[Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm

[RaNDoMxGeSTuReS]

Yeah, so I guess Misdirection is a thing now from Miracles. Boo.

[phazonmutant]

Yeah, so I guess Misdirection is a thing now from Miracles. Boo.

More reason to play Silence over Chant, but otherwise so what? Duress is opponent, we only bring in 1-2 Therapy.

I was testing against BUG Delver, that mu seems very tough. Won like 2/10 pre and post. I kept a few 3 landers with a bunch of cantrips, should I aggressively mulligan those for faster hands? In general, do you mulligan cantrip-heavy hands to find faster ones? I know in ANT, it was my experience that lots of cantrips were good, but that deck plays very differently.

Next question: most decks have answers to goblins. Thresh has 0-2 Rough // Tumble, BUG has 0, 3, or 4 Engineered Plague. In your experience , do people bring those in? When I've been testing against my roommate, we talk about what to bring in and so far have agreed that there's far worse cards to bring out. Obviously they're beatable (don't have it, too fast, duress exists), but have you seen those cards in tournaments?

[RaNDoMxGeSTuReS]

More reason to play Silence over Chant, but otherwise so what? Duress is opponent, we only bring in 1-2 Therapy.

I was testing against BUG Delver, that mu seems very tough. Won like 2/10 pre and post. I kept a few 3 landers with a bunch of cantrips, should I aggressively mulligan those for faster hands? In general, do you mulligan cantrip-heavy hands to find faster ones? I know in ANT, it was my experience that lots of cantrips were good, but that deck plays very differently.

Targeting therapy doesn't actually do anything. I hear misdirecting an Abrupt Decay is pretty good.

I'm haven't dropped a match to BUG Delver. I mulligan most if not every cantrip heavy hand. This deck isn't ANT. You don't durdle until you cast PiF. You win now.

[Bahamuth]

I'm pretty sure you already know what I'm running Pelikanudo. I run mainboard EtW and no ToA, 13 land and 3 Wish.

[Pelikanudo]

I'm pretty sure you already know what I'm running Pelikanudo. I run mainboard EtW and no ToA, 13 land and 3 Wish.

Absolutly,

And my proposal was to not to play Empty and +1 Burning. I would be able to play that list.

I know .NET platform (I wil need to make an .EXE file and ritght now I have no rosurces for this) but I'm not familiarized with Pithon, so I'd like you to help me to find the odds of winning at 4 lifes with that configuration.

Parameters:

Need to draw B.Wish OR I.Tutor
For B.Wish You need 6 Mana
For I.T. you need 8 Mana, 1 of them Red and you also Need to draw at least 1 LED (I assume I'll need to draw lot of cards so that the need of drawing LED)
I think we'll need to consider the 4 cost substituited for a 0 Cost.
We play 4 I.T and 4 B.W
We stop revealing at 4 lifes (im not sure if needed)
We play A.N with no Mana Floating and 1 I.T. in GY and 1 D.R in GY and 1 LED in GY and 2 lands in play,
We already played a land.

I don't think there are more parameters.

Please let me know.

EDIT: Merry chirstmast to everybody

[Bahamuth]

Absolutly,

And my proposal was to not to play Empty and +1 Burning. I would be able to play that list.

I know .NET platform (I wil need to make an .EXE file and ritght now I have no rosurces for this) but I'm not familiarized with Pithon, so I'd like you to help me to find the odds of winning at 4 lifes with that configuration.

Parameters:

Need to draw B.Wish OR I.Tutor
For B.Wish You need 6 Mana
For I.T. you need 8 Mana, 1 of them Red and you also Need to draw at least 1 LED (I assume I'll need to draw lot of cards so that the need of drawing LED)
I think we'll need to consider the 4 cost substituited for a 0 Cost.
We play 4 I.T and 4 B.W
We stop revealing at 4 lifes (im not sure if needed)
We play A.N with no Mana Floating and 1 I.T. in GY and 1 D.R in GY and 2 lands in play,
We already played a land.

I don't think there are more parameters.

Please let me know.

