All B/R update speculation.

[Mr. Safety]

The thing that kills me is that people ask for bans on the most innocuous shit. I mean I can understand people wanting Show and Tell banned, I don't agree but I understand. The people who ask for shit like GSZ, Deathrite Shaman, Stoneforge to be banned though really need to get a grip.

YES. Conversations about Mental Misstep and Survival of the fittest were at least legit. Deathrite Shaman getting banned? Really? Uggh.

I also agree about Show and Tell. Sure it's a dumb combo enabler, but it isn't impossible to fight against. I'm perfectly fine with it in the format, even fine that it's a top deck engine.

[nedleeds]

At this point the DCI is a farce for not unbanning Earthcraft and Mind Twist. We have Show and Tell, Abrupt Decay and Griselbrand running around and they are terrified of a 2 card 1G - 1GG combo that requires basic forest and doesn't win that turn, and needs to attack ... without evasion .... to win ... with squirrels.

[Amon Amarth]

The squirrels are the terrifying part. And Mind Twist was good once. That's their logic.

[KobeBryan]

might as well play modern if you ban show and tell.

[Dark Ritual]

might as well play modern if you ban show and tell.

....not even close to modern. We still have force of will, brainstorm, lion's eye diamond, and wasteland in this format while they have serum visions and a terrible banned list that includes seething song.

Concur with Amon Amarth. That is the logic of the DCI.

[Shawon]

I wonder... given the printings of Enter the Infinite and Omniscience within a year, could it possible that WotC is slowly trying to artificially create a ban for Show and Tell? If Enter the Infinite doesn't buy Show and Tell a first-class ticket to the chopping block, could we believe that in the future, or perhaps by the time Dragon's Maze is released, that we'll see another powerful card in print with obvious S&T applications?

Say in the future came along a Yawgmoth's Bargain reprint in its original form except with an exorbitantly high mana cost. If a card like that were to come out in the future, would that finally get S&T ready for the banhammer?

The more I think about it, the more I wouldn't put it past WotC to take such a roundabout measure to ban a card they supposedly don't like. They can't currently ban Show and Tell according to their B&R policies, because S&T doesn't put up enough numbers to indicate a dominating presence. I'm probably just reaching, but I think it's interesting to think of the possibility that WotC reserves an option to engineer its own bannings by printing cards intended to make a specific strategy too powerful to be kept in a format.

[Barook]

I wonder... given the printings of Enter the Infinite and Omniscience within a year, could it possible that WotC is slowly trying to artificially create a ban for Show and Tell? If Enter the Infinite doesn't buy Show and Tell a first-class ticket to the chopping block, could we believe that in the future, or perhaps by the time Dragon's Maze is released, that we'll see another powerful card in print with obvious S&T applications?

Say in the future came along a Yawgmoth's Bargain reprint in its original form except with an exorbitantly high mana cost. If a card like that were to come out in the future, would that finally get S&T ready for the banhammer?

The more I think about it, the more I wouldn't put it past WotC to take such a roundabout measure to ban a card they supposedly don't like. They can't currently ban Show and Tell according to their B&R policies, because S&T doesn't put up enough numbers to indicate a dominating presence. I'm probably just reaching, but I think it's interesting to think of the possibility that WotC reserves an option to engineer its own bannings by printing cards intended to make a specific strategy too powerful to be kept in a format.

Wizards doesn't care about Legacy that much. There's no conspiracy.

They just churn out stupid, badly designed Mythics to appeal the casuals.

[Lemnear]

They can't currently ban Show and Tell according to their B&R policies, because S&T doesn't put up enough numbers to indicate a dominating presence.

Didn't prevent mystical Tutor from being banned. It neither presented the numbers or performance. WotC can pull the "gentleman's agreement" shit out of the hat again.

[menace13]

Didn't prevent mystical Tutor from being banned. It neither presented the numbers or performance. WotC can pull the "gentleman's agreement" shit out of the hat again.

I will still NEVER get over the fact that wotc basically said: Players who play for money will not play the best decks, because, you know, gentlemen and all. So we banned it for you.

And anyone thinks that wotc cant do whatever they want, still?

[Vacrix]

I will still NEVER get over the fact that wotc basically said: Players who play for money will not play the best decks, because, you know, gentlemen and all. So we banned it for you.

And anyone thinks that wotc cant do whatever they want, still?

Lol.. its a business. They aren't supposed to care about you. The players who play for money are outnumbered by those who don't. The only time that this would ever flip on its head is if the people that exclusively play standard, modern, and EDH realized that they only reason they don't play Legacy.. is they spend most of their time whining about how good everything is instead of actually making play decisions. If they realized this.. and had some semblance of self-respect.. perhaps then Legacy would be a format Wizards would care about. But apparently the vast majority of people who play this game prefer playing with little kids in Standard to adults with jobs in Legacy. I mean.. conceivably if Wizards or perhaps Starcity handed out more ice at their events then we'd have fewer Standard players with sore butt pussies running around talking about how bullshit their Legacy experiences have been.

