Um, more thoughtseizes? Theres not much more room in the board but really thoughtseizes or REBs are probably your best bet. Both those combo decks, pack a ton of disruption when they are ready to go off (discard or free counterspells) so stuff like mindbreak trap is deceptive. Also, trap is only good against storm decks, where thoughtseize or REB helps against most combo decks.
Basically, you need to slow them down just enough to hit them with a card that's going to make it near impossible for them to win. REBs on cantrips and Discard on their business is the best way to do this. You follow it up with a game breaker like slaughter games naming their win con.
If you looking for other game breaking cards, another option is Ichneumon Druid, hes only going to slow them down for a short period of time though, and it is possible to win through him. But he at least turns your GSZ into possible hate. Nether Void's another option, but I wouldn't recommend it without a way to tutor for it like rector has.
Storm combo decks are always going to be tough match ups. We are not a chalice/trisphere deck, or a blue deck, so there's only so much we can do.
*Just note that TES will be much harder than ANT. Slaughter games, doesnt hurt TES very much while ANT literally can not win if you take their 1 tendrils in their 75. Druid usually only gives you a turn against TES cause they will decay him, or wish for removal. Neither deck can beat a Nether void easily, but TES will find a way if you dont put a clock on them.
Hi all I have been a Nic-Fit player for a while now and have been a semi regular poster on MTGsalvation, but the the thread just sorta died so I was pointed here. I was recently testing Birthing Pod and found it leaving a lot to be desired so I dropped it. Here is the current list I am running.
Creatures:
2x Academy Rector
1x Armada Wurm
2x Eternal Witness
1x Deathrite Shaman
1x Gaddock Teeg
1x Scavenging Ooze
1x Sigarda, Host of Herons
1x Sun Titan
1x Thragtusk
4x Veteran Explorer
Enchantments:
1x Faith's Fetters
3x Pernicious Deed
1x Recurring Nightmare
1x Phyrexian Arena
Instants/Sorceries:
4x Cabal Therapy
4x Green Sun's Zenith
2x Hymn to Tourach
1x Innocent Blood
2x Swords to Plowshares
1x Diabolic Intent
Planeswalkers:
2x Liliana of the Veil
1x Garruk Relentless
Artifacts:
2x Sensei's Divining Top
Land:
3x Forest
2x Plains
3x Swamp
1x Bayou
1x Savannah
1x Scrubland
2x Phyrexian Tower
4x Verdant Catacombs
2x Marsh Flats
2x Misty Rainforest (sadly no G/W fetches atm)
Sideboard:
3x Mindbreak Trap
2x Leyline of Sanctity
2x Oblivion Ring
2x Memoricide
2x Leyline of the Void
1x Damnation
2x Choke
1x Nether Void
I really like the list though I'm still messing with some numbers and so far I'm loving Armada Wurm. Some of my choices may seem odd, but my meta has some troublesome combo decks I try to answer MB. Ooze, DRS,Innocent Blood and Swords are for dealing with Reanimator since Iona white used to hurt. Gaddock stops both the storm decks, and hymn is just to help more here as well as my sideboard is almost entirely to hate on combo decks it seems.
I would love some help here, and I hope to be a beneficial part to the Nic-Fit community here.
Originally Posted by Karang029
Well come to The Source Karang.
Your list actually looks really solid for a ground assualt based BWG approach. I think a few improvements could be made though.
You definitely want 3 tops, this deck relies on top alot and that card is something we want to see every single game. Your list has a lot of cards that need BB, WW, and GG. I would suggest lowering that count. Maybe cutting the hymns and lilys for target discard like thoughtseize or even duress. I think you could up the DRS count by 1. Also, abrupt Decay is really good, and helps with some of our problem matchups. Maybe put that in the hymn/lily spots? or cut the bloods/stps for 2-3 of them, but I understand the meta call for those removal cards.
While your SB does the job, theres a lot I would personally change about it. You should put 3 Carpet of flowers in your SB. That card is the nuts against blue decks. I would cut the leylines of the void for exitpates and mindbreak traps for discard or something too. Humility is also a great card to have if you see reanimator (or S&T) a lot.
Im really not sold on mindbreak trap as a good plan against storm. Look at my post above yours for some storm SB suggestions.
