[Deck] Goblins

[jrw1985]

P.S.: And what do you mean by saying to "sandbag a card"?

Sandbag-
To deceive someone by pretending to be weak, or (in cards) to have a weak hand.

In Magic I usually use the term to describe a play where I have a card in hand that I'm going to sit on until I can get maximum surprise/value out of it.

[ScatmanX]

Fuck. It's so agonizing watching people play Goblins on scgo...

[jrw1985]

Fuck. It's so agonizing watching people play Goblins on scgo...

G3 was super unlucky for him though. He drew like 7 lands and 2 Vials, 4 non-goblin SB cards, blanked on a Ringleader, and still managed to play to a draw. I think he did pretty well, considering his draw.

Esperblade punted by not just clearing the board with Verdict. He really fucked up there. Seriously terrible on his part. He's facing a guy that blanked on a Ringleader, had 2 active Vials and isn't using either of them, and the only thing saving the goblins player was Gempalms and Skirk. Esper dude could have played Verdict after Ringleader blanked and won easy. Instead he just kept attacking into sacking chumpers and got drawn out. Derp.

[andrebonotto]

Sandbag-
To deceive someone by pretending to be weak, or (in cards) to have a weak hand.

In Magic I usually use the term to describe a play where I have a card in hand that I'm going to sit on until I can get maximum surprise/value out of it.

Oh, thanks.

I have read this term a lot, but didn't understand exactly what it means.

[ScatmanX]

G3 was super unlucky for him though. He drew like 7 lands and 2 Vials, 4 non-goblin SB cards, blanked on a Ringleader, and still managed to play to a draw. I think he did pretty well, considering his draw.

Esperblade punted by not just clearing the board with Verdict. He really fucked up there. Seriously terrible on his part. He's facing a guy that blanked on a Ringleader, had 2 active Vials and isn't using either of them, and the only thing saving the goblins player was Gempalms and Skirk. Esper dude could have played Verdict after Ringleader blanked and won easy. Instead he just kept attacking into sacking chumpers and got drawn out. Derp.

Man, I saw too many mistakes there (and saw only game 3):
1 - Sideboarding in Relic against Esper.
2 - Sideboarding in ReB against Esper.
3 - Not removing Stp with Relic when had the 1st chance.
4 - Saccing a Fetch to 'thin' the deck, after Ringleader put 4 bad cards on the bottom of his library.
5 - (this is how I'd play) He played Matron when got to 3 lands, searching for a Ringleader, when he didn't had the mana. My play would be casting the 2nd Vial and passing. That why, he'd have a easier time cheating guys on the long game. Also, his hand was Instigator, Gempalm, Matron, Vial, Reb( i think), so after he Vialed in Instigator and Vial reached 3 counters, he would have no use for it yet. The curve was perfect for Vial. Also, removing the Ringleader from the deck (by searching it with Matron) 'thins' the deck out of goblins. The % is really really slow, but he could have naturally drawn that Ringleader he searched have he not played Matron. Also, Matron did nothing on board for 2 turns, so her body was irrelevant. Another thing it that waiting 2 turns to play Matron (sandbagging it =p), would give you more information. I mean, by then, maybe searching out for Tuktuk would be better, and he couldn't anymore (that's why sandbagging is sometimes good).
The only argument I see against my play is the opponent casting a 2nd Explosives, but I'd be willing to risk that, specially after my opponent having already used one.
Edit: OH, when the goblin player successfully Gempalmed the Batterskull token, it got pretty clear that the esper guy did not had StP, so searching for Krenko would be a very good play there too, had only he sandbagged Matron.
Edit 2: Seeing G1 now. Didn't like his 1st attack there too. He sacrificed the Chieftain for no reason. My play would be to Gempalm Stoneforge with 2 Instigators into play. If he StP, he can't 'vial' an equipament. If he Vials Batter, you don't attack. There is still the chance you get Prospector for the Cycling, or a Wasteland, to prevent Jitte>Equip next turn (not that he would win the game, but still...)
Edit 3: Seing G2: 1- Would have dropped Krenko off Lackey. IF opponent draws StP, I'll have either an active Krenko, or at least another Lackey activation. 2 - Would have kept Mountain up, not Caverns. The rest was quite ok. Gempalm and Waste were weird though. I'd probably have played differently, but opponent made too many mistakes too. (on a second tought, would have probably played the same as him).


And I agree, Esper guy did some pretty bad plays also (removing ReB with clique? The goblins player would have had ZERO gas if he had taken Matron after that!), and the play you mentioned too.

