Hi guys! Long time lurker, first time poster.
I have been playing The Gate since June this year, and over time building up the parts. It's been pretty consistently good for me, with many 2nd and 3rd place finishes, and recently I came 1st in a 31 player tournament at my LGS (we get 30+ players for weekly Legacy these days, it is great!) I think my record is approximately 65 wins to 30 losses in terms of games played. Here is my current list:
19 Swamp
2 Wasteland
4 Vampire Nighthawk
4 Gatekeeper of Malakir
3 Dark Confidant
2 Geralf's Messenger
2 Deathrite Shaman
2 Abyssal Persecutor
4 Cabal Therapy
3 Duress
3 Hymn to Tourach
3 Innocent Blood
2 Darkblast
3 Bitterblossom
2 Liliana of the Veil
2 Umezawa's Jitte
SIDEBOARD
3 Dystopia
3 Relic of Progenitus
3 Spinning Darkness
2 Phyrexian Revoker
2 Powder Keg
2 Phyrexian Metamorph
I think my changes are going to be;
-2 Swamp
-2 Deathrite Shaman
-2 Geralf's Messenger
+2 Wasteland
+1 Dark Confidant
+3 Faerie Macabre (I don't really know about this, as I love Messengers and they are just so strong, I have won so many games off sacrificing one to a Cabal Therapy after attacking, but the 3 coloured mana makes me uneasy with 4 colourless sources that weren't there when I ran 4 messengers. Flying seems good though.)
I need to fix up the sideboard, too. Relic of Progenitus is useless, I'd much prefer Tormod's Crypt than anything. I don't like Leyline as it is too easily removed, and not hitting one in your opening hand is a bitch with Dark Confidant. I think the Faerie is perfect as it hits the situational stuff to fuck with Graveyard-based combo, which my meta is full of lately for some reason - a ton of 4 Horsemen, Breakfast, Dredge and Doomsday decks)
What do you guys think? I have some things in there that would seem a bit weird, but it runs so smoothly in this version I don't want to fiddle with it too much.
Nice list. I'm guessing the mainboard Darkblast is for your metagame?
You're playing some cards I've been considering sideboarding for a long time:
Spinning Darkness
Powder Keg
Phyrexian Metamorph
What matchups are they best against?
Also, I've tried Faerie Macabres mainboard. They do a ton of work in the right meta. Besides the obvious access to graveyard hate in game 1, you can remove Snapcaster targets, Lingering Souls, slow down Sword of L&S triggers...I've even used them to exile Hellspark Elementals. I think it depends on your meta. I've noticed they can give you a fighting chance against Lands in game 1 as well.
what's the verdict on deathrite shaman? is cutting innocent blood worth it?
Those cards are functionally different slots. You should not be cutting Innocent Blood at all, let alone for a creature that does little to nothing in a mono-black deck. Shaman is better in BUG and Rock variants because he fixes mana and cleans out graveyards, but we aren't running green here so it really isn't all that good here.Originally Posted by xdavisx
thanks, exactly what i wanted to hear/know. it's been awhile since i've played this deck. how's it match up against miracles?
are bitterblossom and discard enough?
Miracles can be annoying. If an opponent doesn't have a Top on the table, that gives you a chance to cripple their hand and just go to town. Aside from that Bitterblossom is a good card against them and Jitte creates good situations for you with your dudes.
Game one is a little tougher due to their lack of threats cards like Blood and Gatekeeper aren't really good against. However, if you have Hymns in the main or board games two and three in addition to something like Null Rod or Pithing Needle you can stall them enough and relegate their Tops as being useless - which is exactly what you want.
Overall not a great match up, but certainly winnable.
To consistently beat (or even compete with) Miracles, 3-4 Pithing Needle are absolutely mandatory in the sideboard.
Null Rod can work too, but Needle can stop Jace / Stoneforge Mystic / other planeswalkers in addition to just stopping Top.
Shaman is capable of contributing quite a bit to this deck, actually.
Basically speaking, from the perspective of this deck, it is a black Llanowar Elf (giving you mana acceleration) with the ability to finish games with a ping ability that evades opponent's protection-from-damage effects, Moat/Ensnaring Bridge effects, and even protection-from-targeting effects.
Its first ability allows the Gate pilot to have a maindeck answer to Life from the Loam / Crucible of Worlds type of effects. In addition, its second ability (exile target instant/sorcery) allows the Gate pilot to have another maindeck answer to Snapcaster Mage.
