The wording is really clunky on that card. It doesn't seem to explicitly tell you what to do in the event that you get 3 creature cards with the same name. The "Shuffle the rest into your library" sentence implies that something happened to one or more of them. Weird wording.
To be frank, I think this card is more often misread than Book Burning lol.
Anyhow, holy crap! Korean stuff is expensive! No wonder why it's so pimp to have Korean Vets. (referring to Smokestack on SCG: 10 for english, 100 for korean)
EDIT: Also, sorry for off-topic posting so much
I want to talk about the 2-drop creatures. Most people play Sakura-Tribe Elder but I think that is wrong. I think Sylvan Ranger is a better basic land searcher for Nic Fit. Elder is great against Dredge because it kills their bridges but Dredge is basically unplayable in the Deathrite Shaman meta so that is no big concern.
The acceleration of Tribe Elder is not very relevant either. Think of it: if you GSZ for a land searcher it is unlikely that you make your regular land drop and it is very likely that you sacrifice Elder at the opponent's EoT because you need the land. In that most common case Sylvan Ranger actually gives you one additional Mana (because the land drop is untapped) that you can use for a Cabal Therapy or a Top activation and it also keeps a 1/1 in play.
And this 1/1 is not irrelevant at all. Sylvan Ranger has the big advantage that you can sacrifice it to Cabal Therapy (or Phyrexian Tower / Recurring Nightmare / opponent's Liliana) and still get the land which Tribe Elder can't. I think a 1/1 split between Sylvan Ranger and Wall of Blossoms is the right way to make sure that a GSZ for 3 will be good.
I can imagine a split between Ranger and Tribe Elder, but I don't think you replace Tribe Elder completely. At least not in Rector. Elder does a few things: 1) as you say, Dredge. 2) Great for blocking Batterskull and Jitte. 3) Ensures you have a Recurring Nightmare target. All of these have been important to me in matches.
In a new list I've been working up I've got Elders and Walls. It's not running Nightmare though, so I can definitely see swapping the Elder for Ranger.
Actually, because people are relying on their MD shamans and skimping on GY hate, dredge is pretty well positioned right now. As a dredge player I can tell you that both regular dredge and manaless dredge aren't scared by deathrite at all.Originally Posted by Tao
/barn. Dredge just placed very highly at GP Denver, right smack in the middle of Deathrite Shaman territory. Dredge doesn't give two shits about the Deathrite Shaman decks.
I dunno. I've often thought that I would like a third 2-mana guy, either a Wall of Blossoms or a Viridian Emissary. I see no reason for Sylvan Ranger over Emissary, I must confess. If you want something that is a body that can be sacced while still getting a land, IMO Emissary > Ranger. That being said, Sakura-Tribe has just been astonishingly good for me. There has only ever been one or two circumstances where I wished I could both sac to Therapy -and- get the land, and those have been very few and far between. It's entirely possible that I'm just biased in favor of it, but I'm almost never sad to draw one. They're an on-demand shuffle for Top, ensure a guy in the 'yard for Nightmare (which was a huge problem for me until I put Tribe-Elders in), fog+rampant growth, stop Jitte from gaining counters, BSkull from gaining life, pops Bridges, beats for 1 sometimes, is convenient to bring back with Sun Titan, and arguably most importantly: it ramps you game one, no matter what they do.
If I'm up against Miracles, say, the LAST thing I want to do is set off a Veteran. If I'm up against RIP Miracles, specifically, Viridian Emissary won't work, and neither will Veteran Explorer (though, we still don't want to set it off). Sakura-Tribe gives 0 fucks about either of those situations. He ramps us with no questions asked. It doesn't matter what they've done to us or how they've affected the board state. Explorer is....I wouldn't say unreliable, per se, but there are situations where we either don't want it (we don't want our opponents to have it), or we can't use it. Tribe-Elder is invaluable in combating those situations. Because, at the end of the day, if Nic Fit doesn't hit ANY ramp at all, it's gonna be a slowwwwwwwwww game. We can still pull them out sometimes, but the difference between Nic Fit with ramp and Nic Fit without ramp is like night and day. I'd rather err on the side of a little much than too little.
Has anyone tried Ground Seal in the Rector build? I'm having issues vs BUG control with Deathrite. BUG Delver is pretty easy, just like RUG but with discard instead of burn.
I guess it would be okay as a one-of in the SB. I'd rather Rector into Rip, you're already in white, right? Seems like it would help better verses the stuff you'd be wanting Ground Seal for, wouldn't it?
Edit - Wouldn't you be better off with more discard verses BUG control? Seems like I'd rather strip their hand of control to pave the way for the end game stuff which they can't really hang with.
