven't sleeved up because I got rid of my Taigas and Badlands early this year. I did try it out online and I didn't like it. I really dislike the manabase and the deckbuilding constraints that come with Valakut and Scapeshift. I am also not a fan of slow unprotected combos. It really plays like a different deck than Nic Fit and doesn't prey as hard on decks like Maverick, Rock, and Miracle (which is a questionable matchup).

Scarab was fine in the SB but wasn't needed against Miracles. It might have been more useful in the Rector version because I didn't have access to Negates at the time, but in BUG, it really doesn't pull its weight.

I agree with you that Huntmaster is underwhelming. Broodmate Dragon is about the only maindeck red card I would consider for Nic Fit. Two flying blockers with 1 red mana in the cost is as good as it gets for the top of the curve, Wurm doesn't come close.

Thinking back at REB/Pyro, I wonder how can it be as good as Negate? It hits blue permanents but, aside from Jace, they havent been a problem at all. I think that if I am to splash 1 land for 4 SB counterspells, i'd rather have Negate than REB. I think it is reasonable to have 1 Tropical Island for 4 SB Negates since you won't bring them in against decks that utilize Wasteland.

Vraska is my Maelstrom Pulse #2. She isn't the most impressive, but like Liliana, you are left with something to tick and eventually re-use so it makes a difference in the long run.

[Blastoderm]

So technically you could just go GB and use blue for negates in the sb.

[litenkatt]

I'd say the GB version got much better since the printing of Abrupt Decay. The only way RUG would beat me before was an early flipped delver + 10 counterspells backup. Abrupt Decay solves that problem. Sulfuric Vortex was also somewhat a problem if they had counterspells backup. Again, Abrupt Decay shines here! There are many more benefits of this card, counterbalance etc. I'd say this card is a 4-of!


I don't like the Scapewish version niether mainly because of the lack of efficacy of top. Without fetches, its almost a dead card.. I feel that the top is soo important to nic fit and I wish there were other cards we could use that draws cards (without playing blue). Bob, Phyrexian arena, sylvan library are all good cards but they die to deed unfortunately

[Cire_dk]

I'd say the GB version got much better since the printing of Abrupt Decay. The only way RUG would beat me before was an early flipped delver + 10 counterspells backup. Abrupt Decay solves that problem. Sulfuric Vortex was also somewhat a problem if they had counterspells backup. Again, Abrupt Decay shines here! There are many more benefits of this card, counterbalance etc. I'd say this card is a 4-of!


I don't like the Scapewish version niether mainly because of the lack of efficacy of top. Without fetches, its almost a dead card.. I feel that the top is soo important to nic fit and I wish there were other cards we could use that draws cards (without playing blue). Bob, Phyrexian arena, sylvan library are all good cards but they die to deed unfortunately

TOP does have its use in scapefit. It gives you a better chance to find a card you need and with all the sac outlets you will be able to shuffle your library. Fetches are of course a nicer and more efficient way. What I liked while testing scapewish , is the fact that in stalled games the combo gets you the win.
Every version of Nic Fit has its own strength and weaknesses so playing a version you like and know is in my opinion the best version to play.
The meta is to diverse to gear up for every match up and even then we often get unexpected pairings as we can read in the different tournament reports.
So have fun and keep your wonderfull ideas coming.

[Yoric]

Sorry to hear that Arianrhod won't be at the Open in Baltimore this weekend. I will be there, bringing this list (subject to your comments/approval):

Creatures (16)
4x Veteran Explorer
2x Academy Rector
1x Scavenging Ooze
1x Fierce Empath
1x Eternal Witness
1x Starved Rusalka
1x Wickerbough Elder
1x Grave Titan
1x Yosei, the Morning Star
1x Sigarda, Host of Herons
1x Sun Titan
1x Deranged Hermit

Instants / Sorceries (13)
4x Cabal Therapy
4x Green Sun's Zenith
1x Maelstrom Pulse
1x Abrupt Decay
1x Diabolic Intent
1x Path to Exile
1x Skeletal Scrying

