i'm from nj and haven't been playing for a while - so i think playing doomsday is out of the question. that being said i might play this deck. (it's been a long time since i've played it, is the new land very good in the deck?)Originally Posted by blindspotxxx
i don't mind netdecking your latest list rock since it's your baby.
-rob
Rock,
As someone said earlier, the list currently has a difficult matchup versus RUG. The specific list I'm talking about was the one with oblivion stone, but the current Thespian Stage version I find to be an even worse matchup since repeal is gone. The sideboard really doesn't have much in the way of answers either. The meta where I play is guaranteed to have at least one ANT player and one RUG player at all times, so things are looking rough now. Any thoughts?
If disruption is that much of a problem, Spell Pierce, Flusterstorm and countermagic in general are your friends because they shoot all those cards (except Wasteland).
Additional Comment:
It took a few test runs with Rock's latest list with a friend* today after reading the first post about the deck being "softer", but I noticed what's coming up about RUG (even though my friend was the MUD player) is that the mainboard is now a less of a Control tricks deck and closer to a glass cannon type deck similar to my R/G Tron deck in Modern. I wasn't going to say anything because that's not a bad thing because I love my R/G Tron deck, but the play-style is closer to RG Tron than classic 12-Post that I was playing with Pithing Needle and Repeal. One thing that I can say is that the MUD match-up looks a little better mainly because Oblivion Stone wipes out all their tricks.
*I'd like to thank my friend for letting me proxy up the cards I didn't have, namely Exploration.
Last edited by Mockingbird; 02-06-2013 at 10:50 AM.
I might try this deck in a tournament this weekend.
This should give a pretty good idea about how an idiot with no experience with the deck (or any relevant Show and Tell experience, and minor Standard ramp/Valakut experience) can do with this deck.
Another thing is my lack of certain cards such as Oblivion Stones and Thespian Stages (yes, I know...). So I will run something akin to this:
4 Cloudpost
4 Vesuva
4 Glimmerpost
4 Tropical Island
4 Misty Rainforest
2 Island
1 Eye of Ugin
1 Karakas
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Glacial Chasm
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
1 Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre
4 Primeval Titan
4 Show and Tell
4 Brainstorm
4 Crop Rotation
4 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Expedition Map
2 Candelabra of Tawnos
3 Repeal
2 All is Dust
As for the sideboard, I only can find 3 Flusterstorms, and getting to 4 will probably be a crucial priority. Right now I am running this:
4 Mindbreak Trap
3 Flusterstorm
3 Venser, Shaper Savant
2 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
2 Elephant Grass
1 Blue Elemental Blast
Well, if I end up playing this, I will let y'all know how it went.
Went 4-0 at our local FNM Legacy.
Still using the 4 Brainstorm 4 Show and Tell build and 0 Thespian Stages and Exploration.
I replaced 1 Repeal with 1 Oblivion Stone but I couldn't find space for the 2nd one.
Sideboard:
3 Spell Pierce
3 Flusterstorm
3 Chalice of the Void
2 Venser, Shaper Savant
2 Elephant Grass
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrel Valle
1 Pithing Needle
Didn't face any new decks so it did well.
2 Esper Stoneblade
1 Goblins
1 TES
How are the exploration builds so far?
Did the Goblin deck run Skullcrack? I ask because someone on the MTGSalvation thread said that it shreds Glimmerpost and Glacial Chasm defenses. I was asking because I wanted to know how you reacted to it if you ran into it.
Also, nothing much on the Exploration build at the moment (other than "Thespian's Stage" jokes) because most of my Legacy friends (and me) are busy at the moment with school. A rulings question did come up though with Thespian's Stage:
If I have Vesuva enter the battlefield copying a Thespian's Stage copying a Cloudpost, will Vesuva enter as a Cloudpost with Thespian's Stage's transformation ability?
So I've been following this deck for a while, was curious as to how we're doing with the mono green build for us budget players.
