[DTB] Team America (Aggro/Tempo Thread)

[wcm8]

Pretty sure I was the ANT guy you played on Christmas day with the "god hands." :) We played two rounds, each of us winning one like you stated.

One of my most formidable opponents then! Usually storm is such a pushover, Hymn hymn I win sort of battles.

[Spigore]

Hi all,

A few pages back, the question to stifle or not to stifle was asked.

How do you guys think of the little instant in the current 60?
I don't see anyone running this card anymore, though this is your typical tempo tool.
I can see reasons to run Stifle, but cutting 3 Deathrite Shaman and the fifth removal (Snuff Out / Dismember) just seems wrong.

As RUG Delver is a true tempo deck, I see BUG Delver as a deck which is not that much in a hurry.
Then again, Stifle does net you fetchlands, which is ofcourse very neat. It makes your Daze stronger and combined with Wasteland and Hymn it can totally screw the opponent.

Imho, running 3 Deathrite Shaman and 1 Snuff Out (over 4 Stifle) is the way to go.

(Talking about the most common list which everybody is using atm http://www.thecouncil.es/tcdecks/dec...9&iddeck=71471)

[wcm8]

The current approach to playing Team America is that it taps out on its own turns, and only utilizes 'free' counterspells on its opponent's turn.

Obviously as the game progresses, you'll be doing things like EOT Brainstorm, activating Shaman, or throwing Abrupt Decays around. But generally speaking, in the early game as you are developing your board, Stifle does not fit into the plan. You don't want to have to choose between dropping a turn one threat and holding mana up for Stifle. Its use as Wasteland protection is also less needed now that Shaman is in the mix.

Stifle is one of those high-risk, high-reward cards that is now mostly overshadowed by alternative options in BUG. Even RUG at times will drop the card for additional counter spells. If you were to play it, I would definitely consider playing Nimble Mongoose and dropping some of the midrange options from the build and focus on early-game tempo.

[the ploeg]

i have been experimenting but i was thinking of dropping 1 tomb stalker and the dismember for 2 JTMS using the list from scg. Any thoughts or is main board jace not what i want.

[Patrunkenphat7]

This deck is terrible against Swords to Plowshares + Snapcaster, so yes, I think dropping a Stalker for Jace seems like a good idea to make that matchup better. This deck is strong but lacks the tempo card that gave UWx decks nightmares: the goose. Tombstalker is such a silly card in a format with UWx decks, but it is awesome against RUG Tempo. I used to play it, but it's not a card I will ever play against vs a format where one of the most-played decks plays Swords to Plowshares, Snapcasters, and Jaces. Some people are starting to grumble about Goyf being unimpressive, but Tombstalker has the same issues as Goyf x 10. If you are running Deathrite Shaman in a BUG deck (which you should...), you should also be doing one of the most broken "fair deck" plays in Legacy: playing a turn 3 Jace.

[phazonmutant]

One of my most formidable opponents then! Usually storm is such a pushover, Hymn hymn I win sort of battles.

Thems fightin' words! I've been testing the TES v. BUG Delver matchup a ton for Denver and I'm like 9-3 in games pre and post. TES topdecks better than BUG in the discard battle (8 tutors, Ad Naus are "oops, I win"), you only play like 6 pieces of countermagic (Daze is a joke), and TES can just win before Hymn comes down.

So are your results mostly against ANT and/or High Tide? I could see Hymn being much better against them.

[Plague Sliver]

4x Sinkholes in the board...

DELICIOUS!

[wcm8]

Congrats Dan on the top 8 GP Denver finish! I like the 'secret' sideboard tech of 4 Sinkhole.

I also played the deck yesterday at the SCG Open, but a string of bad matchups and bad luck left me with a miserable 2-4 finish.
1-2 vs. Manaless Dredge
1-2 vs. the Mirror (literally only about 7 cards difference between our 75, mostly in the sideboard. Got out-Goyf'ed in game 3.)
2-0 vs. Goblins
2-1 vs. Show and Tell
1-2 vs. GBW Midrange (Lingering Souls, Dark Confidant, Liliana, Stoneforge Mystic)
1-2 vs. Belcher (in the games I lost, I had the wrong answer to the combo -- Force of Will vs. Empty the Warrens, and Engineered Explosives vs. Charbelcher. Mulling to 5 in game 3 didn't help either. Fuck this deck's existence. I prefer games that aren't based around shuffling. Playing against this deck has never been fun for me, even in the games I win. I probably would have not dropped and played a few more rounds if the loss were to just about any other deck. /rant)

Going forward, I'm wary to even play Team America. It seems like the format is shifting towards midrange decks, where 1-for-1'ing with Abrupt Decay is mediocre at best. Once combo comes back into full force to make Bloodbraid Elf look silly, we can go back to playing Daze and Delver's. Until then, I'd probably lay low on tempo.

[GtF]

Yeah, congrats Dan. I request a tournament report or at least a format as you see it overview. I am especially curious about the sinkholes in the board.