Enchantments (5)
3x Pernicious Deed
1x Phyrexian Arena
1x Recurring Nightmare

Planeswalkers (2)
2x Liliana of the Veil

Artifacts (2)
2x Sensei's Divining Top

Lands (23)
4x Bayou
4x Verdant Catacombs
3x Marsh Flats
3x Forest
2x Plains
2x Swamp
1x Scrubland
1x Temple Garden (Savannah, if I can find someone to lend it to me)
1x Wooded Foothills (Windswept Heath, see above)
1x Phyrexian Tower
1x Volrath's Stronghold

Sideboard
3x Leyline of the Void
2x Memoricide
2x Choke
2x Gaddock Teeg
2x Extirpate
2x Thoughtseize
1x Circle of Protection: Red
1x Qasali Pridemage


Looking at it written out like this it seems like a lot of fatties compared to the other lists, but my planeswalker isn't really a win-con. My experience playing with Recurring Nightmare is that, while it may be win-more, it ends games quickly, which can be an issue with this deck when up against Miracles or other grindy lists. As people have mentioned many times before, Yosei is a beast, and usually one timely sacrifice will lead to a concession. I have many, many hours of experience with close to this list online (-1 Rector, -1 Abrupt Decay, -1 Volrath's Stronghold, -1 Diabolic Intent, +2 Maelstrom Pulse, +1 Go for the Throat, +1 Thrun) and made the offline changes due to paper availability (I have the cards in paper but not online).

The sideboard is a mess. I shouldn't be playing 3x Leyline of the Void, I don't think, but I haven't much actual competitive experience (I just read massive amounts of The Source / TMD, play free matches online, and watch a lot of footage) and I have a real fear of Dredge. I may switch them for 3x Krosan Grip to try to get a handle on the Miracles match-up. I don't think I can get Carpet of Flowers in time for the tournament and SCG is sold out.

Anyway, please shred the list! I have a pretty wide selection of common BG/BGw Nic Fit cards available, and can probably find other cards you mention (besides Carpet of Flowers and, unfortunately, Nether Void).

[kabards]

Sorry to hear that Arianrhod won't be at the Open in Baltimore this weekend. I will be there, bringing this list (subject to your comments/approval):

The sideboard is a mess. I shouldn't be playing 3x Leyline of the Void, I don't think, but I haven't much actual competitive experience (I just read massive amounts of The Source / TMD, play free matches online, and watch a lot of footage) and I have a real fear of Dredge. I may switch them for 3x Krosan Grip to try to get a handle on the Miracles match-up. I don't think I can get Carpet of Flowers in time for the tournament and SCG is sold out.

Anyway, please shred the list! I have a pretty wide selection of common BG/BGw Nic Fit cards available, and can probably find other cards you mention (besides Carpet of Flowers and, unfortunately, Nether Void).

maybe you should remove the Leyline of the Void, and switch it to, relic of progenitus or nihil spellbomb if your meta will be invaded of Dredge, Reanimator etc.. about the Miracle match up, increase your Abrupt Decay, you already have a Pernicious Deed so nothing to worry about it. If OmniTel / Show and Tel meta put some Oblivion Ring.

[unemployer]

@Yoric: Why that much graveyard hate? Are graveyard decks that heavy in your area? I suggest you remove the Leylines and place 1 Rest in Peace. It fights against dredge and reanimator but it also stops your rector and explorer (since they dont go to the graveyard). You can provide 2 slots for your own use like Leyline of Sanctity, O.ring, etc.
Also place 1 Nether Void or 1 Leyline of Sanctity if you are on a budget.

[Yoric]

@kabards, unemployer:

Nihil Spellbomb and Tormod's Crypt feel better to me than unilateral graveyard hate like RiP and Relic, and they can both be retrieved with Eternal Witness (unlike Relic). How about -3 Leyline of the Void, +2 Nihil Spellbomb, +1 Oblivion Ring (for SnT)?

