[Deck] Nic Fit (GBx Explorer Zenith Control)

[sderenatore]

Teeg is a serious problem as the list stands now, but I'm worried more about getting the deck functional first, and then solving that little twat. Decay is only relevant in that it stops Witness shenanigans for a few turns. Like if you go to bounce Witness with Jace (to take another turn, or something), then they can hit the Witness with Decay in response, which is obnoxious.

I do think that the list would like the 3rd Witness, but I'm not sure what to cut for it at this point. Too much needs tested.

Just a couple of questions about the Chronofit list (which looks really sexy to me):

1) why don't you play Ancestral Vision instead of Harmonize? I understand that we dont care too much about mana cost, but imprinting harmonize on panoptic gifts your opponent a Time Walk or even two if you tap 5 for Panoptic, pass, untap and imprint Harmonize.

2) I think i didn't really understand why brainstorm is bad with mirror, actually sounds like a really nice play to me in case we have nothing else to imprint and we use it to dig our library down, so i would like to hear your counterpoints. I think you had the chance to test a little bit both options while i am just assuming that BS could be good, also i would probably play it alongside with Top.

[Arianrhod]

Just a couple of questions about the Chronofit list (which looks really sexy to me):

1) why don't you play Ancestral Vision instead of Harmonize? I understand that we dont care too much about mana cost, but imprinting harmonize on panoptic gifts your opponent a Time Walk or even two if you tap 5 for Panoptic, pass, untap and imprint Harmonize.

2) I think i didn't really understand why brainstorm is bad with mirror, actually sounds like a really nice play to me in case we have nothing else to imprint and we use it to dig our library down, so i would like to hear your counterpoints. I think you had the chance to test a little bit both options while i am just assuming that BS could be good, also i would probably play it alongside with Top.

1) I had NOOOOOOO idea that Visions worked with Mirror. That is fucking broken, and needs to be added to the deck ASAP.

2) Uh. I had reasons. All of which are now meaningless, because see 1). Whatever space Brainstorm would have had, Visions gets instead.

[sderenatore]

1) I had NOOOOOOO idea that Visions worked with Mirror. That is fucking broken, and needs to be added to the deck ASAP.

2) Uh. I had reasons. All of which are now meaningless, because see 1). Whatever space Brainstorm would have had, Visions gets instead.

Ahah, glad I helped with point 1. I am testing right now online the list with it! (due to lack of cards).

[Viridia]

Right, Visions, why hadnt we thought of that before? :P
So that'll definately be in, probably as 2 or 3 off, considering all the deck does is stall, stall and stall more, which makes it good even without the Mirror :P

[Undomian]

....Yeah that might have been a little preemptive lol. Explores I have no idea about long-term. Mirrors and Warps will be there regardless, though.

Although I guess that if this turns out to be competitive, Time Warp probably would eventually get replaced by Capture of Xinghou or whatever, since that can't be misdirected whereas Warp can. But that's like $600 and many, many months of tuning and tweaking in the future.

Or Temporal Manipulation as a 'budget' solution.

[Siiig]

Sup everyone! I was actually planning to pretend I wasn't at that Jupiter, but my second half (matches 5-6-7) were enjoyable, so here I am.

It was awesome to get to meet some other Nic Fit players, I don't think I actually met Architect. I felt odd introducing myself as Siiig so anyone curious my real name is Devin. My head was turning all day when people would yell "Kevin!"

I don't actually need to do a report, most of my matches were bad.plays, or bad.therapy, but I'll do it because I'm bored. And Kevin left the Thragtusk cliffhanger there.

R1 -- This match brought to you by mortons salt, when it rains it pours -- vs U/W Helm Of Obedience Combo.

Sit down for the first match of the day feeling good. Guy across from me is talking like he knows what's up, but looks very young (I learned that day not to underestimate young looking people).

Game one, I open *insert decent hand here* and play on. Start with a Bayou -> Explorer, which I get a very thoughtful stare and a "hold on a second" gesture. I get to see Force to... something? Game proceeds, I ramp up mana. Sitting on 7 lands (one being a tower) with a hand of Burning Wish, Cabal Therapy, and a Sakura-Tribe Elder. I rip Therapy, and blind name FoW, and see a hand of "Not Counter-Spell, Not Counter-Spell". He has a Helm of Obedience down. I knew I could rip the Elder for an 8 land combo, but something in the back of my head said "Don't be greedy, you might fuck yourself". I rip Wish -> Shift for 18 with him at 17. He response with "Helm for 1"...