Right, but at one mana you're not really getting any value from the card in a deck that is largely predicated on gaining incremental (and virtual) card advantage - thus becoming more potent over the course of a game. In this deck it's really just a vanilla 1/2 for one mana.
It is highly unlikely the deck will have any lands in its graveyard throughout the course of a game. Its green mana ability is obviously moot. Additionally, if you're spending mana early in the game exiling instants and sorceries, you're really just durdling. You want to be more proactive with specialized and legitimate threats like Nighthawk and Persecutor. The deck doesn't run Dark Ritual for a reason, which is to say acceleration is unnecessary. For one mana I'd rather spend my turn playing a discard spell and setting up the following turn with a Dark Confidant or Bitterblossom. Shaman doesn't really do anything attractive here except exile cards from graveyards, and if we were to attempt to maximize its utility we might as well play it in a multicolored deck like BUG or The Rock where its acceleration and mana fixing is more important. It just doesn't fit the overall theme of the deck.
Snapcaster Mage is one of the least worrisome cards you can run into. You're running enough removal and discard that it will force an opponent to drop it before turn three when they can actually use its triggered ability in the face of an early discard spell. That or hiding it with Brainstorm, which is fine.
Faerie Macabre is really the ideal choice when it comes to exiling cards from graveyards, providing evasion with flying and subsequently becoming even more viable with Jitte. Loam and Crucible variants have typically been a non-issue against this archetype if the pilot runs Faerie Macabre, which is in all honesty a more versatile choice.
Null Rod and Needle are interchangeable depending on your meta, but I prefer a split of either because of Null Rod's application in some fringe match ups like Affinity and MUD.
That or I could be senile; I haven't played this deck in two years.
- If this deck's goal is to generate a steady stream of incremental card advantage, I might question how Nighthawk or Persecutor fit this philosophy. Obviously, you play those cards because of their abilities to further the core strategy of the deck: to attack the opponent, and additionally, in the case of the Nighthawk, to fuel the Blossoms and Confidants or to trade (via deathtouch) 1-for-1 with a larger creature. There is no card advantage to be gained with either the Nighthawk or the Persecutor, but they are nevertheless crucial cards in this deck: Nighthawk as an extremely versatile enabler and attacker, and Persecutor as simply the most efficient large-bodied win condition this deck employs. Similarly, the Shaman doesn't necessarily gain outright card advantage, but his various abilities can fuel the core objectives of this deck in an efficient and versatile manner, just like the Nighthawk. It pings for 2 life loss just as a Nighthawk attacks for 2 damage (which in many ways is better than attacking for 2 damage because it is unblockable life loss that cannot be stopped by protection-from effects or Moat/Ensnaring Bridge effects); it generates mana which enables you to accelerate the deployment of your mana curve; its ping ability has the side benefit of neutering graveyard recursion effects; and finally, its life-gain ability can become accessible when multiple Shamans are in play, and becomes as relevant as the Nighthawk's life-gain ability in the same exact ways.
- When playtesting Shaman in the mono-black shell, I've never found a lack of targets (for any of its abilities) in graveyards to ever be a problem. Maybe that's partly because I play Darkblast in the main deck, but it's probably also due to the absolute ubiquity of fetchlands in the format along with the four Wastelands that the deck itself plays.
- The green mana ability is not completely moot; if you can manage to stick two or more Shamans, you can use one's mana ability to power the life-gaining ability of the other. Not super-common, but definitely possible, and certainly relevant in a deck that often finds itself gasping for spare life to recoup the deficits generated by its Blossoms and Confidants.
- If you're spending mana early to exile sorceries or instants, you're either doing it a) in response to Snapcaster-like abilities that target graveyard cards, or b) at the end of turn to ping for 2 life just as you would attack with a 2/x creature, except that you're doing it with no regard for blockers. Either way, you are probably keeping Shaman untapped until your opponent's EOT step (or whenever he casts a Snapcaster-like spell) and using extra mana. If you *don't* have unused mana open early on, then you are probably using his mana-generation ability instead. But there are situations where this deck has free mana open early in the game (think land flood or holding back removal); it doesn't always have stuff to cast every single turn, although more often than not it does.
