Still rockin' Knights here, with a full set of Wasteland. It is usually smaller now with Deathrites in the format, but getting a 5/5 for 3 that fetches Wastelands isn't bad at all. Knight also supports my late game grinds with Volrath's Stronghold/Eternal Witness.Originally Posted by Barbed Blightning
Brainstorm Realist
I close my eyes and sink within myself, relive the gift of precious memories, in need of a fix called innocence. - Chuck Shuldiner
Jumped in last nights Legacy Daily (about 12 hours from the time of this post for a better time explanation). Ended up going 1-2 drop.
Round 1 - Death and Taxes (2-1). turn 4 Sigarda ended up being the end if it. Game 2 I almost won from the Mull to 3 (first lands) but he finally built Mangara lock, two turns before I would've found another piece of removal. Game 3 wasn't ever out of reach from the overload on control.
Round 2 - Omnishow (1-2) - Girlfriend decided she wanted attention game 3 and forced a mis-click on a non-black land to fetch. Lost with 3 pieces of discard and 2 Tidehollow in hand.
Round 3 - UR Burn (1-2) - I got burned... Game 3 Double delver + Goblin Guide + Miracle burn spell = loss
Decided to play some games in the 2-man queue afterwards.
I don't remember the first 2... I know I won.
Belcher - 2-1 - Game 1 he made goblins, I played Shaman then pulse. Lili finished it off. Game 3 he couldn't go off on 1 and I murdered his hand.
Jund - 0-2 - Game 1 I kept Waste, Scrub, Bob, Sword and decided to go with it. Wasted his bayou into nothing and Thoughtseized on 2. Left him with Waste, Waste Hymn Hymn. Never saw another land. Game 2 I Thoughtseize and left him with library? Don't know why I did that, just did. Library's card selection is too much for me to keep up with.
Esper - (2-0) - Sigarda beat the tokens. Knight fetched Stronghold after Karakas got legend ruled.
Thresh - (2-1) - Tossed out spells to bait for counters (library, bob, etc). Bog kept the Goose in check (play your spell into the counter before you play the bog). Game 2 modo Glitched and I didn't get to sideboard. Game 3 I choked him and hid behind infinite removal into I found a top which found me a library, which found me the top I shuffled back in, which found me another library... It was about 4 turns with nothing until... Sigarda vs 4/5 Goyf. Opponent took the Moral victory by countering me Decay on Goyf.
Overall, I ran 2 Chokes and an Ooze in the open slots in the list. The chokes were fine, the Ooze still needs to go. I think I would've gotten the same effect from Squire as I did Ooze. Everything else did it's part.
I liked having the Tidehollow. The ability for them to get the card back wasn't the greatest but the only time that came into play was Omnishow to get rid of Thalia, Bob, Deathrite, and Sculler.
Loam never came to be useful. I had it a bunch of the time and just wanted it to be something else. ANYTHING ELSE. So now I guess I have 2 slots to adjust...
Fun Fact: Did you know Sigarda Flies? Turns out she can block Emrakul and let Lili finish the job.
Tinkering with some crafting theory. Here
Damion, if I recall correctly, you only run 20 lands right?
Edit - Nope, sorry that was Lavafrogg
Lavafrogg - I really like your list. I tried it tonight in my local store and it was as good as I expected it to be. I think it is reasonable not tu run Knight nowdays, Dark Confidant is better than ever and Lingering Souls are absolutely fantastic!
Instead of maindeck Life from the Loam I run Umazawa's Jitte because I feel it is more maindeck staff.
I guess you know this one: http://www.thecouncil.es/tcdecks/dec...2&iddeck=72047
That was my original inspiration but only when I saw your list with Libraries and Lilianas I knew it was exactly what I was looking for.
I went 3-0-1 tonigt beaitng Bant, Bant, Ant (all 2:0) and only 1-1 aginst Esper Blade. The only game I lost was to Clique eq. with Batterskull and EE+Academy Ruins lock. Deck seems really solid.
I played some nice games against Ant - he Ad Nauseam game 1 - with no mana in pool failed to find Lotus Petal (on 4 life), kept "ideal" 7 and passed. I play Cabal Therapy discarding Infernal Tutors... easily winnig from there.
Game 2 I mulliganed down to 5 - 2xBayou, Cabal Therapy, Surgical Extraction, Dark Confidant. I drew another Cabal Therapy, Thoughtseize, Shaman, Dark Confidant and Wasteland for one of his two lands. I made it. :)
Later tonight I playtested against Canadian ******** and I couldnt belive how good it is. If they do not kill our lands they almost can not win. (6-1)
What is your sideboard plan? I feel I want all the cards all the time (almost). Dont like basic Plains but it is probably neccessary evil. I guess we want 4 Wasteland all the time.
