[Deck] Burn

[Darkenslight]

Destroying Lands is simply not the thing to focus on in burn.
Imagine this: Your opponent wins the dice roll, drops a Underground Sea (e.g.), your turn.
You drop a Wasteland, trigger it to destroy your opponents Underground Sea.
Now you and your opponent both have no lands in play. Literally nothing happened. You did not even cast a burn spell and will not be able to cast a 2cc spell or two 1cc spells next turn.

It also could be the case that your opponent drops the Land and drops a creature with it. Destroying the land after that feels kinda pointless.

The second round will look like this:
Your Opponent: "Hey, now I know that hes playing Wastelands in his burn deck, Im gonna play around 'em by dropping basic lands"
You: "Fuck..."

Aachie

I hear Ghost Quarter is good in a RUG/BUG-heavy metagame. After all, it reads, "Tap, sacrifice this: destroy target land." Plus it has additional hate potential against most of the other decks. However, it still suffers from that same problem as Waste.

[Aachie]

Heyho Community,
I have another question about my Burn Decks.
I'm not here to discuss the content of my main- or sideboard with you this time.
I playtested both lists a lot and I'm satisfied with it and how it works.
The thing I wanna discuss with you is the usage of the sideboard.
I really have some problems to decide which cards to switch, when I have to board.
Any clues?

http://www.mtgdeckbuilder.net/Decks/ViewDeck/330983

http://www.mtgdeckbuilder.net/Decks/ViewDeck/356222

Aachie

[Kazadoom]

against Aggro I'd nearly always side our my flame rifts and Vortex to side in some bridges. ( I dont play Vexing so it does not hinder me that much)
In some matchups price of progress is bad and can be sided out.

Most of the time I get rid of the least efficient card (really depends on the matchup) and side in cards that either hinder my opponent (Pillars, Bridge, Smash)

[DragoFireheart]

Personally, I think Devil is absolute trash. I hate giving my opponent options.

- You're not giving your opponent an option.

[namrufmot]

Is burn with creatures that much better than without creatures? I haven't played burn since before the Goblin and Devil came out. Can someone explain the best way to use them when going first and then late game? Both of those can be dead draws late game and both are targets for removal. I used to love playing burn because all the STP and such were 100% useless when playing all burn spells and no creatures.

Also, why has Flamebreak fallen out of many decklists? It used to be a BOMB for me back in the day. Almost every deck today plays creatures that are killed by it.

[DragoFireheart]

Is burn with creatures that much better than without creatures? I haven't played burn since before the Goblin and Devil came out. Can someone explain the best way to use them when going first and then late game? Both of those can be dead draws late game and both are targets for removal. I used to love playing burn because all the STP and such were 100% useless when playing all burn spells and no creatures.

Also, why has Flamebreak fallen out of many decklists? It used to be a BOMB for me back in the day. Almost every deck today plays creatures that are killed by it.

Goblin Guide and Vexing Devil: you just turn them sideways or, if the opponent has a high amount of life, Vexing Devil is just a Lava Spike +1. There isn't a critical mass of burn spells to avoid using creatures as of now. It's why people still run creatures in burn.

Flamebreak sees less use because:

1. Most creatures are just too big.
2. Delver Flies once he transforms.

Sulfuric Vortex is a much better CMC 3 spell since it gives us constant damage and stop life gain from things like Batterskull.

[namrufmot]

Goblin Guide and Vexing Devil: you just turn them sideways or, if the opponent has a high amount of life, Vexing Devil is just a Lava Spike +1. There isn't a critical mass of burn spells to avoid using creatures as of now. It's why people still run creatures in burn.

Flamebreak sees less use because:

1. Most creatures are just too big.
2. Delver Flies once he transforms.

Sulfuric Vortex is a much better CMC 3 spell since it gives us constant damage and stop life gain from things like Batterskull.

Thanks...if we still lack optimal burn spells, why don't we use the 0cc baubles that draw us more cards? Think it used to becalled 42 card burn...

