[Deck] The Rock

[Mr. Safety]

No worries...just wanted to be clear that I knew it wasn't just a small-time event, it just seemed that way because of the top 8 mix.

[psilance]

no gonna lie, part of me wants to jam that list for GP Denver this weekend.

[sdematt]

So I ran this list last night:

4 Verdant Catacombs
3 Marsh Flats
1 Windswept Heath
3 Bayou
2 Scrubland
1 Savannah
2 Forest
1 Plains
1 Swamp
3 Wasteland
1 Maze of Ith
1 Karakas

3 Deathrite Shaman
4 Knight of the Reliquary
3 Tarmogoyf
4 Dark Confidant
1 Ulvenwald Tracker

3 Thoughtseize
3 Inquisition of K.

4 Abrupt Decay
3 Swords to Plowshares
2 Maelstrom Pulse
3 Green Sun's Zenith
3 Sylvan Library
2 Garruk Relentless

--BOARD--

2 Scavenging Ooze
2 Gaddock Teeg
3 Hymn to Tourach
3 Pithing Needle
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Pernicious Deed
1 Elspeth, Knight Errant

This is the Miracles list I played against:

2 Academy Ruins
1 Karakas
4 Flooded Strand
3 Misty Rainforest
1 Polluted Delta
1 Arid Mesa
4 Island
2 Plains
3 Tundra
2 Volcanic Island
23

4 Counterbalance
4 Sensei's Top
8

2 Vendilion Clique
2

4 Force of Will
2 Counterspell
2 Spell Pierce
4 Brainstorm
12

3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
3 Terminus
2 Entreat the Angels
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Engineered Explosives
1 Detention Sphere
1 Supreme Verdict
16

--BOARD--

2 Nevermore
1 Blood Moon
1 Pithing Needle
1 Moat
1 Venser, Shaper Savant
1 Rest in Peace
1 Elspeth, Knight Errant
2 Enlightened Tutor
3 Flusterstorm
2 Red Elemental Blast

----


Suffice to say, this techy Miracles list may not be the usual fare, but it's what I'd play at GP Denver. The E. Tutor board gives you a ton of flexibility in finding your Combo (CB+Top) and in having answers to the big players in the format. Blood Moon hoses BUG, as does Rest in Peace. Moat screws most people over; Flusterstorm clears out Combo; REB mucks tons of things; Needle hits Liliana, Deathrite, and other stuff you might encounter; Nevermore is a tutorable answer to Lingering Souls. I had Sulfur Elemental and Meddling Mage in here, but I couldn't tutor creatures. Nevermore against BUG's Abrupt Decays is also pretty tight.

Point being, this deck also has tutorable and easily recurrable Engineered Explosives, which seemed to do the most work on my answers. We play seven sideboarded games and 5 preboard; I won 3 preboard and 5 postboard. Moat ended all the games I lose, usually in conjunction with a timely Engineered Explosives or a Rest in Peace to slow me down enough to lock me out, then Entreat the Angels happened.

Pithing Needle and Gaddock Teeg were the all-stars. Needle on Top usually won me the game (except when I got Moated and drew nothing), and Gaddock Teeg was a huge beating, forcing my opponent to dig for STP through my discard and other pressure.

Garruk Relentless was fine here, and usually pooped a few 2/2's and killed a Clique/got murdered by Clique. Clique really hurts Garruk, and opposing Planeswalker strategies, but it was fine. In the matchups where he's good, he's REALLY good, but this matchups, he's only okay due to Clique. I took out Tracker and Maze in my sideboarding, which made it really hard to defend my Garruk, but there's not much I can do. I think a single Garruk will stay in due to having more value in other matchups and people removing Clique against this deck (since it's not great).

I felt really good in this matchup, but my Forest could have been Dryad Arbor again. It can be awkward, but I think it might be fine. People kept encouraging me to put it back in due to the amount of Liliana. I may do that, but we'll see.