I read somewhere recently (www.reddit.com/r/spikes ?) that Krosan Grip is the real beating against CounterTop because SDT is the key piece (lets the CounterTopper search for more Counterbalances / end-the-game-even-without-Counterbalance spells), and Grip can take out Top while AD can really only hit the Counterbalance. I think some mixture of AD and KG is probably right. I have access to 2 more Abrupt Decay and 4 Krosan Grip.

[EpicLevelCommoner]

Honestly, the more I think about it, the less appealing Decay looks. As Yoric said, it's only really good against CounterTop, and even then we have easy access to Krosan Grip. Actually took my 2 out in my list for a 2nd Pulse and a 4th Deed.

Now if it had Split Second, then that would be gravy.

[Claymore]

It's common practice for Miracle Top to float 3cc when playing against green decks. Not the end solution simply due to needing to have a 3cc in your deck, but it is definitely something they do.

[Yoric]

It's common practice for Miracle Top to float 3cc when playing against green decks. Not the end solution simply due to needing to have a 3cc in your deck, but it is definitely something they do.

Yeah, this is what happens each time I play Miracles. I think having a split of AD and KG allows for the play of Decay on Counterbalance, let it resolve, then Grip the Top. Krosan Grip can also deal with any piece of the Leyline/RiP + Helm combo, while Decay only hits RiP.

[thra1l]

Playing a tourney tonight (probably ~10 people). We have a weird meta consisting of (lots of) Burn, U/R Delver, RUG Delver, Painter Stone, U/W Miracles, 12Post, Jund, Elves (sometimes), Dredge (rarely). I'm thinking of doing a blue splash for Hydroblast and Negate, though I could do a red splash for Slaughter Games and REB as well. Here's my list, though it is pretty weird (such as main deck Kitchen Finks, but it's for burn). This is my first time playing this deck with a splash for sideboard (I used to play BUG with Jaces and BS mainboard).

// Deck: Nic Fit (61)

// Lands 22
1 Tropical Island
3 Bayou
4 Forest
3 Misty Rainforest
1 Phyrexian Tower
3 Swamp
2 Treetop Village
4 Verdant Catacombs
1 Volrath's Stronghold

// Creatures 13
2 Eternal Witness
2 Primeval Titan
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Thragtusk
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
4 Veteran Explorer
1 Tarmogoyf
1 Kitchen Finks

// Spells 26
3 Abrupt Decay
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Green Sun's Zenith
2 Innocent Blood
2 Liliana of the Veil
2 Maelstrom Pulse
3 Pernicious Deed
1 Recurring Nightmare
3 Sensei's Divining Top
2 Thoughtseize

// Sideboard
4 Negate
3 Hydroblast
2 Carpet of Flowers
1 Extirpate
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Kitchen Finks
1 Thoughtseize
1 Memoricide

The Negates are for Miracles, 12Post, Painter Stone. Hydroblasts are for Painter Stone, Burn, Jund, maybe RUG Delver. Carpet of Flowers, Surgical, Extirpate, Thoughtseize, and Memoricide are obvious. Kitchen Finks for extra help against burn and U/R Delver.

Some candidates for the sideboard would be Hymn, Engineered Plague, more grave hate (Nihil Spellbomb or something), and then REB and Slaughter games with a Red splash (which would replace Hydroblast and Negate).

Any suggestions would be highly appreciated, I'm willing to make some changes! :)

[TiMeWaLk]

Good evening,

I have been toying with a BGr version of Nic Fit. The reason why I chose Nic Fit is because it crushes UGr tempo decks while having decent match ups against other non combo decks. The red splash is mainly for Punishing Fire (PF) which I find very adapted to the deck. It gets rid of planeswalker which can be terrible when the opponent does not let us resolve a pulse or vindicate. On top of that, it can deal with all the small creatures in the beginning of the game.