I'm curious as to what out tools are against fast combo decks, as we lose out on flusterstorm and brainstorm for filtering. Also, what would be a fully updated list for mono green (more thespian's stages, I'd imagine)?
Chalice of the Void, Mindbreak Trap, maybe thorn of amythest?
I'm a huge fan of this deck and want to work my way towards having the full list, shows and all. Right now the only reason I'm not full UG is the price of Tropicals, and I think the mono-green list could have merit in it's own right as a possibly faster variant. Thanks a ton for any and all input, and thanks for the great list Rock Lee.
Goblin decks won't run Skullcrack just for us. We are such a minority in the Meta that decks won't really pack hate against us. Problem is most burn decks will run Skullcrack if they're smart. It counters so many things, even Circle of Protection: Red!
Glacial Chasm has saved me so many times against Goblins, for me it's pretty even with a slight edge with Turbo Eldrazzi, because if they don't draw Wastelands we have time to set up. Show and Tell Primeval Titan or Emrakul is pretty much gg for them as well.
The odds are probably 60/40 or maybe 70/30 in our favor. Sometimes Goblins just have the nuts and kill us too fast.
I know that Goblins wouldn't play Skullcrack just for us. But we're not the only deck that plays life gain or damage prevention though... Batterskull and Wurmcoil Engine come to mind. I trying to bring up Skullcrack because it is a red card that lets red deck do their red things all the while preventing other decks anti-red from getting in the way. The honest biggest worry I have with Goblins is their side plan tends to be Surgical Extraction a Wastelanded Cloudpost.
And even against burn, I wouldn't say Skullcrack justifies a change in Glacial Chasm or Glimmerpost because they can't Skullcrack every Glimmerpost trigger or turn off Glacial Chasm all the time.
If you want to talk budget, there needs to be a ballpark number attached to how much to a single you are hypothetically willing to pay out. The only true non-budget cards 12-Post can't live without are the Eldrazi, who are currently at the $20 mark with the likelihood of rising as they continue to be used in Legacy and Modern with no reprint.
This is the latest Rock Lee has posted on a Mono-Green Build
+Plus+
The thing is that this isn't budget. I'm going to assume that you don't want to pay triple digit prices, so that cuts out Tropical Island (you can run Breeding Pool if you want blue that bad), Tabernacle, Candelabra, and Karakas if you don't any of them. If the most you're willing to spend on singles are the Eldrazi and only because they are necessary (again, unless you already own them), you lose out on a lot more like Misty Rainforest, Wasteland, and Crucilbe. One the flip side, the fortunate thing of a tight budget is that with the holes and depending on what you are willing to buy, there is room to test out a full play set of Thespian's Stage as a 16-Post deck and other uncommon goodies, so feel free to go nuts. As Mark Rosewater said, "Restriction breeds creativity."
I think "Budget" was too strong a word, perhaps "less expensive" would've been a better phrase to use.
No, this deck isn't strictly budget, but saving 200 on show and tells and 200+ on duals, 100 on misties does bring the tag down a bit. I'm already dedicated to this deck, and if candles weren't +100 a piece I'd already have most of the deck. I'm just trying to come up with essentially a build without show and tell + expensive mana base in order to try and cut costs initially.
I tested Rock's mono green build last night with some success other than getting t1'd against my friend's TES deck a few times during g1's, but that's going to happen without forces. I'm thinking of putting a ug version together with sticks and ducttape (breeding pools + random fetches + explore instead of show) just to have a tournament playable deck put together. Mono Green's total lack of combo-oriented board cards really hurts it, and flusterstorm is honestly the best card I could be running against most combo, so honestly I'll just shove in explores and make it work with the ghetto blue splash.
This deck is fantastic, I've been following it's development for months. Hope to see you on a feature match camera sometime soon, Post players.