EDIT: Merry chirstmast to everybody

This will take me way too much time, and it will still be a very poor approximation. Furthermore, you will get some numbers out, and, as I've been arguing, they will not help you. To me, it makes no sense to play a Wish over an EtW, since drawing the EtW is almost always better, and it gives you the possibility of doing IT->EtW.

[Megadeus]

More reason to play Silence over Chant, but otherwise so what? Duress is opponent, we only bring in 1-2 Therapy.

I was testing against BUG Delver, that mu seems very tough. Won like 2/10 pre and post. I kept a few 3 landers with a bunch of cantrips, should I aggressively mulligan those for faster hands? In general, do you mulligan cantrip-heavy hands to find faster ones? I know in ANT, it was my experience that lots of cantrips were good, but that deck plays very differently.

Next question: most decks have answers to goblins. Thresh has 0-2 Rough // Tumble, BUG has 0, 3, or 4 Engineered Plague. In your experience , do people bring those in? When I've been testing against my roommate, we talk about what to bring in and so far have agreed that there's far worse cards to bring out. Obviously they're beatable (don't have it, too fast, duress exists), but have you seen those cards in tournaments?

BUG has been a very tough MU for me too. I only was able to win if I was able to go off on Turns 1-2. If it went past that it turned his wastelands on and Hymn to Tourach beat in my face. The issue was I basically really wanted a Probe in my opener to make sure the coast was clear otherwise I was trying to go off with no idea if he had it or not.


I think the issue with miracles running misdirection vs us is that if they land an early CB against us and we abrupt decay it, misdirection more than likely doesnt do too much because there is a decent chance that it is the only legal target on board for Decay. Late game we may be SOL, but late game was going to be tough either way for us.

[RaNDoMxGeSTuReS]

...misdirection more than likely doesnt do too much because there is a decent chance that it is the only legal target on board for Decay.

Rest in Peace. Sensei's Divining Top.

[Megadeus]

Rest in Peace. Sensei's Divining Top.

Ill give you Top, but RIP? Is that even that great against us? A lot of the time we dont need to use PiF/IGG we can just go off. I guess it does shut down a small piece of our engine. Alot of the time they are trying to slam CB down as early as possible though to avoid our discard. If they dont have a top down on t1 that leaves CB exposed for a turn at least.

[RaNDoMxGeSTuReS]

Ill give you Top, but RIP? Is that even that great against us? A lot of the time we dont need to use PiF/IGG we can just go off. I guess it does shut down a small piece of our engine. Alot of the time they are trying to slam CB down as early as possible though to avoid our discard. If they dont have a top down on t1 that leaves CB exposed for a turn at least.

It's their win condition. They're probably not boarding it out. Try casting Rite of Flame with RIP out. It's a bitch.

[Megadeus]

How many miracle decks are still on RIP Helm combo? The ones around here abandoned it I think.

[RaNDoMxGeSTuReS]

All of them.

[Bryant Cook]

How To Count To Ten: GP Denver Edition by Ari Lax (Ari Lax)

I don't agree necessarily agree with his list, but it was a decent read and it's about TES!

[Bryant Cook]

(I apologize for the double post)

After reading Ari's article and having a day to digest, it's made me realize it's time to make a change. Even if I don't agree with some of the changes he's made to the list, he hit the nail on the head with one of his adjustments.

Maverick is dying. Anyone who was a die-hard is more than likely playing Junk at the moment or continuing to play a currently bad deck. Reanimator has been hated out by Deathrite Shaman and Sneak Show's numbers are lower than they once were. Why are we still playing Karakas?

Mother of Runes isn't a thing anymore, sure Karakas still answers Gaddock Teeg and Thalia but so does Abrupt Decay. I know the card I'm about to mention isn't revolutionary or even new, but I think in the current metagame it's the appropriate card for the sideboard over Karakas and that's Chain of Vapor. Normally I would be pushing Echoing Truth here, however, we have Abrupt Decay nowadays to take care of Chalice decks. This slot is for hate bears initially so it only makes since to play the most versatile card that's effective against them and that's Chain. The mana cost of two against Thalia is reasonable while having the option of bouncing Ethersworn Canonist or even Leyline of Sanctity.

