you can try Pithing Needle naming sneak attack.Originally Posted by kabards
there is also Oblivion Ring and a lot of people have been using Angel of Despair because she can destroy Emrakul and omniscience and give you something to clock them with.
RE: Deathrite Shaman. I've been pleased with him in my lists. He's a great utility dude, but the most important reason I run him is as another way to cast Memoricide/Slaughter Games on turn 3. Very relevant if you can't set off an Explorer.
RE: Sneak and Show. In addition to the discard/extractions, REBs counter Show and Tell. That's about it. It's not a great matchup and if they have Leyline it's way harder. Discard will normally get you there otherwise and they can't really beat Slaughter Games without Leyline.
I started off GB too but found the GBW build much more versatile. plus it give you access to the best spot removal in the format; StP.
Arianrhod, have you considered Serene Remembrance as part of the Scapewish wishboard? I am thinking of placing this rather than placing extirpates in the SB
http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Ca...verseid=366269
I've tried Attrition once or twice, but not done any serious testing with it. The biggest problem that I had with it was its awkward timing. Like, it's one of the best sac outlets for Rector there is -- but usually, you're only getting it AFTER having sac'd a Rector. Attrition also suffers as an option from Abrupt Decay. It's definitely not a bad card, it's just kind of .... awkward. Consider these options in the same vein:
Martyr's Bond
Grave Pact
Both of them do similar things to Attrition, but don't suffer Abrupt Decay, and are perfectly fine AFTER you sac Rector. Martyr's Bond in particular has almost made it into my deck so many times. I keep seeing it on one of my enchantment option pages in my binder, and I keep being frustrated by it because I WANT to use it, but I can never seem to find the space for it.
Depends on your version. Rector is actually unhealthily good at slaying Sneak/Show. Some of that may be intentional because I REALLY hate that deck, but I actually count Sneak/Show as a positive matchup; albeit it one that you're on the edge of your seat for the whole time. Rector has the following lines of attack:
Humility (via Show, cast when safe, or Rectoring in off of Emrakul trigger/normal means)
Cranial/Memoricide (namin' ur doooooods)
Extirpate (usually going after enablers, since you actively Therapy them)
Therapy (name Show and Tell first. Always! Then aim for Sneak if they have one)
Baneslayer (via Show, "counters" Griselbrand)
Sigarda (via Show, "counter" Emrakul)
Faith's Fetters (via Rector, pref. with a Phy Tower or Rusalka)
Showing Baneslayer/Sigarda is kind of a crap shoot, since you have to guess which thing they're putting out (assuming you have the option between both), but I've made a lot of Sneak/Show players very, very angry by putting out a Baneslayer vs their Griselbrand. Protection from Demons is a bitch.
If you're running Enlightened Tutor in the board, this is an option as well: Blind Obedience. Shuts down Sneak Attack completely, while having fringe uses elsewhere (Storm, namely).
BUG versions have access to things like Sower of Temptation and counterspells to fight back alongside their usual disruption.
Red versions, then, are the losers. Red versions DO have Slaughter Games, which is more potent than Cranial/Memoricide since they can't counter it OR Misdirect it. SGames WILL take something important from them. However, you need to live to the point where you can resolve one, which means you're basically all in on Therapy. The only Show and Tell target of relevance in the deck is Primeval Titan -- nothing else is worth it, unless you're experimenting with Olivia. Depending on the turn that they Show, Olivia may or may not do anything. If you Show Olivia and can just untap and take their dood, then that's awesome -- but it's not very likely to happen. REBs can help vs Show and Tell, but Red is basically kold to Sneak Attack.
On a side note, people have made the comparison of Scapewish to something like a new-age Aggro Loam, and honestly I can see it. Both are jund-colored decks that absolutely molest other fair decks, but struggle against combo to the point where it may not even be worth fighting it. I'm not sure how PFire fits in there, but I'm inclined to say that PFire should have a better combo matchup than Scapewish since you have room for an actual legit sideboard, and since your maindeck is set up to annihilate fair decks, you should be able to dedicate like your entire sideboard to various forms of combo.