I believe they still wouldn't play Skullcracks. They have goblins that kill artifacts so it's not really relevant against Stoneblade. Yep I never said that we should remove the Glacial Chasms or Glimmerpost but the match has turned from 50-50 to unfavored. I can't think of a good sideboard card against BURN at the moment. They have access to so many cards that kill us. Price of Progress, Sulfuric Vortex and Skull Crack!!!
I can only think of siding in 3 Flusterstorm, 3 Spell Pierce and 3 Chalice for the match up. I was thinking of countering some burn so you can get the Eldrazzi or Titan plan going and kill them.
Also, 12-post in the Top 8 of SCG again!!! I Hope it wins it all :)
12 Post
Austin Katzin
8th Place at StarCityGames.com Legacy Open on 2/10/2013
Creatures (7)
4 Primeval Titan
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
1 Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre
Lands (27)
1 Forest
1 Island
1 Bojuka Bog
4 Cloudpost
1 Glacial Chasm
4 Glimmerpost
4 Misty Rainforest
1 Thespian's Stage
4 Tropical Island
4 Vesuva
1 Eye of Ugin
1 Karakas
Spells (27)
2 Candelabra of Tawnos
3 Expedition Map
4 Oblivion Stone
4 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Brainstorm
4 Crop Rotation
3 Repeal
3 Show and Tell
Sideboard
3 Blue Elemental Blast
4 Flusterstorm
3 Mindbreak Trap
3 Surgical Extraction
1 Show and Tell
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
Lost to Sneak Show :(
0 Pithing Needle Build with 4 Oblivion Stones
Last edited by blindspotxxx; 02-10-2013 at 10:35 PM.
In terms of burn, I think Blue Elemental Blast just worked up on the importance scale. Plus it also catches other decks besides burn as well.
On Goblins, alright. I see what you are saying. Unless there is a meta shift that makes Skullcrack necessary in Goblins, they really don't need the effect as bad as burn. It may see tests, but until then, I say we just move on that front since this isn't a Goblin thread after all. Maybe I'll go peek in on them and see if they've even said anything about Skullcrack...
My notes:
About Pithing Needle, Surgical Extraction served in its place, so while it wasn't there in body, Austin was still siding with the spirit of Pithing Needle (I know you should know; I'm noting this for the passerby's that will wonder through this thread). Granted it's reactive instead of proactive, but it's also more permanent than Pithing Needle, too.
I'm not sure how much I like four Oblivion Stone main deck, but I see why he did it. It's for the same reason that I now main one Venser, Shaper Savant. It's relevance comes up so much that having it game 1 is worth making the room.
Speaking of Venser, there isn't any anywhere in this 75. I'm a cross between intrigued and disappointed (it's Show and Tell's Enemy is why). I could see the decision for Mindbreak Trap over it since Trap stops combo flat.
The more I play Trinket Mage, the more I like it. Personally, I would have moved an Oblivion Stone to the side and done something to something else to make room for a pair of them because the utility of getting our most important artifacts is amazing. Just like how Eldrazi can solve anything the deck needs, our one drop artifacts do a lot of the same as well. But then again, unlike the Eldrazi, they aren't as necessary, so I'm going to credit it to a play style and meta decision.
This is going to be my most petty question and may just be me in my blind ignorance, but why is he running a basic Forest? I know that it's for the Green, but he runs more blue main board, and post board, he runs a LOT more blue. I think it should have been a Thespian's Stage, Island, or heck, even a Breeding Pool if he wants to up his dual count over four.*
*Eh... while I'll defend Island and Thespian's Stage, in the long run I'd likely run a Forest over Breeding Pool, but that Forest just stands out.
All that said, I like his deck a lot. He did a lot of things right, and the results speak for themselves (Top 32 is doing something right in my book, so Top 8... that's a major achievement). And even though I scratch my head on a couple of his choices, making it as far as he did just goes to show the flexibility the deck can engineer to where these varying choices and play styles are all viable. I look forward to mining Star City games for footage of him playing or if time doesn't permit, someone mining it up for all of us to watch.
