[Deck] Nic Fit (GBx Explorer Zenith Control)

[Arianrhod]

Seems like there was a lot of theft at Edison this weekend. More then I remember at any Starcity event.

Which is both hilarious and disturbing, because they had two security guards - one posted at the door and the other wandering the event.

[Qweerios]

Moving forward, I'll probably end up cutting the Master of the Wild Hunt, well aware that I've been raving about him lately. I think I'm going to opt for the 4th Green Sun, finally. Rector's been okay without it, but I feel like I want a little more consistency, especially with getting and setting off Rectors, and the 4th Green Sun will go a long way towards that. It also gives us more ways to hit Sigarda vs Jund, for example, which is important.

200 pages later... The epiphany!

On the topic of Punishing Jund, I playtested against it for a good 20+ matches (3-4 hours) with Stoneblade and BGW Nic Fit. When poorly boarded, Blade Control tends to win most of the games (8 out of 9). When appropriately boarded Jund tends to beat Blade Control most of the time (8 out of 9). When Nic Fit shows up, the Jund player tends to give up completely and go home most of the time (10 out of 10). Laying down an explorer seems to be all you need to do to take down Jund. Here's the list I used:


Creatures (15)
4 Veteran Explorer
2 Wall of Blossoms
2 Eternal Witness
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Fierce Empath
1 Thragtusk
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons
1 Sun Titan
1 Grave Titan

Spells (23)
4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Cabal Therapy
3 Thoughtseize
3 Abrupt Decay
2 Vindicate

4 Pernicious Deed
3 Sensei's Divining Top

Lands (22)
1 Volrath's Stronghold
1 Phyrexian Tower
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Windswept Heath
2 Bayou
2 Savannah
1 Scrubland
3 Forest
2 Swamp
2 Plains

Sideboard (15)
1 Angel of Despair
1 Abrupt Decay
2 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Thoughtseize
2 Duress
2 Memoricide
2 Extirpate
2 Nihil Spellbomb
2 Oblivion Ring


During postboard games I would take out 3 Thoughtseize and 1 Teeg for 1 Angel, 1 Decay, and 2 Pulse.

Also, for this particular list, I am down to very detailed tweaks and would like to hear what people think about taking away the 3rd Forest in favor of the 3rd Bayou, and removing Grave Titan altogether in favor of maindeck Angel of Despair. I don't think the 3rd basic Forest is required and Bayou probably offers more consistency to the deck. Being stuck on basics forests and plains when holding Therapy and Deed can be troublesome, much more than the casual Wasteland but perhaps there is more to it. As for Grave Titan, I find him underwhelming when I have access to Thragtusk. Both creatures have similar purposes because they are both resilient, offer great value, loop well with the two towers and more. Thragtusk, however, costs less, is more accessible, survives sweepers, and gaining life is more valuable than producing chump blockers in most cases. Angel of Despair is all-around good with a valuable CiP effect, good synergy with the two towers, and a sizeable flying body which is not to be overlooked. She is also an out to SnT decks pre-board and a better Jace puncher than Grave Titan (which is what I think he was there for to begin with). Removing Titan in favor of Angel also opens up an additional SB slot.


@Sherko7,

Look at my sig, there is a Rector Fit version there that doesn't use Moat. You can also easely substitute Nether Void for Leyline of Sanctity and be just fine. I never liked Moat in the Rector versions to begin with because:
a) we already have access to Deed at that point, and;
b) matchups affected by Moat are often largely in our favor to begin with.

@EpicLevelCommoner,

Dinrova Horror is actualy not a bad idea. It is indeed a tool against SnT decks for BUG Fit, however, I am afraid it is underpowered for every other situation.

[Kich867]

Seems like there was a lot of theft at Edison this weekend. More then I remember at any Starcity event.

There was at least 4 decks off the top of my head that I know were stolen. I kept my bag between my legs or on my back or in my arms while I was sitting the entire event. Mostly as a pillow, because I was tired as shit and I played EIGHT FUCKING COMBO DECKS.

In any event, I'll be ordering what I need for Junk-Fit as well as stuff for a brewy, bad, amazingly awesome combo deck that I thought up of the same colors, tonight.

