[Deck] Dredge

[raikenxy]

If people just sat down with the damn thing, sorted a stock list out and gold-fished a few hundred pre and post-board hands they would be fine.

The hardest games to win with Dredge are obviously games two and three. This is where you have to have experience in tournament play to make playing it worth your while. Yeah, the deck gets stupid hands and wins games without interaction sometimes. But when you're in round six or seven of an eight or nine-round tournament and need a "win and in," you had better believe your opponent is (probably) competent enough to at least give you trouble if you put the deck on autopilot and think you're going to cruise to the elimination rounds. Not gonna happen.

Every time I pick up Manaless Dredge and play it I go into each match assuming my opponent is prepared and capable enough of beating me flat out. I play each hand tight - super tight. I stay humble in the face of my opponents and give each and every one of them the benefit of the doubt. But you have to fucking practice. Longevity is what makes you a better player with any deck, and while it appears on paper to be easy to play, it just really isn't. Graveyard hate has shit to do with keeping the deck down; it's poor piloting. And until people start realizing that they will continue to under-perform with it in large events.

If you're new to playing it and want to master it, test it in three phases like I did:

Phase One: Play a few hundred hands pre-board by yourself until you get comfortable with making decisions and how the deck works. Have a metagamed sideboard prepared for later.
Phase Two: Find a friend and test a gauntlet through each competitive deck in the format pre-board. Do this until you're comfortable playing against those decks.
Phase Three: Assess each match-up's strengths and weaknesses and build a list of what to bring in and what to take out. Then test against the same gauntlet post-board until you've got a feel for what to sub in and out and make adjustments as needed.

Remember: in a tournament, you have to win two games to win a match. This might mean having to play three games, which means that there's a reasonable chance that 66.7% of your individual rounds in a tournament will include sideboard cards (games two and three).

Think of playing Dredge like playing a guitar. It's not that hard to play Major (easier | game one) chords once you get them down, but in order to get better you have to combine those chords to ultimately make an entire song (harder | games two and three). If you want to make your song good, you need to decide what chords work well together. This necessitates practice, something you have to have if you want to succeed at this game - and Dredge in particular.

i agree with you completely about poor piloting being the primary obstacle to deck. When I first put dredge together i thought the most fun and best way to play was just simply blowing people out turn by turn by making the most explosive plays possible. I used to get killed by people playing relative gy hate such as crypt and relic and leyline. i just had no diea how to bet these hate pieces. but honestly over time, and practice, it becomes so much easier. graveyard hate is really more of a nuisance then anthing. the level ofpatience required to play dredge is underrated, and the new flavors of the month of the month in RIP and Deathrite shaman are not dredge killers. deathrite shaman is too slow against us to do anything meaningful game one anyway, and rest in peace come down on turn TWO. both irrelevent game one. and we already have answers to both of these threats in our sideboards anyway. Firestorm is pretty damn good against any hate thats creature based, and rest in peace still dies to nature's claim. dredge wont be going anywhere, if anything these new pieces will just be another false sense of security non dredge players can hide behind

[Godmode]

Looks like Nicholas Rausch is back with a neat Manaless Dredge decklist for the StarCityGames.com Legacy Open in Columbus.

Deck Tech: Manaless Dredge with Nick Rausch from StarCityGames.com




2 Flayer of the Hatebound
4 Golgari Grave-Troll
4 Golgari Thug
4 Ichorid
4 Narcomoeba
4 Nether Shadow
4 Phantasmagorian
3 Shambling Shell
4 Stinkweed Imp
4 Street Wraith
3 Griselbrand
4 Dryad Arbor

4 Bridge from Below
3 Contagion
1 Sickening Shoal
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Dread Return

Sideboard:
3 Nature's Claim
3 Noxious Revival
2 Sickening Shoal
4 Reverent Silence
1 Forest
2 Verdant Catacomb

Source: StarCityGames.com

[Godmode]

More good news...