Too bad Jeremiah didn't make the top8 as well, i'm curious what list he was playing.
I'm curious to Rock Lee's Report. He also had a win and in match or maybe nearly a win and in match. He was at the top tables before the last round.
suggest for mono green build
I'm Austin, and this is my first time posting on The Source, but I felt it was worth responding to some of this. I'm fairly new to Eldrazi, having only played it in a few tournaments, and have done very little testing outside of those. My card choices were largely based on discussions with Rock Lee, and the conclusions he came to as a result of his testing.In terms of burn, I think Blue Elemental Blast just worked up on the importance scale. Plus it also catches other decks besides burn as well.
On Goblins, alright. I see what you are saying. Unless there is a meta shift that makes Skullcrack necessary in Goblins, they really don't need the effect as bad as burn. It may see tests, but until then, I say we just move on that front since this isn't a Goblin thread after all. Maybe I'll go peek in on them and see if they've even said anything about Skullcrack...
My notes:
About Pithing Needle, Surgical Extraction served in its place, so while it wasn't there in body, Austin was still siding with the spirit of Pithing Needle (I know you should know; I'm noting this for the passerby's that will wonder through this thread). Granted it's reactive instead of proactive, but it's also more permanent than Pithing Needle, too.
I'm not sure how much I like four Oblivion Stone main deck, but I see why he did it. It's for the same reason that I now main one Venser, Shaper Savant. It's relevance comes up so much that having it game 1 is worth making the room.
Speaking of Venser, there isn't any anywhere in this 75. I'm a cross between intrigued and disappointed (it's Show and Tell's Enemy is why). I could see the decision for Mindbreak Trap over it since Trap stops combo flat.
The more I play Trinket Mage, the more I like it. Personally, I would have moved an Oblivion Stone to the side and done something to something else to make room for a pair of them because the utility of getting our most important artifacts is amazing. Just like how Eldrazi can solve anything the deck needs, our one drop artifacts do a lot of the same as well. But then again, unlike the Eldrazi, they aren't as necessary, so I'm going to credit it to a play style and meta decision.
This is going to be my most petty question and may just be me in my blind ignorance, but why is he running a basic Forest? I know that it's for the Green, but he runs more blue main board, and post board, he runs a LOT more blue. I think it should have been a Thespian's Stage, Island, or heck, even a Breeding Pool if he wants to up his dual count over four.*
*Eh... while I'll defend Island and Thespian's Stage, in the long run I'd likely run a Forest over Breeding Pool, but that Forest just stands out.
All that said, I like his deck a lot. He did a lot of things right, and the results speak for themselves (Top 32 is doing something right in my book, so Top 8... that's a major achievement). And even though I scratch my head on a couple of his choices, making it as far as he did just goes to show the flexibility the deck can engineer to where these varying choices and play styles are all viable. I look forward to mining Star City games for footage of him playing or if time doesn't permit, someone mining it up for all of us to watch.
About specific cards:
Forest - This was entirely my choice. I like to have at least one basic for each color in the deck, as insurance against Wasteland. I know it's probably suboptimal, but I like to know that I will always have one reliable green source.
Surgical Extraction - This is one of Rock's suggestions. Surgical serves as extra graveyard hate, protection from opposing Surgicals, and recurring or multiple Wastelands. Because it is so flexible, Rock has been trying builds that use it.
Oblivion Stone - This card is AMAZING. With all the Jund, BUG, Junk, and other permanent-based decks out there, having this card will often win you the game just by hitting the table. Again, this was one of Rock's suggestions, and I was extremely happy with it's performance. Along with the decks I mentioned before, it saved me against Rest in Peace combo, and would have won me a second game against Sneak and Show in the quarters if I hadn't played right into his Stifle. I was not unhappy with having four main deck at all.