Ok...

Yeah...

There's 4 life gainers in my deck (only running 2 huntys)...

What are the chances...

Won't happen...

Go to flip the top card, and Thragtusk literally jumps off the top of my deck, gives me the finger, and all of a sudden my shift is non-lethal.

Durdle back and forth into a RIP combo.

Game two, just sillyness into I think Jace.

R2 -- What could possibly make this day worse? -- vs 12 Post

He played 12 post, I don't know the deck very well and he miss therapy hard. I did manage to Slaughtergames away Emrakul. Dunno if that was the right call or not.

R3 -- Do do do -- U/W Counter-Top? Something like that.

This is the round I met Kevin! Sup d00d. That's all that's really relevant here. I kept a hand of duel, duel, tower, he slammed back to basics, I saw 2 mountains in the next 9 turns that he killed me with clique. This match was the second time my poor Tusk got taken. I land tusk to start up some beat down and give myself some extra time, he lands vedalken shackles and I get a very appreciated "awww" from Kevin.

R4 -- Show and What? -- Jap Sneaky Show

Remember this one decently. He opens Island -> Petal -> Ponder -> Pass. So at this point I know he's on some kind of bullshit. I assume Combo, rip therapy, brainstorm in response and I think I named Infernal Tutor? He shows me Show and tell + Grizzlebrand. I think I got the tell on the flash back, then he goes sneak attack, Grizzle B, Draw 7, emrakul. That's what happened game 2 as well.

Grizzlebrand is good.

R5 -- Turnabout -- Lil Asian Kid w/ Maverick

When your 0/4 for the day, you don't ask how the day is going. You just know.

Anyway, Maverick is Maverick for Scapeshift. It's almost a Bye just not quite. Have a fun game, take G1 easy, G2 he stalls me out with Ethersworn into Teeg, and I just don't see removal. G3 went much the same way, but I found my removal... I actually deeded 4 times (sup eternal witness). After a nice 7 damage bonfire off the top pass, I managed to blow a friend of mine who was watching away. I had Witness down, and he was at 6. Slam GSZ@5, and down goes blitzhellion, WOOOOOO!!! Worth every round I sided him out. Kich867 was blown away.

R6 -- Hey I took a game! /day -- Bye.

This sucked, a friend of mine dropped which put me on a Bye. w/e

R7 -- The best game I played all day -- C. J. on White Elves

I say this is the best game I played all day not because I played well, but because it was truly enjoyable. C.J. is a good guy who was there to play magic. Same as me! .

Game one was a nicely paced back and forth, he went infinite into Emrakul. I scooped and flipped my top card and smiled at the Scapeshift that really wanted to come out.

Game two was awkward. I open Explorer / Forest / Taiga / Burning wish (other cards). This put me in wish territory turn 2 with no way of sacing explorer (all my sac outlets are black!) At this point I noticed Kich sitting down the table from me, so I call out "Kich! If I lose this it's your fault" I had 2 tormod's crypt in my board because Virtue's Ruin is expensive, and because Kich didn't grab me a Pyroclasm and I missed the morning buys. So anyway, not important, I believe I went angry mountain mode and wiped C.J.s elfs out of the way.

Game three ended in Blitz Hellion. Best card in the deck.


So on the day, I've learned I just need more experience with the deck. I've found I go as hard as possible at the Scapeshift combo, and don't look towards hunty enough. After the main day I played a few rounds against Zombardment, and my brand new 3rd hunty wanted to show off his dub step dance (flipping back and forth). Most importantly, two people in my group nailed top 8. Blayne on Hypergenesis ends up top in swiss and 5th on the day, then Rich on Esper Blade goes 2nd in swiss and splits top 4 =)

[Arianrhod]

It was awesome to get to meet some other Nic Fit players, I don't think I actually met Architect. I felt odd introducing myself as Siiig so anyone curious my real name is Devin. My head was turning all day when people would yell "Kevin!"

Yeah. I know probably 2/3 of the people at Jupiter, and some of them have a tendency of being rather loud at times. So, you can blame me for that lol.