In all honesty, I'd probably cut Garruk #2 for Deathrite #4 to maximize the Deathrite wars, since he's just that good. Couple that with more removal and GSZ to fetch them, and we're winning the DRS wars. Rest in Peace just accidentally destroys us and BUG, though. Too many times I sat with somewhat pitiful Deathrite Shamans and 0/1 Goyfs. I think if you suspect RIP, board out a Goyf. Very simple.

All in all, I'm liking my list, a variant of this is what I'm going to play almost for sure in Denver.

-Matt

[dballard]

@Matt - I'm wondering how often you're pulling off multiple removal (not including your own guys) with Maelstrom Pulse?

If you replaced them with Vindicates (to still kill lands if needed) could you remove a Wasteland to better diversify your mana pool? Maybe get that Dryad back in there?

[Barbed Blightning]

So I ran this list last night:

4 Verdant Catacombs
3 Marsh Flats
1 Windswept Heath
3 Bayou
2 Scrubland
1 Savannah
2 Forest
1 Plains
1 Swamp
3 Wasteland
1 Maze of Ith
1 Karakas

3 Deathrite Shaman
4 Knight of the Reliquary
3 Tarmogoyf
4 Dark Confidant
1 Ulvenwald Tracker

3 Thoughtseize
3 Inquisition of K.

4 Abrupt Decay
3 Swords to Plowshares
2 Maelstrom Pulse
3 Green Sun's Zenith
3 Sylvan Library
2 Garruk Relentless

--BOARD--

2 Scavenging Ooze
2 Gaddock Teeg
3 Hymn to Tourach
3 Pithing Needle
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Pernicious Deed
1 Elspeth, Knight Errant

This is the Miracles list I played against:

2 Academy Ruins
1 Karakas
4 Flooded Strand
3 Misty Rainforest
1 Polluted Delta
1 Arid Mesa
4 Island
2 Plains
3 Tundra
2 Volcanic Island
23

4 Counterbalance
4 Sensei's Top
8

2 Vendilion Clique
2

4 Force of Will
2 Counterspell
2 Spell Pierce
4 Brainstorm
12

3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
3 Terminus
2 Entreat the Angels
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Engineered Explosives
1 Detention Sphere
1 Supreme Verdict
16

--BOARD--

2 Nevermore
1 Blood Moon
1 Pithing Needle
1 Moat
1 Venser, Shaper Savant
1 Rest in Peace
1 Elspeth, Knight Errant
2 Enlightened Tutor
3 Flusterstorm
2 Red Elemental Blast

----


Suffice to say, this techy Miracles list may not be the usual fare, but it's what I'd play at GP Denver. The E. Tutor board gives you a ton of flexibility in finding your Combo (CB+Top) and in having answers to the big players in the format. Blood Moon hoses BUG, as does Rest in Peace. Moat screws most people over; Flusterstorm clears out Combo; REB mucks tons of things; Needle hits Liliana, Deathrite, and other stuff you might encounter; Nevermore is a tutorable answer to Lingering Souls. I had Sulfur Elemental and Meddling Mage in here, but I couldn't tutor creatures. Nevermore against BUG's Abrupt Decays is also pretty tight.

Point being, this deck also has tutorable and easily recurrable Engineered Explosives, which seemed to do the most work on my answers. We play seven sideboarded games and 5 preboard; I won 3 preboard and 5 postboard. Moat ended all the games I lose, usually in conjunction with a timely Engineered Explosives or a Rest in Peace to slow me down enough to lock me out, then Entreat the Angels happened.

Pithing Needle and Gaddock Teeg were the all-stars. Needle on Top usually won me the game (except when I got Moated and drew nothing), and Gaddock Teeg was a huge beating, forcing my opponent to dig for STP through my discard and other pressure.

Garruk Relentless was fine here, and usually pooped a few 2/2's and killed a Clique/got murdered by Clique. Clique really hurts Garruk, and opposing Planeswalker strategies, but it was fine. In the matchups where he's good, he's REALLY good, but this matchups, he's only okay due to Clique. I took out Tracker and Maze in my sideboarding, which made it really hard to defend my Garruk, but there's not much I can do. I think a single Garruk will stay in due to having more value in other matchups and people removing Clique against this deck (since it's not great).