In general though, apathy has been working quite well for Legacy's balance. The less they involve their hands in this metagame, the better IMO. The best case scenario would just be for them to recognize it as a format and mostly just let it be as they print new cards. If they have any influence, I'd think they would want to improve disappearing archetypes, thus keeping players in the game without them having to dish out for a viable deck after their's disappears. At this point you should be catching on that there isn't much money in it for wizards to do this. So thank the internet for Starcitygames for caring where Wizards would not.

[dontbiteitholmes]

I will still NEVER get over the fact that wotc basically said: Players who play for money will not play the best decks, because, you know, gentlemen and all. So we banned it for you.

And anyone thinks that wotc cant do whatever they want, still?

I still think when WotC banned Mystical Tutor they did the right thing for the wrong reason.

I mean was it too much to say "Mystical Tutor is the best tutor available in the format. It is capable not only of searching out combo win conditions at end of turn, but also of searching out accelerators or specific anti-hate cards to the permanents that traditionally allow non-blue decks to interact with combo. This allows combo decks to have too much flexibility for an instant speed tutor. With the quick fundamental combo turn Mystical Tutor allows, as well as the increased sideboard flexibility, and the combined power of Mystical Tutor and Brainstorm negating discard, this tutor makes combo decks too difficult to interact with for non-blue decks which can not manipulate the stack. As a result Mystical Tutor is banned."

I feel like a lot more people would have agreed with the banning of Mystical had the stated reason not been so idiotic.

[Lemnear]

I still think when WotC banned Mystical Tutor they did the right thing for the wrong reason.

I mean was it too much to say "Mystical Tutor is the best tutor available in the format. It is capable not only of searching out combo win conditions at end of turn, but also of searching out accelerators or specific anti-hate cards to the permanents that traditionally allow non-blue decks to interact with combo. This allows combo decks to have too much flexibility for an instant speed tutor. With the quick fundamental combo turn Mystical Tutor allows, as well as the increased sideboard flexibility, and the combined power of Mystical Tutor and Brainstorm negating discard, this tutor makes combo decks too difficult to interact with for non-blue decks which can not manipulate the stack. As a result Mystical Tutor is banned."

I feel like a lot more people would have agreed with the banning of Mystical had the stated reason not been so idiotic.

We can still discuss, if the decision to ban mystical could be well-thought, then the official reasoning of the DCI was that stupid.

[nedleeds]

Brainstorm goes 10 for 10 at SCG Cincinnati ... all hail diversity.

[cogitoergosum]

Say in the future came along a Yawgmoth's Bargain reprint in its original form except with an exorbitantly high mana cost. If a card like that were to come out in the future, would that finally get S&T ready for the banhammer?

You mean Griselbrand?

[Dark Ritual]

You mean Griselbrand?

You mean alongside griselbrand? 4 show and tell, 4 yawgmoth's bargain thing, 4 griselbrand in the same deck. What are you going to play? I know what I'm going to play, I'm playing show and tell storm combo because it would be hilariously busted until show and tell got the axe.

[Koby]

You mean alongside griselbrand? 4 show and tell, 4 yawgmoth's bargain thing, 4 griselbrand in the same deck. What are you going to play? I know what I'm going to play, I'm playing show and tell storm combo because it would be hilariously busted until show and tell got the axe.

Why limit yourself to 3 mana enablers? Shallow Grave only costs 2 mana.

[.dk]

Why limit yourself to 3 mana enablers? Shallow Grave only costs 2 mana.

and that's why Griselbrand is better than Bargain. It's easier and cheaper to get into play. And as a bonus, it can swing for the win!

[Dark Ritual]

Why limit yourself to 3 mana enablers? Shallow Grave only costs 2 mana.

Show and tell reanimator storm? I like the sound of that. We play all the unfair cards. LED, shallow grave, crack LED, griselbrand, draw some cards, hope to find what you need to win if not attack and draw some more. Hilarious part? Children of korlis still gets to make an appearance.

[countorlandea]

Brainstorm goes 10 for 10 at SCG Cincinnati ... all hail diversity.

Brainstorm isn't what hurts though. The cards which it finds do.

haven't read too many pages but I don't doubt that the hot card to call a ban for right now is SnT.

however, I have started to notice some people sideboarding strange things, like angel of despair? oring, that other ring i can't remember...their own emrakuls.
.

[Dark Ritual]

Brainstorm isn't what hurts though. The cards which it finds do.

haven't read too many pages but I don't doubt that the hot card to call a ban for right now is SnT.

however, I have started to notice some people sideboarding strange things, like angel of despair? oring, that other ring i can't remember...their own emrakuls.
.

I've seen stifle out of show and tell sideboards to combat said cards. And honestly, I don't blame them with people playing bullshit like angel of despair. When you put omniscience into play and stifle for free, it's great. I even got stifled out of the game manabase wise with high tide against show and tell where I got stuck on 1 land due to his double stifle draw.

Brainstorm isn't a problem at all. When people go on tirades against brainstorm you're just wasting your breath. The card isn't getting banned because it enables all decks equally, it's not like brainstorm is better in one deck than it is in all the others like mystical tutor.