I have not, and that is definitely an interesting option. My question becomes, what would you wish for it against? Considering that it's sorcery-speed, you're not going to get Reanimator targets very often -- and against Reanimator (and dredge) it's usually better to wish for Reanimate if you're given the opportunity to hit their graveyard. Also, against Dredge, only hitting 3 cards is not usually going to do enough.
I'm not dismissing it out of hand -- it's a genuinely interesting option that I hadn't noticed in the spoiler. I'm just bricking on when it would be more useful than some other options.
Yeah, thinking the same actually. I was just looking at the cards in GTC and found that in particular. Unfortunately, I never brought the Reanimate because of our meta here and the part that it is a sorcery makes me think like meh but I am thinking of better boards in the Scapewish version. Our meta here is a little bit messed up, BUG and Jund are rising but the SnT are showing again! Ergo, I am shifting my boards for the new meta and hope for the best. Hopefully, I get to play better in the next coming weeks.
Btw, while we're on the subject of random wish targets, if anyone is having trouble with Burn while using Scapewish, here's a pair of juicy sideboard options for you guys:
Fruition
Wandering Stream
So due to some budget issues I'm going to go ahead and just play straight up BG first. Anybody wanna comment on my deck list below?
3 Bayou
4 Forest
2 Misty Rainforest
1 Wooded Foothills
1 Phyrexian Tower
4 Swamp
2 Treetop Village
4 Verdant Catacombs
1 Volrath's Stronghold
1 Acidic Slime
2 Eternal Witness
1 Grave Titan
1 Primeval Titan
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Thragtusk
1 Fierce Empath
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
4 Veteran Explorer
3 Vampire Nighthawk - Saw this guy in one of the decks that top 8'd recently, and since I have him might as well try :) Or should I just put in Strangleroot Geist?
2 Abrupt Decay
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Green Sun's Zenith
2 Hymn to Tourach
2 Maelstrom Pulse
3 Pernicious Deed
4 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Recurring Nightmare
SB: 3 Carpet of Flowers
SB: 1 Cranial Extraction
SB: 3 Extirpate
SB: 1 Memoricide
SB: 4 Duress - I refuse to pay for Thoughtseizes. Gets sided in against combo anyway and it hits most, if not all, key spells.
SB: 3 Engineered Plague
I am not a huge fan of the fierce empath. One of your empath targets is already Zenithable. Also 4 tops is a bit much imo. 3 at most. And Im a fan of Wickerbough Elder > Acidic Slime personally.
I agree with Megadeus. Empath only finds you Grave Titan because your other Titan is green and therefore can be found with GSZ. I would replace Empath with a Kitchen Finks.
I would also use Wickerbourgh over Slime due to that fact that he offers more of a clock than slime does. although the argument could be made that slime affers more versatility in the ability to target a land as well. Slime also having deathtouch means it can trade with an apposing Goyfe, however the likely hood of that Slime not getting bolted prior to combat is slim.
I would also cut a Top, maybe add another piece of removal in that spot like dismember.
Edit:
Nighthawk is actually an interesting choice here. i'm not sure which is better geist or hawk but i's be interested to see the results of nighthawk in some testing.3 Vampire Nighthawk - Saw this guy in one of the decks that top 8'd recently, and since I have him might as well try :) Or should I just put in Strangleroot Geist?
Im more of a fan of GFTT as a spot removal spell. Anything our Deed hits probably also hits whatever Dismember will hit, but sometimes GFTT hits something sweet like Griselbrand.
Try this list
Creatures : 14
4 Veteran Explorer
2 Deathrite Shaman
1 Eternal Witness
1 Kitchen Finks
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Primeval Titan
1 Thragtusk
1 Wickerbough Elder
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
1 Grave Titan
Spells : 24
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Green Sun's Zenith
3 Abrupt Decay
3 Maelstrom Pulse
3 Sensei's Divining Top
3 Pernicious Deed
3 Hymn to Tourach
1 Recurring Nightmare
Lands : 22
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Forest
4 Swamp
3 Bayou
2 Treetop Village
2 Misty Rainforest
1 Wooded Foothills
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Volrath's Stronghold
Sideboard :
3 Carpet of Flowers
3 Duress
2 Ensnaring Bridge / Diabolic Edict <-- for Show and Tell dec.
2 Extirpate / Surgical Extraction
1 Cranial Extraction
1 Memoricide
1 Inquisition of Kozilek
1 Go for the throat
1 Dismember
Why not try HoneyT's list a few pages back? It's straight BG.