[nitewolf9]

I'll try to write a report up when I get a chance. I will say this deck is very well positioned right now, more so than the "grindyer" card advantage lists as tempo is so important in many matchups. Submerge is probably going back into my sideboard, even though I definitely think Jund is beatable with this deck. It is probably positive with the right board as brainstorm and ponder are ridiculous.

[Adryan]

Because of the rising popularity of Jund, i'm thinking of adding Submerges to the Sideboard. I want to add 2-4 but i have no idea what to cut:

Team America

Creatures (14)

4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Tarmogoyf
2 Tombstalker
Lands (20)

2 Bayou
4 Misty Rainforest
1 Polluted Delta
1 Tropical Island
4 Underground Sea
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Wasteland
Spells (26)

1 Sylvan Library
4 Abrupt Decay
4 Brainstorm
4 Daze
4 Force of Will
1 Snuff Out
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Ponder

Sideboard

1 Extractions
1 Krosans grip
1 Disfigure
2 Diabolic Edict
2 Spell Pierce
2 Vendilion Clique
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 maelstrom Pulse
3 thoughtseize

Maybe pulse and the Disfigure... Any ideas?

[lordofthepit]

Hey Dan, congratulations on your top 8.

Looking forward to your report. Do you think you can include some stuff about why you included sideboard Sinkholes, where you boarded them in, and how well they performed? Thanks!

[Richard Cheese]

Can we stop hating on Tombstalker now?

[Adryan]

Can we stop hating on Tombstalker now?

I love Tombstalker <3 i'm really sad that i'm playing only 2 tombstalkers in my list. Because of the fourth Deathrite Shaman. The Shaman is just too good. Today i playtested against Combo Elves. And Deathrite Shaman enabled turn 2 Thougtseize followed by a Hymn.

I have been thinking about putting 1 Tombstalker into the sideboard?

1 Tombstalker
1 Krosans grip
1 Disfigure
2 Diabolic Edict
2 Spell Pierce
2 Vendilion Clique
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 maelstrom Pulse
3 thoughtseize

Any ideas?

[Maximus]

I have been thinking about putting 1 Tombstalker into the sideboard?

Any ideas?

Usually with this deck, your mana, threat base, and draw are static. Instead, you board to make your disruption better. It's perfectly acceptable to put 15 disruption/answer spells in your sideboard, usually with some mix of removal, graveyard hate, or other utility like Loam or Jitte. If you want to increase your threat base, something like Scavenging Ooze might be alright. I don't think the deck needs it right now though, and you could probably drop the Cliques too for the same reason.

[karaxu]

1-2 vs. Belcher (in the games I lost, I had the wrong answer to the combo -- Force of Will vs. Empty the Warrens

You could have avoided having the wrong answer, by countering the spell that would give them their fourth mana (or 3rd mana if you are suspecting a spirit guide, but this is less likely).

At that point it doesn't matter if they have empty the warrens as you have delayed them for at least 2 or 3 turns that should be enough for you to be ahead.

[bruizar]

I love Tombstalker <3 i'm really sad that i'm playing only 2 tombstalkers in my list. Because of the fourth Deathrite Shaman. The Shaman is just too good. Today i playtested against Combo Elves. And Deathrite Shaman enabled turn 2 Thougtseize followed by a hymn

Wouldnt you rather open with hymn and then thoughtseize if you know you are up against elves? If you randomly hit the card u wanted to thoughtseize, you get to thoughtseize their second best card as well.

I'd open with seize if i knew i was playing against blue though.

[wcm8]

You could have avoided having the wrong answer, by countering the spell that would give them their fourth mana (or 3rd mana if you are suspecting a spirit guide, but this is less likely).

At that point it doesn't matter if they have empty the warrens as you have delayed them for at least 2 or 3 turns that should be enough for you to be ahead.

I'll admit to not having tested against this matchup a ton, but if I recall correctly nothing would have mattered. Most of the mana was generated by Lotus Petals, Spirit Guides, and multiple ritual effects, meaning he was hitting 4 mana regardless of what I countered. I also think he had a Pyroblast in game 3 besides.

[JMLL]

Hey Dan, congratulations on your top 8.

Looking forward to your report. Do you think you can include some stuff about why you included sideboard Sinkholes, where you boarded them in, and how well they performed? Thanks!

Grats for your success, Dan.

Sum me in that petition for this explanation. I REALLY want to play those Beta sinkholes but I son't know why I should use them (besides the fact that they look cool :D)

[wcm8]

I'd love to hear Dan's thoughts on the matter, but Sinkhole's inclusion seems so obvious. Signorigni, with a Why-Didn't-I-Think-of-It-Before? look, the look that everyone's dad puts on when he's trying to pick out shoes and clothes for their kid, even though they have thought of this before, from the beginning, in fact, they just wanted to draw out the afternoon with needless driving around and tryings-on because they don't know what else to do with their kids, well, Signorigni put on that kind of a look and added 4 Sinkhole to his sideboard.

He stood in front of the Grand Prix like some freaking Amadeus. He no doubt imagined his opponents as his orchestra. And Signorigni was flabbergasted at how good of a choice he made. He whispered like a thespian in a particularly juicy role.

'Sinkhole, targeting your Island.'