Originally Posted by sdematt
You guys are silly.
Just because the Patriots win the Superbowl doesn't make them THE best team in the NFL.
The fact that all the lists are so similar blows my mind. And it supports my conviction that Esperblade is the best deck right now. If there are no "improvements" to make, it must be the best deck.
Belcher hasnt changed significantly since ever.
TES hasnt changed much either.
Neither are close to being "the Best deck". Stoneblade is powerful and rewards high skilled pilots. Thats the only conclusion I can draw from its performance over the last few GPs. I cannot say with certainty that Esper is the best deck in a complex format like Legacy. There are too many permutations to consider before that conclusion can be drawn.
West side
Find me on MTGO as Koby or rukcus -- @MTGKoby on Twitter
* Maverick is dead. Long live Maverick!
My Legacy stream
My MTG Blog - Work in progress
Belcher and TES haven't won 50% 0f the GPs in the last year.
Thresh/Mav/UW Control have been as consistent in GP Top-8's over the past year, but Esperblade has been doing the winning.
This isn't like football where you play every other team. This isn't a round-robin tournament. I'm sure Vidi played a variety of archetypes, but winning tournaments is also about luck in matchup pairings as well as play skill. Esperblade is a very solid deck choice in today's meta, but it's not 70% favoured in virtually EVERY matchup. That would be the "best" deck. Flash was the BEST deck at a certain time. Esperblade is not THE best, but Tier 1 with lots of game.
-Matt
Has anybody tried Liliana of the Veil coming out of the Esper Blade sideboard? If so, how have your results with it been?
I thought it might be good against combo and control decks. I've only gotten to play with Liliana a bit in the mirror so far. It seemed to be a card the other play had to answer in some way, but it didn't feel over the top. Liliana mostly just seemed annoying for the other guy. I'm up in the air on it.
Jimmy,
Good match last night! I highly considered Liliana, either in the main or the sideboard. The only problem with it is that it does not combine well with counter magic and removal - we want to hold answers in our hand, with does not play well with Liliana's +1 ability. However, once Liliana hit the board, it was difficult for me to handle and shut down Stoneforge Mystic very well (I couldn't cast SFM and equipment in the same turn, so I would have to discard one).
I wonder if Geist of Saint Traft isn't better vs. the mirror. I really like the combination of Liliana and Jace. However, I've only seen it used successfully in a BUG shell. What are your thoughts? What is your list?
I could see using Liliana vs. the following match-ups, with the following problems:
Combo - caps their hand size, but forces us to discard counterspells
Mirror - caps hand size, effectively turns the game into a top-deck war (unless Jace is present), but gives the player with Liliana the ability to -2 or -6.
Creature-based decks - can lock down the game after a sweeper, but may be too little, too late and forces us to discard spot removal. There is always the possibility that the other player has 0 cards in hand and that the +1 really hurts us, although it does improve sweepers by forcing players to either play cards or discard them.
"Never argue with a fool, people might not know the difference."
Hey Wizard!
Good game to you as well. I noticed that about Liliana too--I didn't like having to discard my good stuff. I think at one point I discarded a Sword of Feast and Famine just to tick up Liliana. But with your Jace on the board and brainstorming, I felt like that was my best option of removing Jace. I actually felt like Stoneforge was the bigger asset in that match, but did notice Liliana played a part in making it safe for Stoneforge Mystic.
My list:
4 Flooded Strand
3 Polluted Delta
2 Marsh Flats
3 Tundra
3 Underground Sea
1 Scrubland
2 Island
2 Plains
1 Swamp
1 Karakas
4 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Snapcaster Mage
2 Vendilion Clique
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Thoughtseize
3 Force of Will
2 Spell Pierce
2 Spell Snare
1 Counterspell
3 Jace, tms
1 Jitte
1 Batterskull
4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Vindicate
1 Engineered Explosives
Sideboard:
3 Dark Confidant
2 Liliana of the Veil (Thinking maybe this becomes a 3rd Vendilion Clique and possibly one other card)
3 Surgical Extraction
2 Supreme Verdict
1 Path to Exile
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Sword of Feast and Famine
1 Flusterstorm
1 Force of Will
Ideally in the mirror, I would go -3 Force of Will, -1 Swords, +3 Dark Confidant, +1 Sword of Feast and Famine
Yes - Liliana is not very good in this deck for obvious reasons. However playing like 3 Geists in the SB helps alot vs both Stoneforge AND Bug. Im playing 3 side atm and its mvp every time.
Agreed. Geist of the Saint Traft is TEH shit now. Hexproof beats Legacy, and he's a hell of a clock in a slow deck like Stoneblade. He can be protected via Karakas and just wins if he can carry Sword of Feast and Famine.
I've been tweaking this deck a little, because now I see every black deck packing 2~3 Engineered Plagues on sideboards, making Lingering Souls not that stellar.