Venser - Venser wasn't present because of the decline in popularity of Omnitell. Venser is amazing in that match-up, but does little against Sneak and Show, which will often be able to put one of their fatties into play in response to the Venser trigger. O-Stone, which is better against Sneak and Show, can serve a similar purpose against Omnitell by destroying the Omniscience, either preventing them from using it to win, or destroying the Emrakul. (again, a Rock Lee suggestion)
I would like to attribute my place in the tournament to skill, but much of it was simply getting easy pairings. Unfortunately, I did not take notes during the matches, and so do not have enough information to give a full tournament report.
Congrats on the Top 8.
What were your pairings for the event, if you still remember?
I watched your win-and-in against the Miracle Helm deck, and he made a horrible misplay against you Game 2, which gave you the opening to win the whole thing. Emrakul really makes people panic, doesn't he? haha!
Cool. It's nice to meet you. I'm not that surprised and congratulations on the Top 8. First, I would like to apologize if I sounded scathing in any manner; I'm not. Even though I have things to say, I still understand my place until I have my SCG Top 8, I don't know better. I just ask questions and throw ideas against the wall.
The honest truth is that the Locus deck is forgiving enough that it really doesn't matter what happens with the free two slots that generally go for Basic lands. Even though I scratched my head, like I said, it's petty and ultimately, if the Forest was actually a problem, then it'd be gone.
I know. I discovered the power of SE through backlogging the Eldrazi threads here and having my Cloudpost SE'ed once. I was acknowledging that in my own post and think it's a good decision. In fact, the only reason for someone to play Pithing Needle over Surgical Extraction at this point in time is really because Pithing Needle can be fetched with Trinket Mage.
Good to know. I didn't think that you would be. I suppose I should give a little more on Oblivion Stone because I play it in 12-Post and in my Modern R/G Tron deck, and yes, I agree it's amazing. Locus needed a sweeper, and I'm not surprised this filled the spot. My thing about 4 Oblivion Stone is that I generally just don't need 4 Game 1 in either deck because those decks tend to be doing their own thing rather than specifically hating me out, which I tend to be able to handle with one, sometimes two O-Stones. Postboard I have a lot more to worry about; however, given your Top 8, I just might try putting all four to main-deck work, or with a combination of All is Dust.
True, but the one thing that I still love about Venser is that he's been good for me because I like the Capsize style set-up I get between him and Karakas. However, while that's cute and works for me and where I'm located in a Legacy... Lukewarm spot, on a larger scale, I've known for awhile that Oblivion Stone is working towards replacing him (along with some other cards that have been commonly played in the past).
It does say something though when you get that many "easy" pairings. I've always found skill to be an abstract and overrated aspect of a Trading Card Game (it's a long story involving Yu-Gi-Oh as well as Magic, so if you want to know, please PM me; don't ask here). But regardless, I can say that you played the tournament smart, which is an achievement. Once again, congratulations.
Last edited by Mockingbird; 02-12-2013 at 09:00 PM.
They finally posted Jeremiah's list in SCG:
http://sales.starcitygames.com//deck...p?DeckID=52981
He was just short of Top 16... bad pairings perhaps?
I'm just curious. why is this card so amazing?
In my point of view: Jund, BUG and Junk all run Abrupt Decay. Why would it be so great to just put Oblivion Stone on the table?
It's also exposed to opposing Oblivion Rings and such.
And against those decks you are the one running alot of artifacts, not them! Especially relevant are Pithing Needle and Candelabra which you'll lose when cracking O-Stone.
Several avantages of All is Dust over O--stone:
I find the power of being unexpected and cast directly from the hand much bigger. To do this with O-stone it costs 1 mora mana and you're exposed to both counterspells and Stifles all in the same turn!!
Another advantage of All is Dust is ability to cost less with Eye of Ugin.
I don't see how it's so much better than All is Dust? Can someone plase explain.
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