[Bruno Mars]

hey I'm playing this build right now:

2 Grim Lavamancer
4 Goblin Guide
3 Hellspark Elemental
4 Fireblast
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Price of Progress
4 Chain Lightning
4 Flame Rift
4 Rift Bolt
4 Lava Spike
3 Sulfuric Vorterx
19 Mountain
1 Barbarian Ring

I do not like the Barbarian Rings to because of Lavamancer and Fireblast. Thats why i play just one! What do you think about Hellspark Elemental? Are 3 okay? What do you think about Keldon Marauders vs Hellspark Elemental?

thanks greets

[JPettie]

hey I'm playing this build right now:

2 Grim Lavamancer
4 Goblin Guide
3 Hellspark Elemental
4 Fireblast
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Price of Progress
4 Chain Lightning
4 Flame Rift
4 Rift Bolt
4 Lava Spike
3 Sulfuric Vorterx
19 Mountain
1 Barbarian Ring

I do not like the Barbarian Rings to because of Lavamancer and Fireblast. Thats why i play just one! What do you think about Hellspark Elemental? Are 3 okay? What do you think about Keldon Marauders vs Hellspark Elemental?

thanks greets

I don't agree with playing Grim Lavamancers in a deck with Hellspark Elemental, Barbarian Ring, and no Fetchlands. It seems counterproductive, the Grim Lavamancers will be starved most times, especially early on and not be as potent. I prefer Hellspark Elemental over Keldon Marauders just for the fact if you have to discard or draw a land late into the game, you can still unearth the Hellspark for a play. Keldon comes down and does atleast two, for a cost of two, I think it depends on your meta. If your meta is heavy on creatures, you could run Keldon over Hellspark if you feel like you will be getting blocked a lot. Another course of action for a creature heavy meta is just to drop all creatures but grims/goblin guides, and getting some fetch lands to feed the grim and use it as a removal spell for creatures, and on top of that you can sideboard into searing blaze because of the fetchlands. I also think that 21 lands over 20 would work a lot better if you are running 3 sulfuric vortex mainboard, the barbarian ring should be in a burn deck with no grims and probably no hellsparks in my opinion.

[Shax]

The new spoiled card Skullcrack will def. find it's way into my Burn decks from here on out. It is good enough to replace Sulfuric Vortex. Vortex from another look is usually better since it is a enchantment, but being able to just hold the anti-life gain spell in hand and then response with it gives Burn another trick that will win them many games.

[FLESHGRINDER]

Yeah, I'm excited about Skullcrack too.

Here's my list; it got me second place in a ~20 person tournament

Main Deck:

4 Goblin Guide
4 Hellspark Elemental
2 Keldon Marauders

4 Rift Bolt
4 Price of Progress
4 Flame Rift
4 Fireblast
4 Lava Spike
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Chain Lightning
3 Sensei's Divining Top

17 Mountain
2 Barbarian Ring

Side Board:

3 Flamebreak
3 Smash to Smithereens
4 Tormod's Crypt
3 Red Elemental Blast
2 Pyroblast

-I run the Flamebreaks because last time I played, there where at least 4 RUG/Delver decks, and I hated losing to Nimble Mongoose.
-I might switch the 5 REBs out for something else, because someone earlier stated the blue decks always have a backup counter anyways.
-The Sensei's Divining Tops are in because I was trying out Thunderous Wrath, but miracle cards are shit without Brainstorm, and I kept SDT. It lets me smooth out my draws so I don't get mountain after mountain, and I can set up the cards so I draw two bolts on a turn to speed up the game and win faster.

Is Vexing Devil worth it? I'm personally on the side of not using because it gives my opponents options, but I'm willing to try it because I can see the value in it.

I would like to suggest everyone tries out Sensei's Divining Top, though. It really shined through for me and won me a couple games

Other than that, I would love to hear anyone's suggestions for how I can improve my deck

[Gedaco]

I play burn since I remember I'm a kiddo and burn's mission is to kill the opponent as soon as possible.

