[Deck] Goblins

[Sasan]

That is not true considering Chalice vs Thalia: The Storm player can easily play around Chalice but without a removal Thalia means GG.

Thalia is as effective as Pillar in the Storm MU, true. But Pillar is a limited card and cannot be boarded in vs Lets say SNT decks.

I agree that Thalia is not MD material but the best combo hate a sideboard that wants to have an answer for all combo MUs could ask for.

Remember that you only need one Plateau in the MD to support her as she has synergy with Caverns and Vial.

Thalia has a clock and slows down the combo player. What else could you ask for?

[Lejay]

At no point I said Thalia wasn't one of the best storm hate, sure it is. But again everytime I look at storm stats it's 3-4% of the metagame. I'll repeat that, 3-4% of the metagame. Cabal therapy discards any sweepers but terminus (and you could name brainstorm), deals very nicely with stoneforge, combos with stingscourger, and finally increases your combo match-ups. And probably far more against show and tell than Thalia.

[Sasan]

Storm will rise as BUG has an awful MU vs Storm.

Cabal Therapy is nice but you need at least 2-3 Badlands to support it fast enough. You don't have room for Ports then. But Ports are a must in the current meta.

[Einherjer]

Storm will rise as BUG has an awful MU vs Storm.

Which BUG deck?

Greetings

[Lejay]

Cabal Therapy is nice but you need at least 2-3 Badlands to support it fast enough. You don't have room for Ports then. But Ports are a must in the current meta.

Well I'll agree with you on the first point. You definitely can't play ports+souls+enough black sources. But port ceased being good enough in the legacy metagame long ago, current format has become very fast. I definitely see more interest in playing cabals. What do you want to deal with using ports ? Storm ? Tempo decks ? That would be a bit of a joke. Miracle has 1 mana wraths and is seeing less and less play. People play DRS also. It's very marginally good versus show and tell as 3 mana is easy to catch even against port when you run fetchlands and sol lands.
It's good versus enchantress. I don't thing that's a concern.

[jrw1985]

The problem with that paragraph is that you could replace "Thalia" by "pyrostatic pillar" or "chalice of the void" it would be almost the same. I tested Thalia and it is worse than cabal therapy against any deck except storm. And cabal therapy still gets you wins against that deck too. I'm not even talking about high tide which can combo through Thalia while cabal is one of the worst cards for him out of a deck that can sacrifice it so easily. The fact that Thalia is only better against an archetype that oscillates between 3 and 4 % of the metagame means you don't want it as a main deck card (which means not at all since you probably don't want a triple splash).

I don't really know how to argue with someone that says Pyrostatic Pillar is almost the same as Thalia... Cuz, ya know, Pillar isn't playable.

As far as CT is concerned, it's a pretty weak card in a Goblin deck. We can't really abuse its sac effect (like Nic Fit and Rector Omniscience could) and the first CT is always cast blind since we don't run other discard effects or Probes. So if you want to compare CT to Thalia you need to recognize that CT is a 1:2 most of the time, that is reduces your clock instead of speeding it up, and that your opponent can always just Brainstorm away your obvious CT targets.

Storm will rise as BUG has an awful MU vs Storm.

Yeah, I switched up my deck yesterday and dropped the W splash altogether to focus on making my deck better against midrang BUG-type decks. Lo and Behold, there were 5 Storm decks of the 16 at my local weekly last night! I still managed to go 3-1 though. My loss came to (you guessed it) Storm. My other 3 matches were against Food Chain combo (which Thalia is good against), Reanimator (which Thalia is good against), and UW Control (which Thalia is Eh against).

[Sasan]

BUG Delver has a terrible MU vs ANT. If you don't believe me, please try to win with BUG Delver vs a good ANT Player and come back to post your results.

If I talk about BUG in a Goblin thread I always mean BUG Delver. BUG control is not as hard as the Tempo MU for a Goblin player.

[wcm8]

BUG Delver has a terrible MU vs ANT.

“The only matchups I'm currently afraid of are the Team America BUG decks." - Ari Lax

[nitewolf9]

SPAM anyone?

May I ask how often you won vs ANT with BUG Delver? Post your results.

Pretty much every time I've played against it in a tournament, 7 or 8 times for ANT specifically, many more for TES, but once in a top 4 match at a SCG open against Ari Lax. And I've been playing BUG delver longer than anyone. If the BUG player isn't a donkey it's terrible for ANT.

[wcm8]

May I ask how often you won vs ANT with BUG Delver? Post your results.

You realize that you're responding to Dan Signorigni?

ANT has an awful, awful, awful matchup against BUG, particularly the tempo versions. Like 30-70.

[Sasan]

I don't want to reply to that as this topic should not become a BUG thread. I just wanted to say that Thalia has many good applications vs Combo and I don't understand why this is even in question or compared to terrible narrow cards like pillar.


Entirely correct. This is a Goblins thread and not a BUG v. ANT thread. I've had to come in here twice today to clean things out. Please don't make me come back again. Let's stay on topic.

Hi-Val

[jrw1985]

OK back on topic:

Last night I played a MonoR deck with 2 Sparksmith main and 4 Relic in the sideboard. I played:
Food Chain Combo 2-1
UW Control 2-0
Reanimator 2-0
TES 1-2

When I look at these MUs I wish I had been playing a Rw deck with 3 Thalia MD. Thalia has been great against a host of random combo decks, of which I faced 3 last night. Had I been running Thalia I could have beaten Reanimator on my own merit (and not off the misplays my opponent made last night) and I also would have had 1 Karakas floating around to help deal with the fatties. Against TES I probably would have won the match. Thalia against UW doesn't make the MU significantly better or worse.