Game three ended in Blitz Hellion. Best card in the deck.

/Facepalm, lol.

And yeah. I didn't know you didn't have a Pyroclasm. That makes a -huge- difference. It's not just a cheap mini-sweeper for Empty tokens, Elves, Goblins, and various other assorted dorks -- it's also a Wish-able way to "sacrifice" Veteran Explorer when you're screwed on black. Definitely get a hold of one of those!

Also, your opponent from round 1 is known to me -- and he's a bit older than he looks (or sounds). It's actually kind of weird.

Slaughter Gamesing Emrakul is probably correct. The other two are huge annoyances, but they don't end the game in a single swing (which basically has haste, for all intents and purposes) like Emrakul does, and they don't the 12post player take infinite turns like Emrakul does. 12-post falls into the category of decks which are easy to make unable to win -- you take out Emrakul, then you take out Ulamog, then Kozi-wozzy, then Primeval Titan, and suddenly they can't win the game anymore. 4 Slaughter Games is a lot (and needs a Witness) to achieve, but it's doable. Emrakul definitely goes first, though. You made the right call there.

[Siiig]

Slaughter Gamesing Emrakul is probably correct. The other two are huge annoyances, but they don't end the game in a single swing (which basically has haste, for all intents and purposes) like Emrakul does, and they don't the 12post player take infinite turns like Emrakul does. 12-post falls into the category of decks which are easy to make unable to win -- you take out Emrakul, then you take out Ulamog, then Kozi-wozzy, then Primeval Titan, and suddenly they can't win the game anymore. 4 Slaughter Games is a lot (and needs a Witness) to achieve, but it's doable. Emrakul definitely goes first, though. You made the right call there.

I was joking (in a surprisingly doable way) about putting a singleton plains and a sideboard Armageddon. Would be a funny use of a single board slot to take down (I think?) 12 post. If you can nail it before they land primetime at least.

[Arianrhod]

I was joking (in a surprisingly doable way) about putting a singleton plains and a sideboard Armageddon. Would be a funny use of a single board slot to take down (I think?) 12 post. If you can nail it before they land primetime at least.

The problem there is that Armageddon hurts Scapewish (and Nic Fit in general) just as much as those that it's trying to Armagedd (I'm inventing a verb).

If you REALLY want something like that, run Ruination. I've always stayed away from it because I don't want to hit my own mana base -- Tsunami and Sowing Salt have always been enough for me. But Ruination IS a (painful) option.

[Siiig]

The problem there is that Armageddon hurts Scapewish (and Nic Fit in general) just as much as those that it's trying to Armagedd (I'm inventing a verb).

If you REALLY want something like that, run Ruination. I've always stayed away from it because I don't want to hit my own mana base -- Tsunami and Sowing Salt have always been enough for me. But Ruination IS a (painful) option.

Heh, that could be fun. I'm also going to be putting in Reverent Silence as a 2 mana wishable answer to Leyline of Sanctity. This is actually reverting BACK to this rather than a new addition, as my list had originally run silence.

[Star|Scream]

What is the prevalence of grip and disenchant in the current meta vs. panoptic mirror? Decay doesn't hit it, but do other decks pack artifact hate that could cause a 2 for 1 against us?

Also if an opponent grips the mirror in response to the upkeep trigger, can you still play the spell?

[sderenatore]

Ok i gave it a try, and the deck is a beast (at least a beast of fashion and coolness). A lot of its power comes from the whatafuquplayin?-effect, but, after several matches against RUG Tempo, I can adfirm its a great matchup for it: it was really hard to lose against them, even after a pretty gross mistake and some amzing topdecks (I cabal therapy away stifle in order to blow up during his turn my Deed, he topdecks stifle - both I was too superficial and he was lucky) I often found my way to the victory. Also Panoctic Mirror + Visions is supreme, but visions on its own has made a very good job.