- I hear you about wanting to play discard on your first turn. That is usually the ideal line of play with this type of deck. However, I don't think that it's feasible or even desirable to play more than, say, 6-7 one mana discard spells in any non-combo deck, and then that leaves you with only a handful of options at that mana slot if you want to flex your mana curve further into the shallow end of the bell curve. Shaman is as good of a card as any to fill that 1cc slot, in my opinion. In addition, often times, targeted discard is just as effective on turn 2 as it is on turn 1 in Legacy. Many decks are unimaginative with their turn 1 play in this format: Noble Heirarch, Mother of Runes, AEther Vial, etc.
- I don't agree with a blanket statement such as "acceleration is unnecessary". Why wouldn't you like to play, say, a Hymn *and* an Inquisition on turn 2, or a Nighthawk on turn 2 instead of turn 3? Every deck can benefit from acceleration, and especially decks that can be classified as "aggro" decks, which this certainly is, even if it features quite a few control elements.
Have you played against any of the UW control/aggro-control decks that play tons of 1cc spells - especially removal spells such as StP - and then recur them incessantly with Snapcaster Mages? That avalanche of card advantage this generates for them can often bury this deck. When your opponent can recycle cheap targeted removal several times over the course of a game, your army of creature-based threats loses its potency in a hurry. You certainly can't depend on discard to flush out a Snapcaster - and a topdecked Snapcaster is as devastating a topdeck as anything in the game.Snapcaster Mage is one of the least worrisome cards you can run into. You're running enough removal and discard that it will force an opponent to drop it before turn three when they can actually use its triggered ability in the face of an early discard spell. That or hiding it with Brainstorm, which is fine.
I've never liked Faerie Macabre because it is one of those Charm-like cards that does two or more things decently, but does neither very well, and never does more than one of those things in the same game. You can either discard it from your hand to neuter some graveyard-bound card - which basically causes you to lose card advantage because you are losing a card from your hand to target something in a graveyard that your opponent has already played (and extracted utility from) - or you can play it as a 2/3 flier with no additional special abilities for three mana - a mediocre creature by anyone's standards.Faerie Macabre is really the ideal choice when it comes to exiling cards from graveyards, providing evasion with flying and subsequently becoming even more viable with Jitte. Loam and Crucible variants have typically been a non-issue against this archetype if the pilot runs Faerie Macabre, which is in all honesty a more versatile choice.
And of course, if your opponent doesn't play any truly relevant graveyard recursion, you are basically playing a three mana 2/3 flier and nothing more. And if your opponent *is* playing some kind of graveyard recursion that you suspect will emerge at some later point during the game, you might be forced to sandbag that Macabre in your hand for a few turns when, instead, you desperately need to be attacking your opponent to lower his life total before he stabilizes his board.
It's always mediocre. It's either a weak graveyard-hate effect, or it's a weak creature. Now, if it were a 2/3 flier that, say, had flash and could target a card in the graveyard, then it would obviously be amazing. But it's not. It has no further utility beyond whatever singular mode you have chosen in that particular game: a weak graveyard-hate effect or an weak (over-costed) creature. The reason that Faerie Macabre is a kind of a bad creature is the same reason that something like Dromar's Charm is an enticing, but ultimately bad, tool for UWB control decks.
Compare that to something like Deathrite Shaman. This particular creature's graveyard-hosing ability can be played in the same game that Shaman provided you with early mana acceleration and later delivered the victory by forcing the opponent to lose, say, 6 life over the course of three turns at the end of the game after your other creatures were killed in the battlefield or fell to spot removal.
Now *that's* versatility. You're doing multiple things with one creature in the same game: disrupting your opponent's graveyard recursion, accelerating an early Nighthawk/Persecutor/Jitte, and finishing off the game with unblockable, unprotectable life loss.
Null Rod is definitely better against Affinity and MUD. But I feel that Jaces and Stoneforge Mystics are more prevalant right now than Frogmites or Metalworkers in any given Legacy metagame, so I'd probably choose the card that gave me more options vs. those particular bugaboos.Null Rod and Needle are interchangeable depending on your meta, but I prefer a split of either because of Null Rod's application in some fringe match ups like Affinity and MUD.
That or I could be senile; I haven't played this deck in two years.
Powder Keg is basically to pop for zero against Cheerios, MUD, Affinity, and Tezzerator. Metamorph was a placeholder that's going to be taken out, probably for Big Game Hunter (it kills Emrakul, right?) and as much as I like Spinning Darkness (kills Delvers, Factories, Goblin Guides, Confidants, Mutavaults...) It's hard running it with Dark Confidant and not being terrified to flip it for six.