Anyhow, in my quest to figure out which counterspell to use to disrupt SnT, Storm, and Elves, I happened to reread Arianrhod's analysis of the upcoming metagame and came to question Carpet of Flower's usefulness against these kinds of decks.
I've tried HoneyT's list a bit, but I think for now I'd rather try and mix and match with what I already have/about to have and then fine tune it to my taste.
The argument about Empath is good, and I'll cut that. Acidic Slime breaks shit and will eat removal, so personally that's fine with me, but I'll probably try Wickerbrough Elder too see what that could do.
I personally don't like the Planeswalkers much, sure when they hit ulti its almost always GG. But the fact that you can't tutor for them, their casting cost (Lili with BB, Garruk with GGG) as well as the fact that some of the deck's cards already do what they do best... I'd stick with GSZ-able threats.
Of course, not much experience with the deck yet so let's see :)
I've never been disappointed with Elder especially against the Stoneblade decks where they have multiple equipment cards that they can tutor up.I've tried HoneyT's list a bit, but I think for now I'd rather try and mix and match with what I already have/about to have and then fine tune it to my taste.
The argument about Empath is good, and I'll cut that. Acidic Slime breaks shit and will eat removal, so personally that's fine with me, but I'll probably try Wickerbrough Elder too see what that could do.
I personally don't like the Planeswalkers much, sure when they hit ulti its almost always GG. But the fact that you can't tutor for them, their casting cost (Lili with BB, Garruk with GGG) as well as the fact that some of the deck's cards already do what they do best... I'd stick with GSZ-able threats.
Of course, not much experience with the deck yet so let's see :)
Liliana is aeesome at taking over a game. Garruk is amazing against control with terminus and making a 3/3 every turn is tough for other creature decks to beat. Liliana is also sweet against a show and tell fattie
- I like Acidic Slime more than Wickerbough Elder. They are close but Slime trades with big Goyfs and some lands (especially Academy Ruins, but there are others, too) can ruin your day. It is also one mana cheaper to use with Recurring Nightmare.
- Vampire Nighthawk is unplayble in the current metagame. It will only turn their dead hand cards into good cards. It dies to Abrupt Decay (Jund, BUG) AND Lightning Bolt (Jund, RUG) without giving any value (same vs Swords to Plowshares in U/W and Maverick). An alternative could be Liliana (Mana cost is the same here) because she will at least always get something from them.
- I think I said that a dozen times now, but the deck needs another GSZable land searcher. Either Sylvan Ranger or Sakura Tribe Elder.
I like the rest of your list.
I'd suggest:
+ 1 Grave Titan
+ 1 Sylvan Ranger
+ 2 Liliana of the Veil
- 3 Vampire Nighthawk
- 1 Fierce Empath
Garruk Relentless is CMC 4 vs Primal Hunter CMC 5. could he be potentially better in the long run? doubles as a removal spell and can make a stream of 2/2 wolves.
The goal of Prime Hunter is to be the anti-Jace because he generaly applies more pressure and provides more card advantage. Relentless is good, but PH is better for Nic Fit variants that best abuse Planeswalkers (creature-light).
Do you know what assuming does? It makes an ass out of you and me.
Get it...? Ass, u, me?
... ffs I was trying to be funny...
Sup Peeps,
Got a question for Kevin / Qwerrios / Anyone else who feels like chiming in.
I had a run in with Reanimator in round 7 at Jupiter, and against last night at our local get together.
Does anyone have any advice for dealing with these guys? My best play seemed to be burning wish for innocent blood, and slam it after they drop girizzle brand. Problem being he just said "draw 7... draw 7... force it"
Retired Berserk Stompy player
Current Decks: Scapewish NicFit, Grixis Affinity, Green Zombardment
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