Also, with a rather standard LED Dredge list, Timothy Froehlig made it through day 1 undefeated at the Grand Prix Denver.


Froehlig's Decklist:

4 Cephalid Coliseum
4 City of Brass
4 Gemstone Mine

1 Flame-Kin Zealot
4 Golgari Grave-Troll
2 Golgari Thug
3 Ichorid
4 Narcomoeba
4 Putrid Imp
4 Stinkweed Imp

3 Breakthrough
4 Bridge from Below
4 Cabal Therapy
2 Careful Study
1 Darkblast
2 Dread Return
4 Faithless Looting
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
2 Tormod's Crypt

Sideboard:
1 Ancestor's Chosen
1 Ancient Grudge
1 Angel of Despair
1 Dread Return
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
3 Firestorm
1 Ichorid
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
4 Nature's Claim
1 Ray of Revelation

Source: Wizards.com

[TerribleTim68]

Looks like Nicholas Rausch is back with a neat Manaless Dredge decklist...

Fwiw - That list is actually Hollywood's list that he's been developing for a very long time now.

[Godmode]

Fwiw - That list is actually Hollywood's list that he's been developing for a very long time now.

Thanks for pointing that. I actually realized that and found weird that Nick didn't mention Michael Keller (a.k.a. Hollywood) at all, but it didn't bother me much because Nick never mentioned that he "created" the list.

[DarkJester]

More good news...

Also, with a rather standard LED Dredge list, Timothy Froehlig made it through day 1 undefeated at the Grand Prix Denver.


Froehlig's Decklist:

4 Cephalid Coliseum
4 City of Brass
4 Gemstone Mine

1 Flame-Kin Zealot
4 Golgari Grave-Troll
2 Golgari Thug
3 Ichorid
4 Narcomoeba
4 Putrid Imp
4 Stinkweed Imp

3 Breakthrough
4 Bridge from Below
4 Cabal Therapy
2 Careful Study
1 Darkblast
2 Dread Return
4 Faithless Looting
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
2 Tormod's Crypt

Sideboard:
1 Ancestor's Chosen
1 Ancient Grudge
1 Angel of Despair
1 Dread Return
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
3 Firestorm
1 Ichorid
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
4 Nature's Claim
1 Ray of Revelation

Source: Wizards.com

I don't understand this list. Why does he play 2 Tormods MAIN?

[Mr. Froggy]

And people were worried Dredge was dead? :) I'm happy about this :)

[joemauer]

I don't understand this list. Why does he play 2 Tormods MAIN?

Tech against Bug?

[igri_is_a_bk]

The picture is not the same as that list. I'm unsure if that is intentional or not. I see Paradise in the picture, but that's not anywhere in the 75. Maybe those Crypts were a typo, and are supposed to be lands?

[MRmtg]

Thanks for pointing that. I actually realized that and found weird that Nick didn't mention Michael Keller (a.k.a. Hollywood) at all, but it didn't bother me much because Nick never mentioned that he "created" the list.

i actually talked to nick about that at columbus..he said he got the deck off of the source...

[KobeBryan]

i actually talked to nick about that at columbus..he said he got the deck off of the source...

He really doesn't wanna give hollywood credit.

Anyways.

Looks like no one even bothers against dredge anymore. You see those sideboards, people don't even run 1 graveyard hate.

[Ramanas]

He really doesn't wanna give hollywood credit.

From the manaless thread.

Sorry hollywood. During the deck tech it completely slipped my mind to give u credit where its due and as soon it was over i remebered i wanted to do it and beat myself up over it. I do appreciate the pm and advice. Don't ever stop improving the deck.

As far as the tournament goes i did get a little unlucky in a matchup vs jund with him topdecking a case bolt to kill me the turn before he dies as well as having to play against 2 other combo decks. Ended up 3-4 drop but i would definatly play the deck again as its great for the current metagame.