You should split memorcide and cranial extraction 1-1. I know it sounds crazy, but I have actually had a UW Miracles player surgical my memocide, cause they know if I cast another one they have no way to win. He was pretty tilted when he saw I had "2" of the card in my deck, just with different names.
Your manabase is little rough, but Im guessing that is a budget issue. Id suggest getting an 2nd bayou first, even before the fetches. GU fetches arent too bad.
I ideally, it would look like this:
3x Bayou
2x Savannah
1x Scrubland
3x Windswept Heath
3x Verdant Catacombs
3x Forest
2x Swamp
3x Plains
2x Phyrexian Tower
Gonna /barn what Architect said.
The 3rd Top is critical. I would also for sure add at least 1x Sakura-Tribe Elder. That thing has saved my bacon in many circumstances, and while Deathrite -can- ramp you too, it's an inefficient source that requires too much to go right. Ie, if you're vs RIP Miracles. You don't want to Explorer, because they'll just use the basics to combo you out. You can't for sure Deathrite, because you probably don't have a graveyard. Tribe-Elder is the best no-nonsense ramp source there is. It doesn't need Therapy, it doesn't need a Graveyard, and it gets a non-wasteland-able target.
Also /barn on splitting Cranial/Memoricide. That's come up a nonzero number of times for me, too, and I've been encouraging everyone to split them up since.
I fervently hate Teeg in this deck. I recognize it as being solid combo hate in game 1, but it's a dead card vs most fair decks, and postboard I would rather have Nether Void/Cranials/etc. Like yeah, it's fine vs Miracles if you can stick it -- but you can't protect it, and it locks you from your Green Suns, Garruk Relentless, and Fetters -- all three of which are -highly- relevant against Miracles. I'd rather have Relentless than Teeg in a non-Mother of Runes deck any day of the week.
I also don't like the Hymns and the Liliana, but I can certainly understand the need for them given what you're said about the meta.
I'd consider adding a Trostani as a Green Sun target. It gives you a bye vs Burn, which is certain to become relevant again soon given Burn's favorable matchup vs BUG and Junk, and it also gives you a solid engine whereby you can spit out Armada Wurm tokens and Garruk tokens to fight the attrition decks, like Jund.
/barn what Architect said about the mana base.
As for the board, I mean, you gotta do what you gotta do for your local. For beyond that, I don't like it very much -- but from what you've said locally, it sounds fine. Carpet of Flowers is amazing, though, even against the combo decks, because it lets you get to Cranial/Nether Void sooner, at which point you can just lock them out. Extirpate would not be a bad idea, as well, since then you can just take away some of their stupid little cards and make their life miserable while you get your mana up. Also, Extirpate lets you do some nifty tricks vs Brainstorm-based combo decks. Like if you Therapy High Tide, and they Brainstorm in response (hiding their best 2), then you can Extirpate the Brainstorm after Therapy resolves, essentially getting a free Hymn while making their deck worse.
Based on what I know about the stack and therapy in that situation Iirc you don't name something until it resolves. So if they brainstorm in response to it, and then you extirpate it before therapy resolves you get to look at there hand and shuffle away whatever they brainstormed so your cabal just became a better thoughtseize lol. I intended to put them in just haven't received my order in the mail yet.
I dont think you can do that since at the point (after extirpate resolves) only therapy is on the stack and you have already passed priorety for that. However, Im not as knowledgeable about magic rulings as I probably should be so if I am wrong, awesome.
Also, yes extirpate is great. I run 2-3 of them in rector and most of other nic variants even. Its great against combo and miracles, two of our tougher matches. Against combo thought it is trickier to get value out of it. You have to catch them off guard with their brainstorms and shuffle away their goodies, of if you can do something like thoughtseize a time spiral and then extirpate it, effectively slaughter gamesing them. Its obviously also good against dredge/reanimator.
I'm not 100% on this, but I believe it would work as such:
You cast Cabal Therapy,
[priority passes]
Your opponent casts Brainstorm,
[priority passes]
Brainstorm resolves.
[Remove Brainstorm from the stack]
Cabal Therapy is resolving,
[priority passes (ie if they wanted to Brainstorm, then Spell Pierce it)]
Cabal Therapy resolves, naming.
I don't THINK that you get priority back once your Therapy is back to the focus of the stack. They still have the opportunity to respond to the Therapy after Brainstorm resolves, but I don't think that the active player does.