I felt really good in this matchup, but my Forest could have been Dryad Arbor again. It can be awkward, but I think it might be fine. People kept encouraging me to put it back in due to the amount of Liliana. I may do that, but we'll see.

In all honesty, I'd probably cut Garruk #2 for Deathrite #4 to maximize the Deathrite wars, since he's just that good. Couple that with more removal and GSZ to fetch them, and we're winning the DRS wars. Rest in Peace just accidentally destroys us and BUG, though. Too many times I sat with somewhat pitiful Deathrite Shamans and 0/1 Goyfs. I think if you suspect RIP, board out a Goyf. Very simple.

All in all, I'm liking my list, a variant of this is what I'm going to play almost for sure in Denver.

-Matt

I definitely like it, too. 3 STP and zero tops concern me; I've been testing 2 tops and one library, and gotta say that is could easily turn into the inverse: two library one top. Library really is the nuts, and the draw has been super powerful versus blue control (all been said before.) However, top is great at dodging deed and helping you dig multiple times a turn. I wouldn't want to leave home without one.

In light of the nonbasic hate, I also think people may pick up Gobs at Denver, since nonbasic hate (esp. Blood Moon) is laughable against that deck. Thus, I'd want 4 STP. That's my two cents.

Otherwise, it looks much like what I and lambert101 are running, sans Lilly for GSZ. Solid.

[lavafrogg]

apparently dropping knight of the preliminary for lingering souls is the new hotness across the metagame with junk taking down a big tourney with lingering souls and cabal therapy mainboard.

I just realized that I was page behind the times...

catching up with discussion I think lingering souls is better against the current meta. Abrupt decay and graveyard hate are pretty bad against spirit tokens An the same thing can be said about snapcaster mage and terminus.

[sdematt]

apparently dropping knight of the preliminary for lingering souls is the new hotness across the metagame with junk taking down a big tourney with lingering souls and cabal therapy mainboard.

I just realized that I was page behind the times...

catching up with discussion I think lingering souls is better against the current meta. Abrupt decay and graveyard hate are pretty bad against spirit tokens An the same thing can be said about snapcaster mage and terminus.

I don't know, I feel Souls can be rocked pretty easily if you know what you're doing. E. Plagues are great, but I'd also say Deed, especially against Stoneblade, is VERY good.

-Matt

[Esper3k]

I don't know, I feel Souls can be rocked pretty easily if you know what you're doing. E. Plagues are great, but I'd also say Deed, especially against Stoneblade, is VERY good.

-Matt

While Deed clears away most of Stoneblade's dudes (although I don't think it'll usually catch a Batterskull), my biggest problem with it against them is that it doesn't deal with Jace, which is really problematic for us once it resolves.

I actually like Maelstrom Pulse quite a bit since it can catch everything that matters (Jace, Batterskull, hordes of Lingering Soul tokens when they vomit/Intuition them out).

[sdematt]

Or you can go with EE as well instead of Deed, but Deed just screws so many random decks. Oozes out of the board just hoses Lingering Souls, since I think Esper runs off the assumption the Deathrite players won't have enough activations to deal with the Lingering Souls before they get tokens out of them. I will not make that mistake :P

-Matt

[godofallu]

Or you can go with EE as well instead of Deed, but Deed just screws so many random decks. Oozes out of the board just hoses Lingering Souls, since I think Esper runs off the assumption the Deathrite players won't have enough activations to deal with the Lingering Souls before they get tokens out of them. I will not make that mistake :P

-Matt

Just remember that usually Lingering Souls will be cast twice without giving the opposing player priority. So shaman and ooze can't ever actually target the spell while it is in the graveyard.

[lavafrogg]

I don't know, I feel Souls can be rocked pretty easily if you know what you're doing. E. Plagues are great, but I'd also say Deed, especially against Stoneblade, is VERY good.

