[Deck] Nic Fit (GBx Explorer Zenith Control)

[Blastoderm]

How is MUD a problem? Last time I played against it I 2-0ed it in rounds and 2-1ed it in the semis. I was playing swords to plowshares and natural order back then though...

[CRich3]

I really don't think MUD is a really big issue unless they get a fast Wurmcoil. By my main problem is Sundering Titan and Lodestone Golem. I can usually fight past the rest since they have no hate against us. But I need all my mana to do so.

I just want to say how awesome Rector Fit is. I was playing against dredge today and I got to kill Griselbrand with Deed lol.

[Woe_Bringer]

Thx for the pod response. I also dont see mud as an issue. My gf plays mono brown and i consitantly kust win. The only version thats annoying is the welder one. Even that isnt horriable.

[Arianrhod]

Depends on your version, their version, and their opening hand. A fast Metalworker (read, turn 1 or 2) can be a severe problem given most Nic Fits' lack of spot removal. PFire is an obvious exception, but the other versions all struggle with killing a Metalworker before it becomes active. Chalice@1 (which is really easy for them to drop t1) can cause enormous problems, because it stops our primary line of interaction while simultaneously cutting us off of "our metalworker." You can Zenith out Explorer, sure, but that takes an extra land drop -- and them not having played a Lodestone, for example. Forgemaster versions and Staff of Domination versions both represent swift combo finishes that we can't compete with and can't interact with -- to say nothing of their natural curve of 2-4-6, even in games without any acceleration other than native (Sol lands). This is ignoring the presence of Karn Liberated, which is one of the scariest bombs in the format (and something I've considered trying for a long time as a result of its ludicrous power level for 7 mana).

I mean, I've beaten MUD 2-0 in the past as well. It happens. If MUD fired on all cylinders 24/7/365, it would probably be banned, because it's ludicrously strong. The problem with it is that it is horrifically inconsistent. One of the times I beat 2-0, my opponent mulled to 4 both games, because he was either finding all mana or no mana. This was in the X-1 bracket at a GP, later on in the day -- the guy knew what he was doing, but it just didn't matter.

If we assume that both decks are operating roughly to spec, though, I view it as one of our most strongly negative matchups, something like 80/20 in their favor. Real-world, though, it's probably closer to like a 65-35 or 60-40 in MUD's favor, since they will certainly have games where they're just target practice.

[Siiig]

How is MUD a problem? Last time I played against it I 2-0ed it in rounds and 2-1ed it in the semis. I was playing swords to plowshares and natural order back then though...

MUD Might be a slightly bigger problem against the other versions of NicFit that aren't rector, but the speed that they can give you trouble is the problem (from what I've seen of other people playing the deck). I lucked out last Jupiter and got to hover over Kevin playing against MUD, since a friend was playing right next to him. A single pulverize in the board is obviously pretty sick, I was running Shattering Spree because it felt a bit more tech. With spree I can rip it 3-4 times and aim at batterskull + jitt twice each when I'm playing against stoneblade. Good luck countering that... asshole...

But against metalworker, I can see the lodestones being a big problem if they can land them.

[Cire_dk]

Shattering spree sounds like a good tutor target in scapewish. I will try it out as well since pulverise does damage my land count fairy badly.

[Siiig]

Shattering spree sounds like a good tutor target in scapewish. I will try it out as well since pulverise does damage my land count fairy badly.

The two are quite a bit different. If you need to maul their entire board, the only thing you want is Pulverize. Shattering spree just has a bit more flex (like I mentioned).

You shouldn't be worrying about your land if you feel like you need pulverize for the situation. It's probably kinda bad already.

[Arianrhod]

The two are quite a bit different. If you need to maul their entire board, the only thing you want is Pulverize. Shattering spree just has a bit more flex (like I mentioned).

You shouldn't be worrying about your land if you feel like you need pulverize for the situation. It's probably kinda bad already.

This.

MUD tends to go like....let's say, t1 Tomb, Grim Monolith, Metalworker. t2 activate Metalworker, reveal arbitrary brown cards, play....let's go Wurmcoil + Hellkite.

The only way you get out of that with Scapewish is if you go like t1 Taiga Explorer, t2 Badlands, Burning Wish -> Pulverize, cast Pulverize saccing both lands. That leaves them with an Ancient Tomb and two Wurmcoil tokens, which are fairly easily dealt with -- especially if you have an onboard Explorer.

Also@Siig, I didn't have Pulverize in my board at Jupiter, because it's too narrow of an option for a large field like Jupiter. Spree is a fine option, but not vs Metalworker. They spew out too much crap for you to effectively deal with with Spree. You run Spree for like Stoneblade and Deadguy, and accept that it has fringe utility vs Affinity and MUD (and some other, stranger options). They're different cards with different purposes.

You also have Seeds of Innocence as an option if you don't want to sacrifice lands, but it costs a literal ton of mana against that deck. By the time you Wish + resolve it, assuming there ISN'T a Lodestone in play, bad things will have already happened to your asshole.

[Siiig]

This.