I think you're seriously underestimating protection from black in this format, besides protecting Mystic Enforcer from terrtiary removal like Vindicate and Maelstorm Pulse it effectively has protection from Lingering Souls and Baleful Strix, which means it's impossible for aggro-control to stop a Mystic Enforcer by chumping once it's online.
I don't think I'm underestimating it all that much, and I definitely don't think I'm 'seriously underestimating' it. I'm going to use Enforcer since it's the creature of interest.
Souls get to chump it (those tokens are white) until they can deal with it with a non-black or non-targeting removal (4 turns is a long time in legacy). I did forget about Strix. Strix is a card that's more fringe that anything (partially due to card availability). It's use, in the format, also doesn't compare to some of the 'removal' you'll see (overall, not in specific matches). Some examples: Swords to Plowshares, Submerge, Jace, The Mind Sculptor, Liliana of the Veil. Granted, you can hold off the Strix until you can deal with it using Enforcer.
Again, I'm not saying Enforcer's a bad idea. I'm saying I, personally, still prefer Hexproof, at cost of an additional mana, over Protection from Black.
Tinkering with some crafting theory. Here
Glad you liked the list, I am having a blast with it at the moment.
My board last week was:
3 Engineered Explosives
1 Abrupt Decay
1 Cabal Therapy
1 Lingering Souls
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Quasali Pridemage
1 Mystic Enforcer
3 Pithing Needle
3 Umezawa's Jitte
Against the top decks:
Miracles -1 lilliana -1 ooze -3 cabal therapy +1 souls +3 jittes +1 teeg
They play great through disruption and off of the top so discard is less effective. They can only swords a teeg and jitte really fucks up their day.
Esperblade -4 GSZ +1 Decay +1 Souls +1 Therapy +1 Jitte
It is a tough match and you just need to draw gas not zeniths. Bring in relevant stuff and a misers jitte
Storm -1 ooze -1 loam -3 decay +1 gaddock teeg +1 cabal therapy
Teeg, discard and beats...good luck
Show and Tell -1 ooze -1 loam -3 decay +1 gaddock teeg +1 cabal therapy +3 pithing needle(for griselbrand/sneak)(bring in pridemage if omniscience is in)
Matchup varies from list to list but you need your discard and your teeg, needle can be randomly good as can pridemage. Just disrupt, beat and pray.
Jund -3 thoughtseize +1 abrupt decay +1 lingering souls +1 Enforcer
Lingering souls is house against them as they have few ways to interact with the flyers, enforcer should be GG if he comes out threshed with souls on the board.
RUG -3 Lilliana -2 GSZ +3 EE +1 Abrupt Decay +1 Souls
Clog up the board and clear away flying delvers, shaman ftw.
Maverick -3 cabal therapy -3 thoughtseize +3 EE +3 jitte
EE away mom's and nobles when you lose the war of one drops, win the battle of the graveyards with shaman and ooze, jitte over the top
Elves -3 Lilliana -1 loam -3 GSZ +3 EE +1 decay +3 jitte
stop them from going off with discard and removal seal the deal with a jitte
Goblins -3 lilliana -3 cabal therapy -3 thoughtsieze +1 souls +3 jitte +1 decay +3 EE +1 pridemage.
Go super control with the endgame being an active jitte and a scoop.
NicFit -3 abrupt decay +1 pridemage, +1 souls, +1 Therapy
Just get ahead, therapy away their hand and lilliana lock them, goyf beats will end it.
BUG- -3 GSZ +1 Souls +1 Decay +1 Enforcer
Lilliana or library will grind them out if they are team america, they cannot kill an enforcer if they are control.
Needles rarely come in and are mainly for random or are switched out for crypts/orings.
"eggs... why'd it have to be eggs"
Ah you're right, I thought the Lingering Souls tokens were black, that's unfortunate.
I never said it was good against souls tokens, but I would never bring him in against a souls deck as those decks play swords. I have been bringing him in against Jund and BUG who both have no real way to remove a giant flyer, and he trumps tombstalker which the aggro BUG lists in my area are playing.
If i wanted to play a 5 mana creature, than Sigadra would be my go to bomb.
"eggs... why'd it have to be eggs"
lavagrogg - Thank you! My bit on the Enforce issue It is definetly amazing against Jund, but it is not so great against bug delver since they bring Submerge against us.
I like some of your plans - like Miracles (they can only kill us if game is too long and they can entreat; it sounds great to extract their StP) or Jund and Maverick
ANT - But are you sure you want to drop Scavenging Ooze against Ant? I play a lot against it and I think it is one of the best card completely shuting down their PiF plan. You want to keep in Abrupt Decays (I even added one from side) so you can kill random Confidant but especialy to kill LED. Sometimes they missplay and cast LED during the kill turn in advance and then you blow them out. Sometimes they dont want you to discard it and they play it turn two earlier. AD should definetly stay in. If you have slots even random explosives are possible since our discard often forces them to go Empty the Warrens route.