[Sasan]

I saw the games,too and really asked myself if the goblin player did know how esper works: How can one sideboard Relic against Esper???????? ReB is also questionable as the only good target is Jace but if he has sided in only one ReB it is perhaps ok. I agree with everything Scatena said. I never have luck when I watch SCG Vids as the Goblins player is always bad :-)

[max_goblin]

I saw the games,too and really asked myself if the goblin player did know how esper works: How can one sideboard Relic against Esper???????? ReB is also questionable as the only good target is Jace but if he has sided in only one ReB it is perhaps ok. I agree with everything Scatena said. I never have luck when I watch SCG Vids as the Goblins player is always bad :-)

9-23 Winner Max Tietze, I know that the fact that he won is quite solid for good videos, but in fact I really liked the way he played.

http://www.starcitygames.com/magic/s...-Miracles.html I really like the way this guy played.

Don´t take me wrong, but usually star city is very strange to watch. Most of the time, I don´t know how bad players attempt to top 8.

[Eleven]

Most of the time, I don´t know how bad players attempt to top 8.

Totally agreed.

[ScatmanX]

9-23 Winner Max Tietze, I know that the fact that he won is quite solid for good videos, but in fact I really liked the way he played.

http://www.starcitygames.com/magic/s...-Miracles.html I really like the way this guy played.

Don´t take me wrong, but usually star city is very strange to watch. Most of the time, I don´t know how bad players attempt to top 8.

Yeah. Tietze and Jim Davis are probably the only 2 goblins players I really enjoyed watching on scg opens.

[fimo]

It hurts my eyes to see so many poor plays on camera at the last SCG open. But maybe being on camera kind of push you into errors if you are not used to it. I think scatmanX made a good sum up.

On a side note I would like to hear something about Grafdigger's Cage. I may be blind but I cannot see the reason to run it, in fact I have NEVER played with it. Why should it be better than other GY hate? Let's consider only the following GY hate:

Grafdigger's Cage
Tomodo s crypt,
relic of progenitus
faerie macabre
surgical extraction

Why would Grafdigger's Cage be better then any of the others?

Reanimator: here all you need is to buy yourself 1-2 turns you don t need an effect that lasts long time. I prefer the uncouterability of faerie macabre.
Dredge: is Grafdigger's Cage better than other hate here? they can still dredge into an ancient grudge and win from there. I feel like the other hate is better with the exception of relic.
life from the loam decks: Grafdigger's Cage is Useless. Relic and surgical shine.
RUG delver: Grafdigger's Cage is Useless. Relic shines.
Maverick: Grafdigger's Cage is not good enough. Relic is good.

Grafdigger's Cage is the only hate that does not seem to be really good in a specific MU. On the other hand it does not not seem to be that flexible either, relic is better in that. Grafdigger's Cage is counterable, narrow and requires mana. Why would you run it?

[Vandalize]

It hurts my eyes to see so many poor plays on camera at the last SCG open. But maybe being on camera kind of push you into errors if you are not used to it. I think scatmanX made a good sum up.

On a side note I would like to hear something about Grafdigger's Cage. I may be blind but I cannot see the reason to run it, in fact I have NEVER played with it. Why should it be better than other GY hate? Let's consider only the following GY hate:

Grafdigger's Cage
Tomodo s crypt,
relic of progenitus
faerie macabre
surgical extraction

Why would Grafdigger's Cage be better then any of the others?

Reanimator: here all you need is to buy yourself 1-2 turns you don t need an effect that lasts long time. I prefer the uncouterability of faerie macabre.
Dredge: is Grafdigger's Cage better than other hate here? they can still dredge into an ancient grudge and win from there. I feel like the other hate is better with the exception of relic.
life from the loam decks: Grafdigger's Cage is Useless. Relic and surgical shine.
RUG delver: Grafdigger's Cage is Useless. Relic shines.
Maverick: Grafdigger's Cage is not good enough. Relic is good.

Grafdigger's Cage is the only hate that does not seem to be really good in a specific MU. On the other hand it does not not seem to be that flexible either, relic is better in that. Grafdigger's Cage is counterable, narrow and requires mana. Why would you run it?

Dredge can't kill Grafdigger's Cage with a Flashbacked Ancient Grudge. You can't cast cards off your graveyard. They'd need a Nature's Claim or a hardcasted Anceint Grudge to make things work.

Still, Cage would be better in a metagame filled with Elves and Natural Order, which aren't really a part of the metagame. I'd stick with Tormod's Crypt, Relic of Progenitus or Leyline of the Void.

Faerie Macabre is only good against Reanimator. It sucks against Dredge and other graveyard decks.