Currently Playing:
Dredge / Hive Mind / Belcher / Sneak-Show
HayWire Motorsports - Tacoma, Washington
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Well sticking my kindle in my pocket has decided to post on my behalf, so here's my two cents.
BUG is a non threat as long as we don't let DRS stick or let a Tombstalker live. I'd actually use RiP or Leyline over both Seal and discard as both cripple Tombstalker.
I feel like the only reason I would run Ground Seal is in a reanimator heavy meta and then RIP is just better.
After watching Arianrhod develop his deck for the last few months from double dragon to Nic Fit I have been interested in this deck and brought myself to read about the last 80 pages or so I have a suggestion. More so just a question actually. What kind of a matchup does this deck (rector build) have against Shops? I know we have Moat and thats extremely helpful but against Steel Hellkite and metamorph making multiples of it or even them just locking us down with Tangle Wire and/or Smokestack has anyone considered Caustic Wasps as a GSZ target from the board to help control the early game. It's defiantely even usable as a 1-of since its searchable so it won't take up alot of space but can definately wreak havoc if brought in early enough. Thoughts?
@Ground Seal: If your problem is DR Shaman and you get a Rector activation you can just Deed or Fetters or Recycle.
@Rest in Piece: That card wrecks US. It shuts down Witness, Therapy and Explorer (and depending on your version Rec. Nightmare, Rector, Punishing Fire, Volrath's Stronghold).
I don't think it is worth it to play any Yard hate in Enchantment form. They are all bad.
@Metalworker matchup: In general decks that play Eldrazis, Griselbrand or Sundering Titan are a bad matchup for Nic Fit because they go bigger. Metalworker is a bad matchup too, but at least the deck is extremely bad and unreliable compared to Sneak and Tell and you have an actual chance of wrecking them with Therapy on their fatties and Deed on their board before they get their win condition out. Steel Hellkite is also a joke compared to other giant monsters and taking 2 or 3 hits of him isn't game ending and it gives you time to find your solutions. Caustic Wasps is just a very bad card, don't play it.
Sylvan Ranger: The Jitte/Batterskull case is not important. You can either handle them or not. Two counters or four life most likely won't affect the outcome of the game. I stand by my point that Sylvan Ranger is much better than Tribe Elder atm.
I agree that Rest in Peace wrecks us, but Ground Seal doesn't do much better. I personally don't run either since my GY hate comes in the form of extirpate anyways, and if needed leyline of the void(a meh solution).
As for Metalworker the matchup is difficult, but unlike our ramp there ramp dies to deed. Monolith, Metalworkers, Keys, Mox, and Dynamos are all easily exploded if need be.
Architect and I split the top eight at mythic today. Both with scapewish.
Played a gauntlet yesterday with 5 players using the Scapewish. I tried using the build of Arianrhod but I replaced 2 basic lands with Verdant Catacombs. I had times I wanted a T1 Therapy but the lands were just not black... below are my match-ups
2-0 vs Berserk Stompy
1-2 vs Dredge
2-1 vs Punishing Maverick
2-0 vs Junk
0-2 vs TES (but gave me the win so I can have the packs)
G1, my life is already at 31 and he just played 16 spells to kill me.
With this, I am having problems with Combo. Any suggestions on how to fight Dredge, TES and the like? Am I missing something? Thanks for the help :D
Mini report time from Mythic Games monthly Legacy Tourney
List - Almost the same as Arianrhod, just extirpates in the board, 2 fetches, and no hellion or 25th land for 2 decays.
4 Veteran Explorer
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Green Sun’s Zenith
3 Huntmaster of the Fells
2 Thragtusk
1 Primeval Titan
2 Abrupt Decay
4 Burning Wish
3 Sensei’s Diving Top
3 Pernicious Deed
1 Eternal Witness
2 Scapeshift
2 Sakura-Tribe Elder
1 Wood Elves
4 Taiga
3 Badlands
2 Verdant Catacombs
3 Forest
2 Swamp
4 Mountain
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Volrath’s Stronghold
2 Bayou
2 Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle
Sideboard:
3 Pyroblast
1 Reanimate
2 Slaughter Games
1 Scapewish
1 Pyroclasm
1 Virtue’s Ruin
1 Damnation
1 Innocent Blood
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Thoughtseize
2 Extirpate
R1: Joe with GB Beserk Nit Fit -Win
Joe is usually "that goblins guy" who just always beats everyone with goblins and I had no idea he was on veteran exploreres
G1: We both had 6 lands on turn 2. He played creatures with his lands, I blew them up and played scapeshift with mine.