Here is my list:

4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Veteran Explorer
1 Eternal Witness
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
1 Wickerbough Elder
1 Huntmaster of the Fells
1 Scavenging Ooze

4 Punishing Fire
3 Abrupt Decay
4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Thoughtseize
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Sensei's Divining Top
2 Liliana of the Veil

4 Grove of the Burnwillows
2 Forest
2 Swamp
2 Mountain
1 Phyrexian Tower
4 Verdant Catacombs
1 Bayou
1 Badlands
1 Volrath's Stronghold
1 Taiga
2 Bloodstained Mire
1 Thawing Glaciers

I have a lot of non-conventional things in the list such as 4 Deathrite Shaman (DS), 1 Thawing Glaciers and the absence of Pernicious Deed. I don't run deed because the deck try to kill or discard progressively what is annoying or to delay it until a "big" Green Sun Zenith (GSZ) can be casted. So far it went really good without them. Thawing Glaciers is just a recent addition which I wanted to test. Probably it is a bit too cute.

I come here to get additionnal ideas // comments before taking the deck to an event (and not only test it online). I am almost settled on the main deck but I struggle for the sideboard. What do you use to get a decent match up against combo? I have few ideas such as:

Red elemental blast
Slaughter games
More discard
Extirpate // Surginal ( coupled with discard against combo + good versus dredge )
Gaddock? (I can add a land in the SB too if necessary)
Blood Moon? (can be surprising for certain decks)

My problem is that I cannot have the same hate for Ad Nauseam combo or Show and Tell... which makes my life difficult. Any ideas?

TW

[litenkatt]

@thra1

Hello

I'd cut
-1 Primeval Titan. 1 is more than enough if you run 4 gsz.
-1 Recurring Nightmare. This is only because I personaly don't like this card in these type of decks. I would run it in a deck with Yosei. Again, not saying its the right choice to cut it but it's just what I would do. Although if you land it game 1 and get some use of it, your opponent might get bit confused and puts in lots of graveyard hate game2 and that's when you board your gy cards out :-)

Except for that Id say your list looks very stable! Perhaps 1-2 more discard MD could work

[unemployer]

My problem is that I cannot have the same hate for Ad Nauseam combo or Show and Tell... which makes my life difficult. Any ideas?

TW

Welcome to our world :) You might want to provide more hand disruption and probably play slaughter games. Other than that, I am open for other ideas

[vilnico]

Red elemental blast
Slaughter games
More discard
Extirpate // Surginal ( coupled with discard against combo + good versus dredge )
Gaddock? (I can add a land in the SB too if necessary)
Blood Moon? (can be surprising for certain decks)

My problem is that I cannot have the same hate for Ad Nauseam combo or Show and Tell... which makes my life difficult. Any ideas?

Welcome to our world :) You might want to provide more hand disruption and probably play slaughter games. Other than that, I am open for other ideas

Well Show and Tell is very sensitive to discard, but here REB is definitely your best option.
Ad Nauseam does not like heavy discard either, which should buy you enough time to GSZ a Gaddock on board. I would not necessarily sideboard a W land for that. You play GSZ, that should be fair enough. (Ok it makes you mulligan a hand with Gaddock though :/ ) I usually pack 4 Mindbreak Trap in addition to discard against Storm.

In my opinion Slaughter Game is too slow, but have not tested it.

@TW: are 4 Veteran and 4 DR Shaman too much ? I am building a BGw list with a 3-3 mix, but did not played it yet

@Arianrhod: Enjoy your MTG break !

[litenkatt]

Going to a legacy tournament next week. I assume there will be about 30ish people.