It's not that he didn't want to give him credit. He simply forgot. Can we stop jumping down his throat for it?

Looks like no one even bothers against dredge anymore. You see those sideboards, people don't even run 1 graveyard hate.

I completely agree. The amount of GY hate in SBs from what I've seen has been on the decline for a while now. I don't know if it will get low enough for dredge to steal a tourny win, but we might be getting close.

[Godmode]

The picture is not the same as that list. I'm unsure if that is intentional or not. I see Paradise in the picture, but that's not anywhere in the 75. Maybe those Crypts were a typo, and are supposed to be lands?

Thanks for pointing that. I didn't even notice it. I picked up the picture from the GP coverage, maybe it's not his list. This list shows the 2 Tormod's aswell, so the picture might be not his deck

[Godmode]

Btw, can anyone get Tim to post some sort of look back/mini report of the event here?

[GerryT]

The Crypts are Tarnished Citadels.

[Vandalize]

Why is this Thread so quiet? Everybody has been having trouble with Deathrites and stuff?

Ok, a little report from my locals might help, Went 3-1 with the following:

4 City of Brass
4 Cephalid Coliseum
4 Gemstone Mine
4 Golgari Grave-Troll
4 Stinkweed Imp
3 Golgari Thug
3 Putrid Imp
4 Narcomoeba
3 Ichorid
4 Faithless Looting
4 Careful Study
4 Breakthrough
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Cabal Therapy
2 Dread Return
1 Griselbrand
SB: 4 Nature's Claim
SB: 3 Faerie Macabre
SB: 3 Tarnished Citadel
SB: 1 Cabal Therapy
SB: 1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
SB: 1 Woodfall Primus
SB: 1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
SB: 1 Ancient Grudge

1) Jund (2-0)
G1: I win the die roll, and keep a powerful seven: Gemstone Mine, Cephalid Coliseum, Breakthrough, Lion's Eye Diamond, Faithless Looting, Bridge from Below, Griselbrand. It does lack a Dredger, but my turn 1 Looting finds a Stinkweed Imp, which I promptly dump with Bridge, cast LED and flashback Therapy, dredging 1 Narcomoeba and another Bridge, pass. He starts with Thoughtseize, taking away my Breakthrough. I untap for turn 2, dredge a little further, and cast Breakthrough into Griselbrand to seal the deal.

Sideboarding: nothing, I wasn't expecting Leyline of the Void.

G2: He starts with Deathrite Shaman, off a fetchland. That would be pretty scary if I hadn't drawn the following: City of Brass, Lion's Eye Diamond, Lion's Eye Diamond, Faithless Looting, Golgari Grave-Troll, Golgari Thug, Ichorid. I procede to cast Faithless Looting, flashback it, and cast another one that is dredged up, and build 16 Zombies on first turn. He concedes.

2) Esperblade (2-1)
G1: I keep a good seven on the draw, that has only Faithless Looting as business. He starts with Inquisition of Kozilek, immediately taking my Faithless Looting. I draw Lion's Eye Diamond for the turn and smile, casting it. It resolves. I dredge 11 cards deep, dumping some Ichorids and food in my graveyard. He plays Stoneforge Mystic into Batterskull, which is kinda silly, as I have a Therapy in my graveyard as well. I recur two Ichorids, dredge with GGT (hitting 1 bridge), I sacrifice my Ichorid to Cabal Therapy taking Batterskull, and attack with the other one. He decides not to block it and takes 3. Next turn, he cast a Brainstorm, fetches up, and pass. I retreive only one Ichorid this time, lacking food, and Dredge into another bridge. I attack with Ichorid + 2 tokens, and he blocks the token, and puts Jitte into play before combat phase, and I pass. He brainstorm again, and is unable to find Lingering Souls, so he ships back the turn. I retreive Ichorid once again, and now I dredge into Griselbrand. I Therapy for Swords to Plowshares and he shows me some Jace and discard, path is clear. I Return Griselbrand, dredge almost my whole deck, and make a 14/14 Golgari Grave-Troll. He draws for the turn, and concedes.