Playing a MonoR build for a night was fun, but it reminded me of the power the W splash provides which monoR can't duplicate. Unless my local meta completely switches back to Control, Delver, and Blade decks I'll plan on keeping Thalia around.

And let's not forget the badassery that is RiP.

[Chatto]

All this talking makes me go and try Thalia myself. Not sure if it works for me, but I'm willing to try (just to find out myself).

So, finally got myself two Taiga's for a Green-splash, now thinking of getting a second Plateau to go for Naya Goblins. My question is: could someone post a example list of Naya Goblins?

1) How many Duels would you run?
2) Port or no Port?

For reference, currently I am running this list:

Core (21)

1 Siege-Gang Commander
4 Goblin Warchief
4 Goblin Ringleader
4 Goblin Lackey
4 Goblin Matron
4 Aether Vial

Other (17)

1 Goblin Sharpshooter
1 Stingscourger
1 Goblin Chieftain
1 Tuktuk Scrapper
1 Krenko, Mob Boss
1 Skirk Prospector
2 Tarfire
3 Mogg War Marshal
3 Gempalm Incinerator
3 Goblin Piledriver

Mana (22)

1 Wooded Foothills
1 Bloodstained Mire
2 Taiga
3 Arid Mesa
3 Rishadan Port
4 Mountain
4 Wasteland
4 Cavern of Souls

Sideboard (15)

3 Pyrokinesis
3 Relic of Progenitus
3 Krosan Grip
3 Red Elemental Blast
3 Chalice of the Void

Green-splash is mainly for Krosan Grip.

Thanks very much in advance!

[metamet]

OK back on topic:
Last night I played a MonoR deck with 2 Sparksmith main and 4 Relic in the sideboard. I played:
Food Chain Combo 2-1

Sparksmith was phenomenal against me and my Deathrites. As much as I want you to get rid of them, don't. :P

[namrufmot]

Just a quick local report from a 12 man tourney:

Land
3 Plateaus
3 Mountains
6 Fetches
4 Wastelands
4 Caverns
3 Ports

Goblins
4 Lackey
4 Warchief
4 Matron
4 Piledriver
4 Ringleader
4 Gempalm
3 MWM
2 Stings
1 Skirk
1 Shooter
1 SGC
1 TukTuk

Artifacts
4 Vial

SB
3 Chalice
3 Thalia
4 Faerie Macabre
4 Pyrokensis
1 REB

Notice I dropped out Krenko for another Sting - onlyl because I was told there were going to be 3-4 reanimator decks out of the ten - there wasn't though.

Round 1: Some weird version of Junk I assume. I fried tons of Shamans with Gempalms and PD had to be chumped by his goyfs. Game 1 me. Game two he drops a Plague mid game but I still get around it by matroning for 2/2 goblins and swinging. :D I win in 2.

Round 2: Goblins. I was lucky enough to drop a Shooter first that cleared his side. Then he takes control and gets me down to 4. I draw a MWM that buys me another turn. I topdeck a Ringleader and roll into Warchiefs and PDs. I swing. Game 1 me. Game two we both side in Pyros and was lucky enough to draw one first. I win in 2.

Round 3: BUG. More Shamans and Goyfs. Gempalm was a champ and I found myself Matroning for him quite often. I just slowly beat him down. Game 1 me. Game 2 was horrible for him. I kept a hand with a vial, mountain, and 2 Wastes. I see he doesn't drop a land turn 3 so I began to Waste him. He draws a land and I draw my third Waste. I actually apologized before I Wasted his third and only land. :D I win in 2.

Round 4: ANT. He goes off on turn three and I sit there and play with myself. Lost game 1. Game two I side in Chalice and Thalia. I mulligan into a Chalice and play it for 0. He still goes off on turn 3. I lose in two and take second place.

Thalia did jack squat for me all night. Maybe it was the matchups but I never needed her and certainly wouldn't MD her unless something drastic happens in the meta. Sb material? I suppose.

Now my big question - how the heck to I stop ANT combo? Do I just make it pretty much an auto-loss and be happy to crush other decks?

[Amon Amarth]

Now my big question - how the heck to I stop ANT combo? Do I just make it pretty much an auto-loss and be happy to crush other decks?

Your option is to board in a up to 6 cards and mull properly. Chalice, MBT, Discard, REB, and co. are your best options here. You'll probably still lose. Storm Combo is very hard. The other combo decks are easier to hate on and/or are slower too.

[ScatmanX]

Am I the only one around here that think that Goblins could ass rape the shit out of the top8 decks of the GP Denver?

[Tormod]

Am I the only one around here that think that Goblins could ass rape the shit out of the top8 decks of the GP Denver?

I dunno, I saw a lot of Engineered Plagues.

But other than that, ya!

[ScatmanX]

I dunno, I saw a lot of Engineered Plagues.

But other than that, ya!

6, but sure, maybe 2-3 Krosan Grips are the way to go, like some people play already.

[jrw1985]

Am I the only one around here that think that Goblins could ass rape the shit out of the top8 decks of the GP Denver?

I really want to see a breakdown of the decks that were played at the GP. The Wizards coverage only shows Top Tables, which is kinda vague and doesn't give a very good picture of what that tourney's meta looked like. Regarldess, there was 0 goblins coverage that I saw. No gobbo decklists, no gobbos at the Top Tables, no gobbo feature matches. I'm very interested to see if that was because noone was playing goblins or if goblins were just being beaten up all day.

The real story of that GP is Esperblade. The Esperblade list that won this GP is nearly identical to the Esperblade list that won the Indianapolis GP in March and 2 Esperblade lists that Top-8ed GP Atlanta and Ghent over the summer. Expect to see more Lingering Souls at you locals again.