By the way, this is the list i am playing:

4 Veteran Explorer
2 Sakura-Tribe Elder
1 Wood Elves
2 Eternal Witness
1 Thragtusk
4 Cabal Therapy
3 Green Sun's Zenith
2 Damnation
1 Maelstrom Pulse
3 Capture of Jingzhou
1 Cryptic Command
3 Ancestral Vision
3 Pernicious Deed
2 Sensei's Divining Top
2 Panoptic Mirror
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Creeping Tar Pit
1 Phyrexian Tower
3 Tropical Island
2 Bayou
1 Underground Sea
3 Forest
3 Island
2 Swamp
3 Misty Rainforest
3 Verdant Catacombs
1 Oracle of Mul Daya

The list is pretty similar to Arianrhod's, the changes are -3 Explore +3 Ancestral Vision and -1 Recurring nightmare +1 GSZ and they made a huge difference to me.
Just decided to keep on working on this list!
P.s. I don't suggest to cut Mul Daya without pondering about it, she won me 2 games otherwise lost and helped in others. Paired with top/Jace is just too good.
Good night guys! (At least here in Europe!)

[Star|Scream]

Ok i gave it a try, and the deck is a beast (at least a beast of fashion and coolness). A lot of its power comes from the whatafuquplayin?-effect, but, after several matches against RUG Tempo, I can adfirm its a great matchup for it: it was really hard to lose against them, even after a pretty gross mistake and some amzing topdecks (I cabal therapy away stifle in order to blow up during his turn my Deed, he topdecks stifle - both I was too superficial and he was lucky) I often found my way to the victory. Also Panoctic Mirror + Visions is supreme, but visions on its own has made a very good job.

By the way, this is the list i am playing:

4 Veteran Explorer
2 Sakura-Tribe Elder
1 Wood Elves
2 Eternal Witness
1 Thragtusk
4 Cabal Therapy
3 Green Sun's Zenith
2 Damnation
1 Maelstrom Pulse
3 Capture of Jingzhou
1 Cryptic Command
3 Ancestral Vision
3 Pernicious Deed
2 Sensei's Divining Top
2 Panoptic Mirror
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Creeping Tar Pit
1 Phyrexian Tower
3 Tropical Island
2 Bayou
1 Underground Sea
3 Forest
3 Island
2 Swamp
3 Misty Rainforest
3 Verdant Catacombs
1 Oracle of Mul Daya

The list is pretty similar to Arianrhod's, the changes are -3 Explore +3 Ancestral Vision and -1 Recurring nightmare +1 GSZ and they made a huge difference to me.
Just decided to keep on working on this list!
P.s. I don't suggest to cut Mul Daya without pondering about it, she won me 2 games otherwise lost and helped in others. Paired with top/Jace is just too good.
Good night guys! (At least here in Europe!)

This is such a troll list. Bear in mind this is only on MWS, but so far I've beaten Jund, Junk, Affinity, and Maverick. Panoptic + Visions is just crazy, and once they realize the time warp loop they player lost.

[Greenpoe]

Have you guys tried Force in these Panoptic lists, or at least Counterspell, at least in the SB? Force can be hardcast in Nic Fit easier than in most decks which is nice. Or give Pact of Negation a shot.

[Arianrhod]

Just a quick update --

Did a little testing with Chrono tonight. Tops have been disappointing because of their nonbo with Visions, Wood Elves was garbage, and I found myself wanting another dude to Zenith for a fair bit, so I put in a 2nd Thragtusk. This is where I'm at right now:

4 Veteran Explorer
2 Sakura-Tribe Elder
1 Coiling Oracle
3 Eternal Witness
1 Oracle of Mul Daya
2 Thragtusk

4 Cabal Therapy
3 Green Sun's Zenith
2 Damnation
1 Maelstrom Pulse
3 Time Warp
4 Ancestral Visions

1 Cryptic Command

3 Pernicious Deed

2 Panoptic Mirror

3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor

1 Creeping Tar Pit
1 Phyrexian Tower
3 Tropical Island
2 Bayou
1 Underground Sea
3 Forest
3 Island
2 Swamp
3 Misty Rainforest
3 Verdant Catacombs

SB: 1 Cranial Extraction
SB: 1 Memoricide
SB: 2 Panoptic Mirror
SB: 2 Thoughtseize
SB: 4 Negate
SB: 2 Extirpate
SB: 1 Trygon Predator
SB: 2 Blue Elemental Blast


I find myself wanting a mana sink a fair bit, so Nightmare may well come back in. Visions has been nothing short of stellar, both when imprinted and used regularly. Blue source -> Visions, pass turn, Therapy + Explorer + Flashback is an amazing sequence.