Sideboarding: -4 Lion's Eye Diamond, +3 Tarnished Citadel, +1 Cabal Therapy

G2: I mulligan into a weak six, and keep it. He starts with Thoughtseize, taking my Grave-Troll, and targets Surgical Extraction on it. I draw for the turn, play a Faithless Looting with can't find another dredger. He plays Stoneforge Mystic into Batterskull. I try to Therapy it, but he Forces it. Batterskull ends the game in 5 turns, as I draw blanks.

Sideboarding: -2 Dread Return, -1 Griselbrand, -1 Tarnished Citadel +4 Lion's Eye Diamond

G3: I keep a fast seven: City of Brass, Cephalid Coliseum, Stinkweed Imp, Golgari Grave-Troll, Careful Study, Careful Study, Narcomoeba. He mulligans to 5, and I can combo off turn 2 unmolested. He only plays a fetchland, Brainstorms into blanks and die to 8 Zombie tokens + Ichorids.

3) T.E.S (0-2)
G1: I start with Careful Study, preparing my turn 2 Coliseum. He starts with double Dark Ritual, double Lion's Eye Diamond, Infernal Tutor, break LEDs, Ad Nauseam, and Tendrils for 24. Sigh.

Sideboarding: -1 Griselbrand, -1 Ichorid +1 Cabal Therapy +1 Iona, Shield of Emeria

G2: I start with a blind Therapy on Lion's Eye Diamond, and I miss. He plays Ponder and pass. I play Faithless Looting, setting a Breakthrough next turn. He plays Brainstorm, finds what he needed, and procede to combo me out via Burning Wish to Diminishing Returns, and kills me with Tendrils for exact storm.

4) Team America BUG (2-0)
G1: He won the roll, and starts with Deathrite Shaman from an Underground Sea. I play Careful Study and drop two dredgers, setting up a Breakthrough. He Ponders and can't find a fetch or a green source and shuffle. He plays another Underground Sea, and Hymn to Tourach. Hymn takes two irrelevant cards from my hand. I cast Breakthrough dredge half my deck, and return Griselbrand to dredge the other half. He manages to blow my Zombies with Pernicious Deed, but Griselbrand is too much for him.

Sideboarding: nothing

G2: He starts with Ponder, shuffle and pass. I start with Putrid Imp. I have GGT and Coliseum in my hand, so I feel rather confident. He plays a land, and cast Delver of Secrets, and keeps a fetch untapped. I discard GGT in my upkeep, dredge 6, discard it again and blow up the Coliseum. He sighs and shows me double Spell Pierce plus Daze in his hand. I dredge into a lot of zombies, and try to Therapy him twice. He pierces the first, Dazes the second. He draws for the turn, and complains that Daze is an awful card, replay the land, cast Tarmogoyf and pass. I retreive Ichorids and beat him to 5 life (blocks with Tarmogoyf and Delver). He finally manages to Deed away my Tokens, but I have enough Ichorids to keep hitting, and two turns after, he's dead.




It was a side event for a Standard tournament that was happening in my local store, so we didn't get any prizes. Just playing for fun. I've really enjoyed the maindeck, and my deck didn't shit on me. Putrid Imp was almost never drawn, and Griselbrand is REALLY good as a Dread Return target. I might try some Bloodghast stuff in my next event, just for the lulz.

[ween]

I've always liked combo, but was feeling like playing more interactive lately so put together UR Delver, BUG and a Stax deck. However more recently Dredge has been calling to me and I put together a nonLED version to mess around with. Looks very fun, waiting on the cards. Thanks for all the many many pages I've trawled the last few days and keep it up!