This is my latest list:
4 Flooded Strand
4 Polluted Delta
1 Marsh Flats
3 Tundra
3 Underground Sea
1 Scrubland
2 Island
2 Karakas
1 Plains
1 Swamp
2 Mishra's Factory
4 Stoneforge Mystic
3 Snapcaster Mage
2 Geist of the Saint Traft
1 Vendilion Clique
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Brainstorm
3 Force of Will
3 Spell Snare
2 Spell Pierce
2 Thoughtseize
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Batterskull
1 Sword of Feast and Famine
1 Engineered Explosives
SB: 3 Surgical Extraction
SB: 2 Rest in Peace
SB: 2 Supreme Verdict
SB: 2 Disenchant
SB: 2 Flusterstorm
SB: 1 Detention Sphere
SB: 1 Umezawa's Jitte
SB: 1 Engineered Explosives
SB: 1 Force of Will
Shaved one Snapcaster Mage, due to infinite Deathrite Shaman decks, and cut Counterspell for another Spell Snare just to fit Mishra's Factory, which is a house. Sideboard pretty much covers everything. I'd say this deck worst matchup is Maverick, but that deck is dying slowly, so it's not a big problem.
Let your Dredge 6 be: Narco, Narco, Narco, Bridge, Bridge, Dread Return
There was a time where I drew Stoneforge and I could have cast it and pulled an equipment into my hand, but I didn't have enough mana to cast it, so the equipment would have just gone to the bin with Liliana's +1.
In your ideal sideboarding vs. the mirror, you don't list Liliana, yet you brought them in in our match-up. I think anytime there are two control/slower mid-range decks facing off, Planeswalkers do very well.
I notice no maindeck sweepers in your list? Why? Is it a meta decision? Do you mainly play on MTGO? Why no Lingering Souls?
I understand no maindeck sweepers because you are running Geist. However, why no love for Lingering Souls?
"Never argue with a fool, people might not know the difference."
I actually can't make my mind on the 2 mishras , because I am hesitating on either playing 2 mishras or 2 wastelands in these spots. I feel like both configuration have served me in the past, but ultimately I just can't make up my mind on what fits better. Right now, I am leaning towards mishra, simply because I feel like it's a much better draw later in the game and that it can't be targeted by decay, among other reasons.
how do you guys feel about this? where are your preference going, if you play 2 wastes or 2 mishras in your lists?
I played with Wastelands at the GP, and they would have been better served as Factory's at that tournament. With DRS everywhere, it's hard to take good advantage of the mana denial. There are very few lands that give this deck trouble too, such as Maze of Ith and Creeping Tar-pit. Neither of these two lands are seeing much play however.
West side
Find me on MTGO as Koby or rukcus -- @MTGKoby on Twitter
* Maverick is dead. Long live Maverick!
My Legacy stream
My MTG Blog - Work in progress
I feel like Waste is so much stronger in the current meta. The only big advantage of man-lands is evading sweepers and this deck already does pretty well against Miracles.
EDIT: Just read Koby's post. I still think Waste is stronger because it punishes loose keeps against decks like BUG and RUG. Mishra's trades with a threshed Mongoose? The red splash might be better than both, though.
"Never argue with a fool, people might not know the difference."
*edit deleted
Regarding the wasteland/Mishra's dicussion: I'm currently working on the same question. I really like both cards. Wasteland is usually a bad card in this deck, but it offers free wins and handles problematic lands (since maverick's "downfall" I think this is less relevant now). Mishra is excellent in most other cases.
This needs some testing I guess. Back in the days of Mental Misstep Mishra's were a core part of this deck, but this was substituted with a splash for black.
@Wizard:
RE: Lingering Souls
Souls was helping me win against aggro and control, but seemed bad against combo. I don't play Souls because I kept finding Souls in my hand when I was losing to combo, so I moved it to the sideboard to make more room for Spell Pierce and Spell Snare in the main deck. Siding into Dark Confidant just seemed sweet, and incredibly potent in the control games. Dark Confidant also seems good against the attrition based decks that are popping up (Jund, BUG). The deck has access to a lot of removal (Swords, Path, EE, Vindicate, Supreme Verdict, Perish), so I think creature matches are still winnable without Souls. I also shifted my main deck to more early game prevention (5 discard, 2 spell pierce, 2 spell snare) This is a recent development that I wanted to test... and also because I love playing Bobs. :)
RE: Board sweepers
I run a maindeck Engineered Explosives, which can act like a sweeper. I was running a main deck Supreme Verdict, but it was only a 1x so you couldn't really rely on seeing it. I moved it to the sideboard to make room for more early game prevention, because I felt like Spell Snare or Spell Pierce can help prevent being overrun but also improve a wide variety of match ups. I also went up to the 4th Snapcaster and 2nd Vendilion Clique--giving me more dudes to flashback Swords with and to carry a Jitte.
RE: Meta call
I play on modo throughout the week, and at a local store about once a week. At the local store I regularly see Elves, Goblins, UW Control, Reanimator, Enchantress, MUD, Burn, Blue Zoo, BG Explorer, Maverick...
Thanks for the info. Makes sense. Your meta has substantially more creature-based decks than mine. Bob is some good. May give it a try, but wary of cards like Batterskull and FOW without SDT.
"Never argue with a fool, people might not know the difference."
I run a singleton SDT and am testing out Bob as well. I may add another Top and try out a 2 top/3 Bob split.
I usually go -3 FOW, +3 Dark Confidant, because FOW tends to be bad against control decks. This leaves 3 Jace and 1 Batterskull I can flip -- but you usually pull Batterskull from the deck with one of four SFM's. The only match up I've left both FOW and Dark Confidant in for was Storm (ANT) combo.
Let me know if you get around to trying him. :)
I like this strategy a lot. I'll try this out as well and see which works out better.
So I played my blade list at my local today. I have played two Jund lists and lost to both. I think this matchup is not very good for us.
I'm looking for ways to improve the matchup, any suggestions?
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