-Matt

so they bring in plagues against you to stop your souls, so they don't bring in perish? awesome.

[sdematt]

Esperblade doesn't bring in Plagues, I'm talking BUG. BUG still brings in it's 1 Deed against us in an attempt to blowout, but, I'm not sure if that does enough for them. Esperblade still brings in the 1-2 Perish against you. Oh well.

So after a ton of Miracle testing (again, since it's relevant), I've come to the conclusion that to reliably beat Moat, you need Qasali Pridemage. I know this was said before, but I just want to say it again: Run Pridemage. If GSZ, 1-of is most likely fine. That's what I'll be doing.

I'll update more from Denver, but right now, I've got 5 hours before I leave to catch my flight. Boo at cheap 7am flights at an airport 2 hours away :/

-Matt

[Hanni]

Esperblade doesn't bring in Plagues, I'm talking BUG. BUG still brings in it's 1 Deed against us in an attempt to blowout, but, I'm not sure if that does enough for them. Esperblade still brings in the 1-2 Perish against you. Oh well.

So after a ton of Miracle testing (again, since it's relevant), I've come to the conclusion that to reliably beat Moat, you need Qasali Pridemage. I know this was said before, but I just want to say it again: Run Pridemage. If GSZ, 1-of is most likely fine. That's what I'll be doing.

I'll update more from Denver, but right now, I've got 5 hours before I leave to catch my flight. Boo at cheap 7am flights at an airport 2 hours away :/

Or Vindicate.

For example, here's my modified Deadguy Rock list with Shaman's:

// Lands
4 [ZEN] Marsh Flats
4 [ZEN] Verdant Catacombs
3 [ON] Windswept Heath
2 [R] Bayou
2 [R] Scrubland
1 [R] Savannah
1 [UNH] Swamp
1 [LG] Karakas
4 [TE] Wasteland

// Creatures
4 [RTR] Deathrite Shaman
4 [RAV] Dark Confidant
4 [FUT] Tarmogoyf
4 [CFX] Knight of the Reliquary

// Spells
4 [LRW] Thoughtseize
3 [ROE] Inquisition of Kozilek
4 [AT] Hymn to Tourach
4 [IA] Swords to Plowshares
4 [RTR] Abrupt Decay
3 [AP] Vindicate

// Sideboard
SB: 1 [LG] The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
SB: 2 [WWK] Bojuka Bog
SB: 2 [SOK] Pithing Needle
SB: 2 [BOK] Umezawa's Jitte
SB: 2 [LRW] Gaddock Teeg
SB: 2 [WL] Serenity
SB: 2 [TE] Choke
SB: 2 [ON] Infest

[sdematt]

I'm already playing 2 Pulse.

-Matt

[Hanni]

Shaman dodges Moat too, so as long as you can push some early damage through, he can close it out if you can't find an enchantment removal spell. Aggressively attacking their manabase can keep them off of 2WW, too. In the more tempo-oriented lists, anyway. Postboard Chokes alone can be a beating sometimes. Postboard Needles keeping them off Top can prevent them from hitting 2WW consistently, too.

[sdematt]

While this did happen, I'm looking for answers after a Moat has successfully landed and Deathrite have run out of ammo due to RIP/Relic of Progenitus. Corner case, but it happened twice today.

-Matt

[Hanni]

Like I said, Vindicate has been golden for me. Deals with so much randomness while complimenting an LD attack plan, if the opportunity presents itself to do so. Shaman accelerating into Vindicates makes them so much more effective than they used to be in my older lists, at any rate.

[sdematt]

While true, juicing 4 Angel tokens and 3 Deathrite Shaman today was also pretty nuts.

-Matt

[Esper3k]

Lingering Souls is pretty good against Moat too! :)

[Megadeus]

Sorry if Im a bit off the current topic, but is natural order a possibility in here? It essentially gives you an awesome trump in fair matches. Then against control they get a 2 turn clock to terminus. I lovr the card and just aquired a set and was thinking NO Rock sounds sweet.