[raindrainxi]

Just a quick question. How do we deal with Death and Taxes? Anarchy? Blood Moon? Sharpshooters? More removal? Tried the latter but was unsuccessful. Hope to hear from those who has experience on the match-up.

[Sasan]

My boarding plan vs Death&Taxes is:

Death&Taxes:
-3 Pile (on the play) or Lackey (on the draw) -1 Sting-1 Skirk+ 3 Kinesis+ 2 Grip

You need to get rid of their equipment and remove some of their annoying creatures. Play tight, race the opponent and use you removal wisely. Waste/Port Karakas. That's it. The matchup is 50-50. The better player wins.

[ScatmanX]

Waste/Port Karakas. That's it. The matchup is 50-50. The better player wins.

I'd not Waste the Karakas, unless he has Mangara into play.
They play 4 Karakas. That means that sometimes they draw more than 1, meaning that Wasting 1 is useless.( also because they have 4 Waste and 4 Ports always, so the extra mana from Wasteland might actually be good)
For that same reason, I'd consider boarding out Krenko too.
Dealing with their equipment is essential.
Try to sandbag (just using the word again =]) Sharpshooter until you're sure it will survive at least a turn, because it usually clear their board.

[movingtonewao]

have a warchief out so sharpshooter has haste.
that being said, D&T isn't a big deck right now :)

[liamb]

Hey guys. I want to know your opinion about the BUG decks matchup. By BUG decks I meant two archetypes that had been on the rise recently: BUG tempo/agro decks (a.k.a. Team America) and BUG midrange/control decks. Most of you will agree that those two appeared because of printing two good cards in RtR: Abrupt Decay and Deathrite Shaman. Especially for goblin players - printing of Abrupt Decay have had the biggest impact because it being removal spell it is also one of the few maindeck answers to Aether Vial.

So how to fight those decks?

Against tempo (sample: http://thecouncil.es/tcdecks/deck.ph...4&iddeck=70451).
As you can see it is somehow similar to RUG tempo decks. Most of their threats depends of the size of the graveyard(s). Following the comparison to RUG deck the main different will be before mentioned answer do Vial - Abrupt Decay but also lack of the burn spells that can be fired directly in the face of the opponent. In my opinion, our strategy to fight those decks should be as follow:
- resolved vial often will be not enough so we need to be more focused to keep the opening hands with as many goblins as possible, play aggressive but smart
- with our mana denial plan we have to keep them out of the one color and this color is green,
- we have to be prepared to play around stifles, especially when resolving matrons and ringleaders,
- postboard we should attack the graveyards (pacification of goyfs, gooses, stralkers) – so Rest in Peace is nice candidate to execute this plan (still – not being decay-proofed force us to play smart and bait Abrupt Decay with vial/lackey).

Control BUG deck lists varies a lot. There are 12+ creatures lists and creatureless ones. They often runs hand disruption – Thoughtseize, IoK, hymns, liliana and dredgebased softlocks like loam+waste. Being control decks means that they will run more lands and mass removal – mostly Pernicious Deed. Black control decks also often have access to Engineered Plague. There isn’t one strategy against those decks. Postboard, I think that we should focus to fight their win conditions if they are creatures (graveyard hate) or their hate cards (plague, deed).

Thoughts?

[catmint]

My thoughts from a BUG perspective:

BUG does not have a kickass 1cmc removal spell, so given the option I would always start with lackey and see if I can get a win right there. Stingscour is good since deathrite/Goyf will often have to serve as an early blocker against Lackey. I don't play with Plague, so I still feel my gobs opponents have usually inevitability, since my only real long game trump jace is not optimal against red-blasts and haste goblins. Don't know if this card is good in the meta, but what I fear most is Wort, Boggart Auntie. Survies my decays and disfigures and is unbeatable if it lives. Krenko is a similar beating though if no Plague is in play I guess, but I rather deal with some 1/1s (deed, pulse, EE) than recurring ringleaders.

[movingtonewao]

hi catmint thanks for the input. Its nice to have input from pilots of other decks once in awhile. I suppose your game against goblins is pretty strong? Even if we run krenko or wort it would be a 1 or 2 of. Leading with a lackey against bug seems like a better play than aether vial based on what you said. do you guys pack anything in the sb that would really hurt our day? (other than eplagues)

[ScatmanX]

Thanks for the input Catmint. Wort does sound awesome against Bug right now. Maybe Rb must be revisited.

[movingtonewao]

i doubt so scatman, we really need those grips and we really get a buff from those thalias and RIPs. unless BUG suddenly comes up everywhere then thats aidfferent story.