I can't deny that in some situations, other non-convencional 'burn cards' can help winning games and improve certain matchups but from my experience, burn will ever be burn and the bests lists, run the 'normal' cards.


About Skullcrack...
Yeah it's nice but is it better then the consistent damage from Sulfuric Vortex? Is it better then a card that is more difficult to answer? My answer is NO and I don't have more to say :)

[DragoFireheart]

Skullcrack will never replace Sulfuric Vortex.

And burn decks don't use baubles because they can cause awkward starting hands, slow us down, and are just terrible in general.

[movingtonewao]

does anyone here think ash zealot is good? first strike and haste means none of the x/1 and x/2s will be able to trade, and the ability could be relevant occasionally.

[iamfrightenedtoo]

I think its worth a look. We run any number of cards like Hellspark Elemental, and Keldon Mauraders. which are the same casting cost, and one more power and toughness more, but neither of their abilities are even close to Ash Zealot's.

try it at a local tournament a few times.

[Snap_Keep]

Hellspark has always been pretty bad.

At least now with Deathrite becoming so popular people will figure this out for themselves.

[CabalTherapy]

Hellspark has always been pretty bad.

Seriously...?


Since there are not so many good burn spells, Hellspark has been always a good choice.
The format isn't super-fast nowadays and due to that Hellspark is a solid card.


And what is more important:
"Boros Burn" following the burn strategy and not the typical Boros sligh one.


Something like that:

4 Goblin Guide
4 Vexing Devil
3 Grim Lavamancer
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Chain Lightning
4 Lava Spike
4 Rift Bolt
4 Boros Charm
3 Fireblast
3 Price of Progress
3 Flame Rift

20 lands consisting of fetchlands, Plateau, Mountain and maybe one Plains.
I think that a whitesplash could be viable because of the new Charm and of course SB Disenchants and stuff.
Lighting Helix is a great card too but it serves as a Incinerate here, so no Helix.

[LeoCop 90]

the new boros charm is really good, an instant flame rift that affects only the opponent. Moreover, white splash offers also Steppe Lynx , that can easily replace vexing devil.... the only problem is that we have to run a lot of fetches ( 10 or more ) together with the lynx to ensure that it is almost always an attacking 4/5.
Obviously the sideboard with a white splash become better, and offers enlightened tutor to have more versatility.

[JPettie]

the new boros charm is really good, an instant flame rift that affects only the opponent. Moreover, white splash offers also Steppe Lynx , that can easily replace vexing devil.... the only problem is that we have to run a lot of fetches ( 10 or more ) together with the lynx to ensure that it is almost always an attacking 4/5.
Obviously the sideboard with a white splash become better, and offers enlightened tutor to have more versatility.

The problem with adding white to the burn deck is we are now open to wasteland and our deck is already running less land than most decks. We would have to go the dual land route because it wouldn't make sense to fetch a plains on turn two and not be able to cast a lightning bolt on turn 3 to finish them off because we are sitting on a plains that only works with one card in our deck. On top of that, what would we even enlightened tutor for? The cost of playing enlightened tutor in our deck messes with our efficiency of just being a burn deck. We want to dodge wastelands and make them wasteland their own lands to our price of progress instant cast, and be mono red like a boss so they can't do anything to our lands, along with not being land screwed for playing two colors.

[troopatroop]

4 Delver of Secrets
4 Goblin Guide
3 Grim Lavamancer
4 Vexing Devil
3 Snapcaster Mage

4 Lightning Bolt
3 Chain Lightning
2 Forked Bolt
3 Price of Progress
2 Fireblast
4 Brainstorm
2 Ponder
3 Daze
2 Sulfuric Vortex

3 Volcanic Island
1 Island
4 Mountain
4 Scalding Tarn
3 Wooded Foothills
2 Misty Rainforest


I think burn without delver isn't really trying, and blue offers alot more than just brainstorm/delver. Daze is wonderful, and Snapcaster -> Price is quite good against the field atm.

does anyone have any thoughts about opening up to blue? What does Mono Red really GIVE you these days? It's actually a fairly cheap splash...