MUD tends to go like....let's say, t1 Tomb, Grim Monolith, Metalworker. t2 activate Metalworker, reveal arbitrary brown cards, play....let's go Wurmcoil + Hellkite.

The only way you get out of that with Scapewish is if you go like t1 Taiga Explorer, t2 Badlands, Burning Wish -> Pulverize, cast Pulverize saccing both lands. That leaves them with an Ancient Tomb and two Wurmcoil tokens, which are fairly easily dealt with -- especially if you have an onboard Explorer.

Also@Siig, I didn't have Pulverize in my board at Jupiter, because it's too narrow of an option for a large field like Jupiter. Spree is a fine option, but not vs Metalworker. They spew out too much crap for you to effectively deal with with Spree. You run Spree for like Stoneblade and Deadguy, and accept that it has fringe utility vs Affinity and MUD (and some other, stranger options). They're different cards with different purposes.

You also have Seeds of Innocence as an option if you don't want to sacrifice lands, but it costs a literal ton of mana against that deck. By the time you Wish + resolve it, assuming there ISN'T a Lodestone in play, bad things will have already happened to your asshole.

Yup, I actually began my scapewish experience running seeds of innocence. Spree just takes it for me for the flexibility.

Kevin, how do you feel about running extirpate in the side for scapeshift up at Jupiter? It seems like a pretty good way to deal increase the decks potency vs combo.

[Arianrhod]

Yup, I actually began my scapewish experience running seeds of innocence. Spree just takes it for me for the flexibility.

Kevin, how do you feel about running extirpate in the side for scapeshift up at Jupiter? It seems like a pretty good way to deal increase the decks potency vs combo.

The question would be what you cut for it. REB is still one of the best cards in the format, and a defining reason to go red with Nic Fit in the first place. I guess you could remove the pair of Slaughter Games, leaving only the one-of for a Wish target, but that seems poor since you're removing one anti-combo card for another, and not gaining anything net. I guess Extirpate is better vs fast combo while still maintaining utility vs slow combo, whereas Games is better vs slow combo and grinding control decks like Miracles or Thopters.

If you really want Extirpate, you probably pick the two wishboard options that you favor least -- or maybe trim one Wish option and 1 REB (going to 2 boardable Games, 2 Extirpate, 2 REB).

Probably the Sowing Salt slot in the board from my sig is what would come out -- but then you're a bit more opened up to 12post and to the mirror match. If you're okay with that, then I'd probably shave that slot and one REB for a pair of Extirpates.

[Cire_dk]

Question regarding scapewish sideboard. I am aware that 15 spots is not much to work with but I have been trying to fit carpet of flowers in. Would 2 of them be sufficient or might I as well leave it in that case. I often noted I want them against blue decks because more decks tend to use basics nowadays.

Any suggestions?

[Arianrhod]

Question regarding scapewish sideboard. I am aware that 15 spots is not much to work with but I have been trying to fit carpet of flowers in. Would 2 of them be sufficient or might I as well leave it in that case. I often noted I want them against blue decks because more decks tend to use basics nowadays.

Any suggestions?

The problem with Carpet in Scapewish is that it does actual nothing for you. Scapewish is designed to work with lands in play -- its combo kill, for example, is completely reliant on that concept. Carpet just generates mana -- it doesn't put lands into play for you. In place of Carpet for Scapewish, I'd consider something like Elvish Pioneer or even just more Sakura Tribe-Elders. More 1-sided ramp. Due to the presence of REB, in particular, I'm often less afraid of setting off Explorers against basic-heavy blue decks with Scapewish. If they drop Jace, we have a sufficient number of outs -- between Therapies, REBs, BW->Pulse, board presence via Huntmaster, GSZ->Blitz Hellion (if you're still on that plan), just straight up killing it with active Valakut via either mini-shift or Prime Time....etc. Jace is the scariest thing that basic-heavy blue control decks can do to Nic Fit off of Explorer mana, and Scapewish is Honey Badger. It don' give a fuck.

[Siiig]

The problem with Carpet in Scapewish is that it does actual nothing for you. Scapewish is designed to work with lands in play -- its combo kill, for example, is completely reliant on that concept. Carpet just generates mana -- it doesn't put lands into play for you.

Leme see if I can do this right...

/barn I've considered it a few times, but flat land grabbers is just better.

For my extirpate thing, I would probably drop... maybe 1 SG / 1 REB? That would open 2 slots. I have Reverent Silence in my board for layline, Perish over Virtue's ($$/I just don't have one). I could actually pull out the silence for Jupiter this weekend, afaik my friend Blayne (the person who top8'ed with hyper) will not be present, and that slot is dedicated to him. I must have something else jank in there, because I also do not own a thoughtseize. I'll have to see if I can even find Seize's.

--

So on a different note, has anyone ever pursued doing a scapeshift focused version of scapeshift? Had this idea a while ago. Dropping out our aggressive creatures for... maybe more discard / lands like Boseijou (something I've considered throwing in anyway), another scapeshift (would bring our main board count to 7 with wishes), Explore also comes to mind, though I don't know how baller that would be.