-----EDIT-----
I just checked with a judge friend of mine, and he said that we WOULD get priority before our own Therapy resolved, so theoretically this play actually goes work. I'm going to check with a level 2 as well just to confirm beyond a shadow of a doubt (as this would be embarrassing to get wrong), but I trust my friend's opinion and theoretically this is actually a thing.
That's an amazingly devastating play, then.
Yeah that works. After a spell or ability have resolved, both players get priority again.
Right! The Cabal Therapy should only resolve after BOTH players have passed priority once the Brainstorm has finished resolving. So technically, once the Brainstorm has finished resolving we would get priority again to do what ever we wanted. If we choose not to do anything, then the player who played the Brainstorm actually gets an opportunity to add something else to the stack. If they do not, then the Cabal Therapy resolves since BOTH players passed priority.
But we could Extirpate that Brainstorm upon it's resolution, before our Cabal Therapy resolves.
I'm not a judge, but I'm pretty sure that's how it goes down.
Currently Playing:
Dredge / Hive Mind / Belcher / Sneak-Show
HayWire Motorsports - Tacoma, Washington
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That is exactly how it goes down.Right! The Cabal Therapy should only resolve after BOTH players have passed priority once the Brainstorm has finished resolving. So technically, once the Brainstorm has finished resolving we would get priority again to do what ever we wanted. If we choose not to do anything, then the player who played the Brainstorm actually gets an opportunity to add something else to the stack. If they do not, then the Cabal Therapy resolves since BOTH players passed priority.
But we could Extirpate that Brainstorm upon it's resolution, before our Cabal Therapy resolves.
I'm not a judge, but I'm pretty sure that's how it goes down.
AP = Active Player
NAP = Non-Active Player
AP plays Therapy.
AP passes priority.
NAP plays Brainstorm.
NAP passes priority. (Whoever plays a spell or ability gets priority after, though the tournament shortcut is that it is passed unless explicitly held.)
AP passes priority.
Brainstorm resolves.
AP gets priority again.
AP casts Extirpate.
AP passes priority.
NAP passes priority.
Extirpate resolves.
AP gets priority.
AP passes priority.
NAP passes priority.
Cabal Therapy resolves.
Basically every time something goes off the stack the whole priority dance starts again with AP having priority and thus an opportunity to play spells and/or abilities.
This is also a good time to point out Caleb's Cabal Therapy primer (especially note the answer to problem 3).
Last edited by slikwilly; 01-10-2013 at 07:10 PM. Reason: added primer link
As an occasional Dredge player, that one right there is super important to remember!!!!!
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Dredge / Hive Mind / Belcher / Sneak-Show
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Slikwilly explained that right in his sequence summary, but I think it should read "whoever puts a spell or ability on the stack gets priority afterwards." After actually playing a spell or ability the active player gets priority again - correct me if I am wrong.
Wow so therapy and extirpate are even better together than I thought. This is great!
You are correct, however -
That's where you must make it clear that you are NOT passing priority after playing your spell.
Currently Playing:
Dredge / Hive Mind / Belcher / Sneak-Show
HayWire Motorsports - Tacoma, Washington
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From the comprehensive rules:
116.3c If a player has priority when he or she casts a spell, activates an ability, or takes a special action, that player receives priority afterward.
So if you play something you get priority even if you are the NAP. But priority will go to AP after something resolves even if it was played by the NAP.
Nice tutor for scapewish/punishing nic fit. Any thoughts?
Currently Playing: Scapefit , Shardless BUG, Team America,
Terribad. The at-random out of three different dudes is just terribad.
People complain bout Cavern being a badly designed card: this is just terrible even without considering power level. Wording is clunky, the randomness denies non redundancy in building, and E. Call and Intuition already exist in other colors.
If you find one, rip it to shreds >:(
/rant
I can also confirm that it works via my level 2 judge friend, although it seems that's unnecessary now. That's definitely a very powerful trick to remember.
because of its strange wording the creatures are shuffled in unless you search for exactly three different creatures. there aren't any tricks like with gifts ungiven, so it's just a strictly worse eladamri's call.
I believe this is a clear thought. I obviously did not think it over well enough before posting.
@Fropper thx for the input.
Currently Playing: Scapefit , Shardless BUG, Team America,
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