G2: He was cut off of black, but had the nuts if he hit it. I kept an explore alive on my side till the turn I could crack it and win.
1-0
R2: Phillup with MUD stompy (not forgemaster) - Loss
I knew he was playing MUD, I just did my best. Its a match I cant reallly win and I can live with that.
G1: I know hes on mud and hes on the play, but I mull to 6 and keep a hand with 2 lands, explorer, therapy, top and business, praying he doesnt turn 1 chalice. He doesnt t1 chalice, he t1's a trinosphere (which he later tells me he just moved to the MD). I dont see a single land till he kills me a lodestone golem and wurmcoil.
G2: No early chalices or trispheres. tribe elder DOES WORK against his wurmcoil. I keep him at <18 life sacking 2 elders, and the woodelves+phyrexian tower, to prevent the lifelinking wurm form healing his ancient tomb damage. I hit 7 lands and scapeshift.
G3: He gets an early chalice at 1, but also drops worker, i have to decay the worker, only to see him drop another another one. His next 5 or so turns go Lodestone x2, wurmcoil x2, batterskull x2. OUCH. I manage somehow to get up to like 13 lands and not lose because I see all 3 huntmasters and a thrag. Hes at 53 by the time it is down to my last turn alive. I draw the burning wish, but can only do 48 damage too him since I have 3 of my 11 mountains in play.
1-1
R3: Nick with TES - WIN
G1: I get the litteral nuts. Vet, Bayou, fetch, Phyrexian Tower, huntmaster, wish, GSZ. He duress and takes the wish I think. I draw into scapeshift and win turn 3 while he assembles his hand with ponders and brainstorms.
G2: I keep a hand that is something like therapy, GSZ, wish, scapeshift, top, land, land. He discards my top. I therapy and hit a LED and see hand full of cantrips and discard. He duresses my GSZ, and then i topdeck 2 in a row to get myself 2 explorers. He drops a bob and I wish>IB it cause I know he has just land+petal in his hand at that point. I pass, he drops petal and passes but EOT I decay his petal (he had no white producing lands) so he cant orim's chant me. I win on my turn with scapeshift.
2-1 and PUMPED that I out combo'd TES.
R4: Gabe with Mono black The Gate
Gabe usually plays BUG Nic Fit, but I know he was slinging bitterblossems and bobs today. He knew my deck well and said he had zero hope of winning.
G1: I think I overwhelmed him with huntmasters but I dont really remember.
G2: He gets like double bob, double blossom online, after we both strip eachothers hands and kill eachothers dudes. He wins that top deck war. I also didnt hit green mana that game and was banking on my top to find it (which he discarded). My mistake.
G4: I think I win like turn 4-5 with angry mountains
R5: Evan with Reanimator
G1: He has to mull to like 5 and keeps a hand full of cantrips and discard. I think he makes me discard a wish and then a turn 3 Huntmaster gets me there with a wish for thoughtseize as backup.
G2: He has to mull to 4 :/ and I keep 6 with therapy but zero other hate. After we stip eachothers hands with discard I win with angry mountains again. I wish I had drawn a burning wish instead of the scapeshift though, cause I REALLY wanted to reanimate the griselbrand that he binned.
R6: Timur with Jund
Me and Timur both know that my angry mountains usually beat Jund, we both want to be in the top 8, and both want the other to be in the top 8 so we ID.
I ended with swiss in 5th place and the top 8 was 2 Scapewish (me and Arianrhod), 2 Jund, TES (not the guy I played), Reanimtor, Mav, Team Italia
If we had played it out Im pretty sure the TES play would have taken it, while Arianrhod, me or the reanimator guy would fill out the top 4, but most of us wanted to leave and eat so we split the prizes for 145$ in credit each.
I was really happy with the whole deck. I dont think I would change anything. I liked the mana base, the abrupt decays and the board. I might tweak it slightly depending on the meta but overall it was awesome. Im not totally sold on blitz hellion, but I dont face lily/jace decks either so I really dont have an opinion yet.
The next casual LGS tourny I go to I think Im going to play GB control heavy list with NO-Pro, just for kicks. Also, I still want to play a really threat heavy, jund list with Godo+Batterskull as the "big finisher" and no wishes or p-fires. Ill let you guys no if they are anything more than cute.