What does this mean for Hull Breach? Well, it's probably going to go back to being Shattering Spree for the time being or until someone/something changes my mind.

I highly recommend making this change as people are aware of Storm, especially those of you attending GP: Denver. The hate for storm is going to be diverse now that it's on peoples radar. No combo player wants that awkward situation where Solitary Confinement, Ethersworn, Lodestone Golem, or Leyline of Sanctity is stopping them from winning the game.

My current sideboard is below (Entire list on the opening post).


3 Cabal Therapy
3 Abrupt Decay
2 Chain of Vapor
1 Shattering Spree
1 Grapeshot
1 Empty the Warrens
1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Ill-Gotten Gains
1 Past in Flames
1 Diminishing Returns

[phazonmutant]

[...] I highly recommend making this change as people are aware of Storm, especially those of you attending GP: Denver. The hate for storm is going to be diverse now that it's on peoples radar. No combo player wants that awkward situation where Solitary Confinement, Ethersworn, Lodestone Golem, or Leyline of Sanctity is stopping them from winning the game.

I asked the thread in a previous post how often they experience people bringing in hate for goblins and didn't really get a solid answer. Empty still seems great g1, but b/g/x usually have some combination of EPlague, Deed, or Pulse in the board, Thresh has Rough // Tumble, UW has Terminus and EE, so I've wanted to be able to board in a Tendrils a few times and still be able to wish for it.

Is it time to make room for a second tendrils in the 75? Not sure if that means replacing the Empty like Ari and Koby or cutting an AD or an engine for the Tendrils.

[Koby]

I want to reiterate that my performance with the deck was a colossal fluke. I faced three blue decks on the day:

BUG-still (no clock)
Bant (2 FoW, 1 Spell Pierce maindeck, 3 more counters SB)
Sneak Show (got punished and lost)

Having access to both Storm spells is likely important, and also against Extirpate effects.

FWIW, I wouldn't run either Storm deck without Karakas. There are still hold-overs for Cheaters of Legendary Fatties that love to play them. Griselbrand is still a problem. Silence helps, but having another way to stop/slow them down is important too.

@Bryant, I agree with adding Chains, but not taking out all the Karakas. Remember that some Goblin decks still pack Thalia to answer Combo/RUG.

[RaNDoMxGeSTuReS]

I asked the thread in a previous post how often they experience people bringing in hate for goblins and didn't really get a solid answer. Empty still seems great g1, but b/g/x usually have some combination of EPlague, Deed, or Pulse in the board, Thresh has Rough // Tumble, UW has Terminus and EE, so I've wanted to be able to board in a Tendrils a few times and still be able to wish for it.

Is it time to make room for a second tendrils in the 75? Not sure if that means replacing the Empty like Ari and Koby or cutting an AD or an engine for the Tendrils.

Empty is generally enough against BG/x decks game one. If you suspect EE, pulse, deed, etc., board it out for Tendrils every game two.

I thought about having Empty and Tendrils in the deck again, but it's just not necessary.

I want to reiterate that my performance with the deck was a colossal fluke.

This is true... 5-0 against non-blue decks. Rough life.

[Bryant Cook]

I asked the thread in a previous post how often they experience people bringing in hate for goblins and didn't really get a solid answer. Empty still seems great g1, but b/g/x usually have some combination of EPlague, Deed, or Pulse in the board, Thresh has Rough // Tumble, UW has Terminus and EE, so I've wanted to be able to board in a Tendrils a few times and still be able to wish for it.

Is it time to make room for a second tendrils in the 75? Not sure if that means replacing the Empty like Ari and Koby or cutting an AD or an engine for the Tendrils.

I want to reiterate that my performance with the deck was a colossal fluke. I faced three blue decks on the day:

BUG-still (no clock)
Bant (2 FoW, 1 Spell Pierce maindeck, 3 more counters SB)
Sneak Show (got punished and lost)

Having access to both Storm spells is likely important, and also against Extirpate effects.

FWIW, I wouldn't run either Storm deck without Karakas. There are still hold-overs for Cheaters of Legendary Fatties that love to play them. Griselbrand is still a problem. Silence helps, but having another way to stop/slow them down is important too.