[Juicy Karaage]

Played in my LGS and went 4-0

4 City of Brass
4 Cephalid Coliseum
4 Gemstone Mine
2 Undiscovered Paradise
4 Golgari Grave-Troll
4 Stinkweed Imp
3 Golgari Thug
4 Putrid Imp
4 Narcomoeba
3 Ichorid
4 Faithless Looting
4 Careful Study
4 Breakthrough
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Cabal Therapy

4 Nature's Claim
4 Ingot Chewer
3 Firestorm
2 Pithing Needle
2 Ashen Ghoul

Round 1: Jund 2-1

I was on the play and kept a seemingly good hand with 2 Draw spells, dredgers and a rainbow land. Faithless Looting, discard dredgers, go. He plays Thoughtsieze and takes away my Careful Study. Dredged into junk while he plays Death Rite Shaman. The game went uphill after that while i dredged into nothing useful.

+3 Firestorm +2 Pithing Needle -4 Breakthrough -1 LED

I started with a Cabal Therapy naming DRS, he revealed a hand with DRS and Nihil Spellbomb. He plays the spellbomb and passes. Played the Needle naming Nihil Spellbomb then proceeded to go off. Well, not much. 2 Zombies, Stinkweed Imp and a Narcomoeba later, he blows the needle with an Abrupt Decay and removes my Graveyard then played a Goyf and Grim Lavamancer with his life at 5. I swung for 4, killing him with a Firestorm for 1. Game 3 starts off with 4 Bridges 2 Ichorid being dredged out in T2, 8 Zombies and an Ichorid was too much for a lone DRS to handle.

Round 2: U/W/r Stoneblade 2-1
I lost a race against 2 flipped Delvers and Lightning Bolt.

+4 Ingot Chewer -4 Breakthrough

Chewer on Batterskull, created zombies, dredged out Golgari Thug, play thug, Therapy sac'd Thug naming STP, returned Chewer on the top of the deck, rinse and repeat. Game 3 pretty much played like Game 2. Gotta love his reaction when he realized that he's facing an infinite number of Chewers.

Round 3: U/W Stoneblade 2-1
He FoW'd my Faithless Looting, leaving me with a hand with 4 Lands, a Troll and a LED. Play land go, play land and LED which he Spell Pierced, forcing me to ping myself to pay for the 2 mana. Play land go. The game went on like that until he finally played SFM fetching Jitte. Cracked the LED in my upkeep to discard the Troll then dredged. Nothing notable came out, i then cracked all 3 Cephalid Coliseum. 4 Bridges 4 Narcomoebas 4 Cabal Therapy into 16 Zombies. He scoops

+4 Ingot Chewer +4 Nature's Claim -4 LED -4 Breakthrough

2 Surgical Extractions coupled with 2 Wastelands slowed me enough for Batterskull to kill me. Game 3 he kept an 1 land hand with 3 removals which all 3 Narcomoeba ate. Hard casted Thug and Ichorid did some beats until a Bridged finally came out then i Therapy'd his hand away

Round 4: BUG 2-0
He muligans to 5 with no land, FoW'd my Opening Looting, then FoW'd my Top Deck'd Putrid Imp. Played a Careful Study, LED, LED, Breakthrough

+3 Firestorm +2 Pithing Needle

Typical Dredge hand, he has no answers. He nuked my Graveyard with a Tormod's Crypt though but it was too late with 4 Zombies and an Ichorid



Yes, i'm playing with a SB of excessive hate

[ween]

As someone who just picked this up, perhaps you can explain something to me.

Why do you take out the Breakthrough in almost (not sure what you took out in the fourth) every match you described?

[joemauer]

As someone who just picked this up, perhaps you can explain something to me.

Why do you take out the Breakthrough in almost (not sure what you took out in the fourth) every match you described?

Games 2/3 are much more grindy than game 1. Breakthrough is too much of an all in card for grindy games.

Also, breakthrough is bad against decks that play discard on turn one since it is generally a card played on turn two.