Will bring the rector version w/ moat. Still tweaking the list and I'm gonna try out Sylvan Library as an additional card engine

[sderenatore]

Hello guys,
I am new to the thread and I wanted to introduce you my rector list:

2 Phyrexian Tower
3 Bayou
4 Verdant Catacombs
3 Forest
2 Swamp
1 Savannah
1 Scrubland
3 Windswept Heath
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Plains

4 Veteran Explorer
4 Academy Rector
1 Fierce Empath
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Thragtusk
1 Starved Rusalka
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons

4 Cabal Therapy
2 Pernicious Deed
4 Green Sun's Zenith
3 Sensei's Divining Top
2 Eladamri's Call
1 Omniscience
2 Innocent Blood
2 Garruk Relentless
1 Vraska the Unseen
1 Moat
1 Faith's Fetters
3 Thoughtseize

SB: 1 (Garruk, the Veil-Cursed)--> not an actual sideboard card of course
SB: 1 Pernicious Deed
SB: 1 Perish
SB: 2 Abrupt Decay
SB: 1 Chains of Mephistopheles
SB: 4 Mindbreak Trap
SB: 1 Nether Void
SB: 1 Gaddock Teeg
SB: 2 Nihil Spellbomb
SB: 2 Extirpate

I have a few doubts about all the Omisciensce+Emmy story.
It actually turned in my favor games that where basically lost, bust sometimes i feel like its overkill. I am really undecided about this, also because without it that would be a totally different deck as long as i would play less discard and more board disruption.
I'd just like to hear your opinion about emmy or not emmy and what you would replace the whole package with. Also what do you think about Eladamri's Call? I often side it out but makes the whole deck smoother.
Thanks in advance, I am really curious about the opinion of more experienced players like you are guys! (also about the deck in general)

[TiMeWaLk]

@sderenatore

Having Emrakul, the Aeons Torn + Omniscience + Fierce Empath is just terrible for your opening hands and your future draws. I don't think it shines in any specific match up. I would not play such a combo. Sure it will give you wins from time to time since it is what a combo is for, but it will give you so many losses due to the amount of dead cards...

I guess the Eladamri's calls are Ok because you want to combo with Rector. However, it does not do anything on the board. These are just 2 manas spent for nothing but card quality. I would not run them because it makes the deck completely focused on the combo (which I would not play)

I am not sure about Dryad Arbor. When I was playing it, I never found it good. It was just destroying my manabase.

How is Vraska for you?

Sorry for sounding tough :)



@vilnico & unemployer

I have the same impression about Slaughter games... It looks good on paper, but as soon as I think a bit more at it I realize that:

- In the best case, I cast it on turn two with the help of Veteran + Tower. This has a very low probability to happen
- I will cast it on turn 3, which is likely to happen but implies Deathrite or Veteran + sack outlet. Turn 3 is already very late to do something against combo decks. It can be supported by some discard (can be cabal which is also a sack outlet) ... but it looks like a lot of conditions
- Turn 4 or later, that's shit.
- Removing 1 kind of card does not save us... against Ad Nauseam, they can still combo via direct Tendril, or find tendril via burning wish or use past in flammes... They have not only 1 way on winning the game.

Conclusion: I would not use the card. It is only very good against miracle. Hence, it is not versatile enough

- Red elemental blast sounds really good because it helps in other match ups. It is not only good against combo but also miracle for example. I will see if it fits my sideboard plans.

- More discard is a possibility, but I am afraid that I will spend my time making my opponent discard and we run both out of gaz... and at that game, combo is stronger to recover (oups I win...).

- Gaddock looks nice against Miracle + Ad Nauseam but it useless against Show & Tell. I requires me to splash W just for him in the SB. I am not very happy about it.

- Surgical // Extirpate. I don't think the strategy discard + extirpate is really good against combo, however these cards are also very useful against Dredge.

At the moment, I consider playing Red Elemental Blast, which is good in several match ups but probably helps a lot against Show & Tell. A very polyvalent SB card.

I will run as a complement Surgical // Extirpate which has a decent interaction with combo & helps against other decks. I think tormod & the likes are too dedicated.

Finaly, playing with 4 Veteran + 4 Deathrite is really no problem. Deathrite is just insane. Just have a look how fast your opponents are trying to remove them and you will understand. However, I could cut one of them for testing another card (not decided what yet). The only thing I am sure about Shaman is that I don't want to play only 1 of them. It is a GSZ target that you will not search since all the others are doing better: ooze for graveyard, Fink // Huntmaster for life...

Hope this help & that my english is still decent after such a big day,

TW