@Bryant, I agree with adding Chains, but not taking out all the Karakas. Remember that some Goblin decks still pack Thalia to answer Combo/RUG.

For Goblins you sideboard like this:

-4 Silence, -3 Duress
+3 Cabal Therapy, +2 Abrupt Decay, +2 Chain of Vapor

This covers both Mind Break Trap and Thalia.

@Koby - Do you normally sideboard in Karakas against Goblins? I never did unless I knew that they already had it. I would be boarding Chain in already, being a better catch-all answer to begin with. Which would allow for less potential blow-outs.

Also, Karakas is just underwhelming against Show and Tell decks. It doesn't work well against Omniscience or Sneak Attack. It's great against Show and Tell IF they drop Emrakul, that's it. If they drop Grisel they still get to Yawgmoth's Bargain which will ultimately lead to our eventual loss.

@ phazonmuant - I'm not concerned with a second Tendrils, the main deck Warrens has been phenomenal. I never want a second copy of Tendrils ever, if you're facing a deck where Warrens isn't optimal and they have Surgical/Extripate effects, side in Tendrils or even Grapeshot. Siding in Grapeshot against decks with Surgical is fine since it's less damage off of Ad Nauseam and Tendrils is generally only cast after Ad Nauseam anyway. It requires slightly more work but doesn't take up a precious sideboard slot with a worthless card.

These Warrens answers that you're suggesting aren't even common outside of Terminus. Rough/Tumble is usually a single copy in a sideboard, possibly two. The odds are in your favor. As for the BUG answers, if they want to sideboard in Engineered Plagues against combo then we just won the lottery. Deed doesn't really work well with Deathrite Shamans and hasn't been seeing a whole lot of play because of it. As for Pulse it suffers the same problem that Rough/Tumble does against us and that is that there are too few copies for us to make it worth consideration.

[Koby]

For Goblins you sideboard like this:

-4 Silence, -3 Duress
+3 Cabal Therapy, +2 Abrupt Decay, +2 Chain of Vapor

This covers both Mind Break Trap and Thalia.

@Koby - Do you normally sideboard in Karakas against Goblins? I never did unless I knew that they already had it. I would be boarding Chain in already, being a better catch-all answer to begin with. Which would allow for less potential blow-outs.

Also, Karakas is just underwhelming against Show and Tell decks. It doesn't work well against Omniscience or Sneak Attack. It's great against Show and Tell IF they drop Emrakul, that's it. If they drop Grisel they still get to Yawgmoth's Bargain which will ultimately lead to our eventual loss.

If I see Plateau, then I'm definitely sure that they are playing Thalia, and board appropriately. We need the extra mana vs their denial regardless.

Vs Sneak Attack, Karakas still stops Griselbrand from attacking. It's a long-shot, but better than letting it connect. Imagine in my camera match vs Richard Centanni, if one of my Duress was instead a Cabal Therapy -> Emrakul. He would have been locked out from combat. Stopping the S&T -> fattie plan still beats about a third of their plays. I think Ari Lax has understated how much Sneak Show will be present. I think it's going to be higher than he expects it.

[Bryant Cook]

If I see Plateau, then I'm definitely sure that they are playing Thalia, and board appropriately. We need the extra mana vs their denial regardless.

Vs Sneak Attack, Karakas still stops Griselbrand from attacking. It's a long-shot, but better than letting it connect. Imagine in my camera match vs Richard Centanni, if one of my Duress was instead a Cabal Therapy -> Emrakul. He would have been locked out from combat. Stopping the S&T -> fattie plan still beats about a third of their plays. I think Ari Lax has understated how much Sneak Show will be present. I think it's going to be higher than he expects it.

Sure, if you see Plateau. Most of the time you won't if that player has the slightest bit of intelligence. One could argue than Chaining their Aether Vial would be more relevant to slow them down.

How exactly does Karakas stop Sneak Attack attacks? All they need is another red source. Karakas is incredibly weak against them, I stand by it!

EDIT: Ah, you wait for them to declare then bounce. Got it. Either way, it's still a crappy play. Drawing fourteen cards will likely find them an Emrakul and a red source.