I'm also still finding myself hating to draw a Green Sun's Zenith. Oracle is nifty, and has a strong interaction with Jace, but I'm not sure she's worth it at this point.

There is very, very definitely something here, though. The shell is obviously still in dire need of testing and tuning, but after resolving a copied Visions off of a Mirror, I'm not going to let this go until I've made it work, dammit. That shit is WAYYYYYY too busted not to make work.

[nottz]

Just a quick update --

Did a little testing with Chrono tonight. Tops have been disappointing because of their nonbo with Visions, Wood Elves was garbage, and I found myself wanting another dude to Zenith for a fair bit, so I put in a 2nd Thragtusk. This is where I'm at right now:

4 Veteran Explorer
2 Sakura-Tribe Elder
1 Coiling Oracle
3 Eternal Witness
1 Oracle of Mul Daya
2 Thragtusk

4 Cabal Therapy
3 Green Sun's Zenith
2 Damnation
1 Maelstrom Pulse
3 Time Warp
4 Ancestral Visions

1 Cryptic Command

3 Pernicious Deed

2 Panoptic Mirror

3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor

1 Creeping Tar Pit
1 Phyrexian Tower
3 Tropical Island
2 Bayou
1 Underground Sea
3 Forest
3 Island
2 Swamp
3 Misty Rainforest
3 Verdant Catacombs

SB: 1 Cranial Extraction
SB: 1 Memoricide
SB: 2 Panoptic Mirror
SB: 2 Thoughtseize
SB: 4 Negate
SB: 2 Extirpate
SB: 1 Trygon Predator
SB: 2 Blue Elemental Blast


I find myself wanting a mana sink a fair bit, so Nightmare may well come back in. Visions has been nothing short of stellar, both when imprinted and used regularly. Blue source -> Visions, pass turn, Therapy + Explorer + Flashback is an amazing sequence.

I'm also still finding myself hating to draw a Green Sun's Zenith. Oracle is nifty, and has a strong interaction with Jace, but I'm not sure she's worth it at this point.

There is very, very definitely something here, though. The shell is obviously still in dire need of testing and tuning, but after resolving a copied Visions off of a Mirror, I'm not going to let this go until I've made it work, dammit. That shit is WAYYYYYY too busted not to make work.

I've got to agree with the fact that this deck needs to be perfected. It's been awesome when I've played with it.

Top doesn't seem very good now that we have visions to run threw a bunch of cards but I'm not sure if we should completely drop it from the list. It helps smooth out the draws and the deck just feels better with it.

I also really like oracle in the list and in my opinion has earned her spot. She ramps so hard and has huge interactions with a ton of cards in the deck.

Anyone think about Shardless Agent at all? Cascading into some of our value things is pretty sweet and into visions is just awesome. We might be too big for running it, but it might be worth a try.

[Star|Scream]

Not sure i agree regarding cutting top. i think we still need some dig for finding the combo pieces. Maybe brainstorm?

I agree, though, that there is something here.

[LazyEyes]

For ChronoFit: Do we even need black? I understand it is needed for sacrificing explorer but removing it altogether would make the deck more stable. Green can use prey upon or crop rotation + phyrexian tower to pop explorer? If we need wipe there is disk and all is dust idk. volrath's stronghold + phyrexian tower + eternal witness + time warp we can also have an alternate win combo.

[Cire_dk]

Sorry to interrupt the discussion about the new Nic Fit list. This is what makes Nic fit great as well, it is so versatile, you never get bored with it.

Question: against a meta with stone/esper blade would Punishing Fit be better than Scapeshift?

[XdeckX]

For ChronoFit: Do we even need black? I understand it is needed for sacrificing explorer but removing it altogether would make the deck more stable. Green can use prey upon or crop rotation + phyrexian tower to pop explorer? If we need wipe there is disk and all is dust idk. volrath's stronghold + phyrexian tower + eternal witness + time warp we can also have an alternate win combo.

I'd say Yes we need black. If only for Cabal Therapy. Part of what makes NicFit even remotely competative is Cabal Therapy. It's basically discard and ramp when combined with Explorer. You dont really have to dig deep into black to make Therapy playable, especially with the used of fetchlands but I for one would never cut black all together even when there are alterantive sacoutlets available for the Explorer. The discard is just too good to pass up if you ask me.