[Woe_Bringer]

@Siiig, The problem with dropping the guys in favor of a more combo theme is you lose one of the decks best strengths and thats being able to go to a good r/g aggro game if the opponent trys to single out the combo kill. Being more combo if not straight.combo mskes it much eaiser to hate out. When Surrvival was still legal(misd those days) i played the welder version, Dave Prive and i got talking and i poimted out that my clock was much faster than his. He poised a simple question..."what is the deck without welder?" Without welder the deck was.pretty much fucked. He also.said that if they singled out SOTF his version couldjust go to good r/g beats. The same premise applies here.

[Siiig]

@Siiig, The problem with dropping the guys in favor of a more combo theme is you lose one of the decks best strengths and thats being able to go to a good r/g aggro game if the opponent trys to single out the combo kill. Being more combo if not straight.combo mskes it much eaiser to hate out. When Surrvival was still legal(misd those days) i played the welder version, Dave Prive and i got talking and i poimted out that my clock was much faster than his. He poised a simple question..."what is the deck without welder?" Without welder the deck was.pretty much fucked. He also.said that if they singled out SOTF his version couldjust go to good r/g beats. The same premise applies here.

I feel like this point can be made about every faster combo deck. TES/ANT/High Tide/Hypergenesis/Belcher. I'm not saying it would be better, it will probably faster but less consistant, with a fall back of... well.. kill them with primetime/valakut. Which is already our 3rd win con.

[EpicLevelCommoner]

I don't know whether I'm leveling up or leveling down when I did this, but I've decided to cut 1 Forest for 1 Dryad Arbor and keeping Deathrite Shaman at 2.

Why? Well, after thinking about why I keep Deathrite Shaman in despite it dying so easily to Deed and Damnation, I also thought about why I cut Dryad Arbor in the first place. Sure, Deathrite has that special utility going on for it: being able to ramp, stall, and grind: that Arbor doesn't. But it still dies to Deed @1+ and Damnation, making it a one-shot effect more often than not. Then I realized something about Dig Fit: by the time you need to Damn or Deed, the board position is either not in your favor pre-wipe, not in their favor post-wipe, or both, so the event of losing these manadorks is not significant in the long run, but getting them out to use Damn/Deed is.

Plus, like I mentioned earlier, Arbor is amazing if you need a body for Therapy, Intent, Nightmare, Two Towers, etc., as both GSZ and Forest-Fetches can get it out for cheap.

[Siiig]

I don't know whether I'm leveling up or leveling down when I did this, but I've decided to cut 1 Forest for 1 Dryad Arbor and keeping Deathrite Shaman at 2.

Why? Well, after thinking about why I keep Deathrite Shaman in despite it dying so easily to Deed and Damnation, I also thought about why I cut Dryad Arbor in the first place. Sure, Deathrite has that special utility going on for it: being able to ramp, stall, and grind: that Arbor doesn't. But it still dies to Deed @1+ and Damnation, making it a one-shot effect more often than not. Then I realized something about Dig Fit: by the time you need to Damn or Deed, the board position is either not in your favor pre-wipe, not in their favor post-wipe, or both, so the event of losing these manadorks is not significant in the long run, but getting them out to use Damn/Deed is.

Plus, like I mentioned earlier, Arbor is amazing if you need a body for Therapy, Intent, Nightmare, Two Towers, etc., as both GSZ and Forest-Fetches can get it out for cheap.

"Arbor just isn't good" is something I've seen posted inside this thread a number of times. In light of that I'm seriously considering trying it just for my own testing.

[CRich3]

I have an idea I want to test but not sure I will get the chance before SCG cincy. So I wanted to know what y'all thought.

I made my NO package in my SB 3 NO and 2 Terastadon. I plan on siding out Sun Titan and Yosei but not sure what to do with the other 3 cards. But right now the only issue I can see all solving at the moment is 12 post. I can use Terastadon to keep them off it and if I do draw him it's not impossible to cast. But I may need to to Dryad Arbor back in. I cut it to have a 60 card deck and it has been working great. Only missed it once so far when my opponent countered my record and let recurring nightmare resolve. Any thoughts on this plan? I mean he can kill jace and Liliana still and it cuts back on graveyard reliability. Let me know what you think.

[EpicLevelCommoner]

I'm actually wondering if some sort of Scapewish-Rector version might have potential, as Blood Moon seems to obliterate Turbo Eldrazi and MUD if it sticks early on. Kinda wish there was some sort of "Magus of the Back to Basics" lol

EDIT: sorry, lost my train of thought. Terrastodon is a nice option for GSZ and NO, and can kill lands+Emrakul (SnT? GG) (EDIT2: It says noncreature, doesn't it? crap!)

Actually, that might not be a bad option at all for any kind of SnT deck.

[Woe_Bringer]

On the rector build why not Kokusho, the Evening Star, when i start recurring i usually do it 2-3 in a turn why tap down their permanents why you can go straight for the throat..any thoughts?