Qweerios I like your JunkFit list, would you mind telling me what you name VS TES/Ant with Memoricide? Do you just blow out their ad nauseam? And what exactly is the wall of blossoms for? It cantrips which is nice but, I'm wondering if there isn't something better in that slot?

[Qweerios]

Qweerios I like your JunkFit list, would you mind telling me what you name VS TES/Ant with Memoricide? Do you just blow out their ad nauseam? And what exactly is the wall of blossoms for? It cantrips which is nice but, I'm wondering if there isn't something better in that slot?

There is no specific targets for Memoricide against storm combos because it will largely depend on how your first 1-3 turns went with the discard spells. Sometimes I will use it as an additional discard (naming something I know they have in hand) or I will get rid of win conditions (Tendrils if I am holding a Deed or have a sizeable board), or just take away whatever card could be topdecked to lose at that point (Infernal Tutor, Past in Flames, Ad Nauseam).

Wall of Blossoms is an additional piece of synergy to the deck (Etermal Witness' little brother). Having something valuable to play or GSZ for Therapy flashbacks when you don't want to ramp your opponent is valuable. It also buys a surprising amount of time against a lot of decks and is amongst my top2 cards to bring back with Sun Titan (Deed and Wall). When your hand is high in lands, it will allow you to hold back on your Deed until your opponent overextends while you passively drop lands. When your hand is low on lands, it will usualy buy enough time and dig far enough to find more. When you are fighting against Combo or Control he simply cantrips and allows you the second therapy use. It basicaly plays like Coiling Oracle but it is much easier to cast and while it doesn't give you the opportunity to ramp, it actualy has a body that matters at that point in the game.

[Arianrhod]

200 pages later... The epiphany!

Hey now, we've both been right about one thing -- I had Liliana and you have GSZ. We're tied :P

Also, /barn regarding Memoricide targets. It really depends on the situation and their specific lists against decks like ANT and TES. It's not like High Tide where you slam it on Time Spiral and they scoop.

[kabards]

There was at least 4 decks off the top of my head that I know were stolen. I kept my bag between my legs or on my back or in my arms while I was sitting the entire event. Mostly as a pillow, because I was tired as shit and I played EIGHT FUCKING COMBO DECKS.

In any event, I'll be ordering what I need for Junk-Fit as well as stuff for a brewy, bad, amazingly awesome combo deck that I thought up of the same colors, tonight.

Qweerios I like your JunkFit list, would you mind telling me what you name VS TES/Ant with Memoricide? Do you just blow out their ad nauseam? And what exactly is the wall of blossoms for? It cantrips which is nice but, I'm wondering if there isn't something better in that slot?

for me if i did't hit a therapy i would probably name Infernal Tutor

[Blastoderm]

for me if i did't hit a therapy i would probably name Infernal Tutor

I name infernal tutor most of the time so they can't go grab ad nauseam.

[sherko7]

So I know the answer to this might be a few pages back, but I might have read most, if not all of the thread from 150 onwards and don't remember but how do you go insane with Recycle? Is it as simple as putting it into play and trying to "play" shitload of cards? Or is there more to it than that?

[vilnico]

The Karn and Angel slots are kind of meh. Unfortunately, there aren't a whole lot of things that are good vs Show and Tell decks -and- vs grindy/attritiony decks. I boarded the Karn/Angel in vs Miracles and Jund, and never cast them / never Empathed for the Angel.

First thanks for your feedback in Edison, very appreciable.
Just one question on your list, have you ever been regretting not being able to decay a DRS preventing you to trigger Rector ?

Hope your buddy will get his cards back :(

About the quote, would not a mix of Humility and additional Fetters better than Karn/Angel in this role ?

By the way, technical question on S&T resolution. Can our Faith's Fetters enchant their stupid thing ? In extenso, can Sneak Attack be triggered at that moment before Fetters becomes fully active ?

@sherko: With Top on the board, Recycle is just crazy. All the more if you have a few cabal Therapies in graveyard. And indeed all you have to do is "play" cards.

[XdeckX]

Regarding Faith's fetters: you cannot fetters the card your opponent puts into play since the fetters needs a target to enchant before it enters play.