Hey there. I was testing and I came up with some nice tech for ScapeWish: Bonfire of the Dammed. This lovely card is crazy in a ramp deck. Casting it for x=8 in the late game (especially against control) is quite possible. I actually burned out a miracle player with Bonfire for x=8 and then the next turn for the win. It combines the utility of a sweeper with the power of another buisness spell, plus can be used in a pinch to kill Explorer if need be. I've been playing the following list
Creatures:14
4 Veteran Explorer
2 Sakura-Tribe Elder
1 Eternal Witness
1 Wood Elves
2 Huntmaster of the Fells
1 Blitz Hellion
2 Thragtusk
1 Primeval Titan
Spells:22
3 Bonfire of the Damned
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Green Sun's Zenith
3 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Burning Wish
2 Pernicious Deed
2 Scapeshift
Lands:24
2 Badlands
3 Bayou
4 Forest
4 Mountain
1 Phyrexian Tower
2 Stomping Ground
1 Swamp
4 Taiga
2 Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle
1 Volrath's Stronghold
Sideboard:15
3 Extirpate
3 Red Elemental Blast
3 Thoughtseize
1 Innocent Blood
1 Pyroclasm
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Damnation
1 Scapeshift
1 Tsunami
I have been slowly drifting away from a tutor board. I started off with tutor targets and 4 REB. Then I added Thoughtseize and Extirpate...
You should look back like 10ish pages, we had alot of discussion about bonfire. It used to be an auto-include, but with meta shift from decks like mav which play a bunch of little creatures, to everyone playing GBx with goyfs alot of people have cut it for other cards. Its still not bad in the right meta. If theres a lot of tribal, dead guy, mav, etc it could be really good. But its not too good against goyf based decks (doesnt kill them soon enough) or miracles cause jace is the only thing in their deck that you can really hit with hit, and if they have jace out, they probably brainstormed into counterspells, so you usually need a few threats to get through to him, not one big costing spell. I personally cut it for abrupt decay, cause I often just need to kill a turn 2/3 goyf/kotr so I can buy enough time to drop threats. Decay also kills counterbalance, equipment, etc. Decay has been amazing.
Thought it was time for me to add some to this thread.
I played a tourney today with ScapeWish. I was lazy and played Arianrhod -Volraths stronghold +2 abrupt decay.
So back to 61 cards ;)
30 players attended so 5 rounds with top 8.
R1 vs tendrils combo
G1 he kills me before i get anything going.
G2 i slaughter games his burning wishes since i know the list relies heavily on them. His remaining wincon is 1 empty the warrens. He manages to product 5milion of those little buggers. I flip the top card: pernicious deed. Game 3
G3 i get a good hand with veteran and therapy and the possibility of turn 4 scapeshift with a little luck. He plays land, ponder. I play therapy on brainstorm and hit seeing chrome mox, ritual, land, infernal tutor and something i cant remember. I plan on taking the tutor on my turn 2 but my opponent rips LED and kills me in his 2nd turn :/
R2 GB pile
Some casual player with a casual deck i murder 2x with scapeshift.
R3 grixis aggrocontrol
G1 i loose to delver + jitte
G2 my list plays pyroclasm over firespout. I have exactly enough mana after being wastelanded to burning wish for pyroclasm. I kill 2 delvers and a dark confidant. Lateron i get my mana goning and kill with scapeshift
G3 i ramp like crazy and kill with scapeshift.
R4 teammate with UW miracles
G1 i wish for slaughter games and take his jace. He plays only 2 next to a singleton elspeth (due to card availability) next turn i zenith for eternal witness ans return the slaughter games. I take his entreats next turn. I start drawig lots of lands and need to kill the elspeth with 2 valakut triggers not to die. Over the course of next turn i rip enough lands to remove his threats. I run into scapeshift and do almost infi damage.
G2 he gets jace, elspeth and clique. I need to drop the blitz helion i have in hand but it gets countered by counterbalance (reveals force of will). Im pressed for mana and cant rape my opponents hand with the 3 therapies i find
Eventually i loose to elspeth +3 on clique in extra turns.
R5 BR pile.
I get lucky and am paired against another pile. I ge to school him by scapeshifting for 36 and 42.
I get into top 8 at 8th seed with my 3-1-1 record.
I get paired against another teammate and the brother of my r4 opponent. He plays tempo as usualy and is not happy being paired against nicfit (his fear for the deck is unbelievable lol)
The deck descides to give in and i get manaflooed like crazy in game 1.
Game 2 i can stall a bit but eventually loose to 2 5/6 goyfs.
I get 5 boosters with jank in them.
The deck played great all day and eventhough i didnt get to play an abrupt decay they seem descent for now. The blitz helion is fun for now and would have been great in taking out a planeswalker against miracles but i do miss the 2nd eternal witness.
Last edited by XdeckX; 01-14-2013 at 08:30 AM.
anyone tried running kessig wolf run + inkmoth nexus as targets for primeval titan in punishing fire decks?
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