RUG - I know it is not the best but do you really want to side OUT Liliana against RUG? I always felt it is one of the better cards. If you play it on empty board you almost can not loose. It is very versatile. I like it a lot. I agree with dropping some GSZ and mabye some Thughtseize...
Goblins - discard is one of the strongest plays against them. I would leave it in. Evene if you cant kill/block Lackey you can Thoughtseize away their bomb. Liliana is nice (not all 3 thought) as well. You waste them, kill Vial and then you can +1 away they ringleaders. Jitte is good but not as game ending as it looks since they can quickly recover. Matron or Ringleader will tell you what to Target with Therapy.
Esper - all I am sure of is that they die to Jitte horribly. I will think about this one. You want all the cards you posted for sure.
Show and Tell - Mabye we should run those 3 Oblivion Rings (Humility) - seems like very good plan against them.
I dont know what to do with Pithing Needle. Jace, Top, Deed... Mabye one of.
I hope you take these comments as a constructive debate. :-)
Tom
I'll keep some discard against Goblins and other midrange decks as well. Against Goblins, we actually can get overrun by their card advantage once a SCG or Ringleader hits the board, so preemptively discarding them is key, imo.
Against other midrange like Jund or BUG, again forcing them to discard their card advantage spells (BBE, Bob, Shardless Agent, Strix, etc.) is better than just playing a bunch of answers for them after they hit the board.
Just my $.02.
Board what feels good, side boarding is an art sometimes you look like a rockstar and sometimes you look like a jackass.
"eggs... why'd it have to be eggs"
In the BGx mirrors, I'd say you bring in threats instead of answers, and most of the time you bring out hand disruption. Problem with discard is if you're drawing it in the late game, it's SO awful to have.
Against Jund, I'd bring out Maelstrom Pulse (for being slow) for an Ooze and a Tracker, and 2 Thoughtseize would become 2 Linvala. I'd keep the Cabal Therapies since I'm keeping in the Lingering Souls.
Came 2nd last night.
Bug: 1-1-1
Helm Combo Deck: 2-0
Esperblade: 2-1
MonoB Pox: 1-1-1
Came second and won my own Misty Rainforest!
-Matt
Sure, but that's the problem with discard almost always regardless of what deck we're playing against. It's awesome on T1-2, terrible late game.
I think going down to 4-5 discard is fine, but I don't like boarding all of it out.
Do you really like Linvala against Jund? I'm surprised by that since she doesn't really do much against them other than shut off Deathrite?
I would add that she is abrupt decay/bolt-proof, flies, and blocks 3/5ths of their creatures and survives. We can also save her via Karakas from a post-combat bolt.
"Don't mess with me, lady. I've been drinking with skeletons."
I write articles about Legacy Death and Taxes. Check them out.
No, I understand that (what creature doesn't she block well other than 'goyf?) but I'm just saying can't we find a better option vs Jund than Linvala? I would think that cards like Thrun or Obstinate Baloth would be better against Jund (not that I think we really need many cards since I think the matchup is pretty favorable for us to begin with).
Agreed. I like the Baloth & Thrun, but Flying is what seals the deal for me. Being able to strike down Liliana and then cast your own is very powerful, and shutting off their Ooze and DRS so yours can go to town? icing on the cake.
Plus, she's nuts with Jitte.
"Don't mess with me, lady. I've been drinking with skeletons."
I write articles about Legacy Death and Taxes. Check them out.
Sure, I just feel we're really wasting the main reason to play Linvala (her ability) in the Jund matchup.
Most of our dudes are nuts with Jitte since they're usually just big dudes ('goyf or Knight) or there's a swarm of them (Spirit tokens).
A fellow Tidehollow Sculler player!!! Tidehollow has been treating me pretty good lately, I've been using it instead of Hymn to Tourach in my maindeck (and boarding it out for Hymns against Burn/zoo) How many do you run? I'm currently using 4, but mostly for sideboarding flexibility. Very curious to see your list, especially because you mention Volrath's Stronghold, too (which I also use.)
EDIT: I found it one page back. We have very similar lists. The main difference is that I play Sculler maindeck, and a single Eternal Witness. Witness + Stronghold is a ball-buster of a late-game combination, and gives opponents fits when Liliana is involved.
Brainstorm Realist
I close my eyes and sink within myself, relive the gift of precious memories, in need of a fix called innocence. - Chuck Shuldiner
Sure Thrun is better in the Jund matchup, but I have Linvala in there for the BUG match as well as the Elves and other creature matchups. Shutting off Deathrites is huge, flying is also good.
-Matt
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