I am not sold on the Faerie mainboard, but right now I'm not sold on the Darkblasts anymore either.
Actually Emrakul has protection from colored spells. For the sneak and show matchup, I'm currently testing Fleshbag Marauder.
this is the list i played last, which was sometime ago. is it outdated? miracles, omnitell and these new BUG variants weren't really a thing in the metagame at the time. i'm considering going to denver for the GP and this is one of the decks i'm considering.
4 Dark Confidant
4 Vampire Nighthawk
3 Gatekeeper of Malakir
1 Faerie Macabre
2 Abyssal Persecutor
4 Innocent Blood
3 Bitterblossom
3 Umezawa's Jitte
2 Liliana of the Veil
3 Cabal Therapy
3 Hymn to Tourach
3 Thoughtseize
1 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Bojuka Bog
4 Wasteland
4 Bloodstained Mire
2 Verdant Catacombs
11 Swamp
Sideboard
1 Vampire Hexmage
2 Perish
2 Massacre
2 Tormod's Crypt
1 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Extirpate
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Duress
2 Dread of Night
1 Engineered Plague
It is true, that Emrakul is protected from colored spells.
Which is why Big Game Hunter indeed kills him.
i was watching cedric's stream today and in his last match of the night he came across the gate, playing deathrite shaman.
http://www.twitch.tv/ceddyp/b/345596871
starts around 3:52:00
Derp. Of course. Forgot that the Hunter's triggered ability isn't a 'colored spell'. Definitely gonna try that in the board now.
I've always loved mono-black decks, so I finally decided to give the Gate a spin. I took this list to my local:
4 Dark Confidant
4 Gatekeeper of Malakir
4 Vampire Nighthawk
4 Phyrexian Obliterator
4 Innocent Blood
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Thoughtseize
3 Go for the Throat
4 Hymn to Tourach
2 Umezawa's Jitte
2 Liliana of the Veil
3 Wasteland
19 Swamp
Sideboard
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Extirpate
3 Pithing Needle
2 Perish
2 Virtue's Ruin
I beat Affinity (2-1) and BUG/Team America (2-1), then drew into a split top four. I played out the would-be third round though (against Junk) and won 2-1. The single loss in each match generally had to do with mana screw/flood or mulliganning a bunch due to those same issues. Overall the deck performed very well, although I need to tweak the sideboard. Therapy was largely unnecessary as I already run a ton of discard. I wanted some alternate removal available in the board against Affinity (Go for the Throat is REALLY bad in that matchup...) but I'd prefer to avoid narrow hate like Null Rod. Doom Blade, Engineered Plague, or perhaps Ratchet Bomb would be options with more widespread applications. Phyrexian Obliterator was absolutely insane, and I was only screwed off casting it by Wasteland in one test game which I was going to lose regardless. It raced Knights of the Reliquary, trampled over hordes of Lingering Souls tokens, and rapidly put away games. Liliana of the Veil was the other MVP (she single-handedly dominated a game against BUG), and I think I want to add a third copy of her. I'm also questioning the necessity of three Wastelands, and may drop down to two. Thoughts?
Lord of the Chalice
Stompy Discord: https://discord.gg/6cesvkz
Not sure why Deathrite Shaman has not made it into the deck. Innocent Blood is good but Shaman is a strong card in that it usually speeds up a deck with no Dark Rituals in it.
Also, Big Game Hunter is obviously terrible vs decks running Emrakul. Some decks which run Cloudpost actually hard cast the card making your Hunter pretty useless.
Slightly less janky might be Keeper of the Dead or Royal Assassin or Stronghold Assassin. Keeper might be better in that if you run Deathrite Shaman or graveyard manipulation but it assumes you will live long enough to put two creatures in the graveyard. Unlike, Assassin which will still cause you to lose 6 permanents. But there are lots of cards like this such as Stronghold Assassin and the like.
Of the three, I think Stronghold Assassin may be the strongest choice. I put 2 in my board. And if you run Bitterblossom in your version, makes him all that more useful.
Last edited by necrowil; 12-08-2012 at 11:37 PM.
I would recommend Executioner's Capsule or Brittle Effigy if you want a removal spell that can deal with Emrakul. Heck, Seal of Doom would work.
Lord of the Chalice
Stompy Discord: https://discord.gg/6cesvkz
How about Fleshbag marauder or Angel of Despair for fighting Show and Tell?
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