[sherko7]

OK so finally by Thursday my BG list will be "complete"... Well kinda, I added in some fillers that seem to be working (in a way) :O

3 Bayou
4 Forest
3 Misty Rainforest
1 Phyrexian Tower
4 Swamp
2 Treetop Village
4 Verdant Catacombs
1 Volrath's Stronghold

4 Veteran Explorer
2 Wall of Blossoms
2 Sakura-Tribe Elder
1 Acidic Slime
2 Eternal Witness
1 Grave Titan
1 Primeval Titan
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Thragtusk
1 Thrun, the Last Troll

3 Abrupt Decay
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Green Sun's Zenith
2 Hymn to Tourach
2 Maelstrom Pulse
3 Pernicious Deed
3 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Recurring Nightmare

SB: 3 Carpet of Flowers
SB: 1 Cranial Extraction
SB: 2 Extirpate
SB: 1 Memoricide
SB: 3 Duress
SB: 2 Engineered Plague
SB: 2 Diabolic Edict
SB: 1 Golgari Charm


I'm liking really liking Wall of Blossoms, it is decent in most matchups - stalls versus aggro and another warm body to sac to Therapy against combo/control. Sakura-Tribe Elder is there to provide some other means of ramp. I will most likely be cutting either one of those 2 or 1 of them completely in favor of some Planeswalkers or 1 more Thragtusk. Would also like to make room for some Innocent Blood, watcha think? :)

@Recycle: Time to test that on Cockatrice. I'm really hoping the GB version can fight off well against our current meta. That way I can slowly invest on the Rector build without suddenly splurging again. Also, really want that 4th Bayou but its selling like hotcakes everywhere here, and the prices are getting steeper.

[Tao]

So I know the answer to this might be a few pages back, but I might have read most, if not all of the thread from 150 onwards and don't remember but how do you go insane with Recycle? Is it as simple as putting it into play and trying to "play" shitload of cards? Or is there more to it than that?

Nothing more to it. If you managed to stabilize the board you can set it up and start drawing.

Think of it this way: Every card you play does now the same thing as before except it has "when you play this, draw a card" written on it. That is the difference between Silvergill Adept and Coral Merfolk. It spirals quickly.

Here are a few things to remember on Recycle:

- playing lands will draw you a card
- Cabal Therapy Flashback and Sensei's Divining Top are the deck's ways to cheat on the "2 hand cards" rule which is a nice bonus but usually not overly important. But against Hymn to Tourach or double Stifle (on Recycle trigger) it is very important because they might lock you out of the game and a Therapy in the Graveyard or a Top in play gets around these threats.

[TerribleTim68]

Seems like there was a lot of theft at Edison this weekend. More then I remember at any Starcity event.

There was at least 4 decks off the top of my head that I know were stolen. I kept my bag between my legs or on my back or in my arms while I was sitting the entire event. . .

So the best piece of advice I EVER got was from a head judge at a SCG Open. Place your backpack on the floor next to your chair and set your chair leg IN one (or both) of the straps. That way no one can grab the backpack on thier way by because it will just yank against the chair leg, instantly notifying you of what is happening. Just saying, keep it in mind next time. It's the best advice I can pass along. Everyone should know this trick. Pass it around.

[TerribleTim68]

. . .Here are a few things to remember on Recycle: . . .

And the biggest thing I forget is that part about "Max Hand Size". Don't forget that part. It actually comes into play more often than you think. Just try to play smart and play your land for the turn AFTER you get Null Profusion/Recycle into play. That's the biggest part right there. If you can hold a land, you instantly have a draw spell right there.

The things you can do with Eternal Witness and a Null Profusion/Recycle in play are just wrong.

[slikwilly]

So the best piece of advice I EVER got was from a head judge at a SCG Open. Place your backpack on the floor next to your chair and set your chair leg IN one (or both) of the straps. That way no one can grab the backpack on thier way by because it will just yank against the chair leg, instantly notifying you of what is happening. Just saying, keep it in mind next time. It's the best advice I can pass along. Everyone should know this trick. Pass it around.

This works.

My suggestions:
1) I put my backpack on the floor between my feet and have one strap looped around one of my legs. It ain't going anywhere that way, and it's not exposed to people behind or on either side of you.
2) Backback is stowed FIRST. Then I pull out playmat and/or life pad. The LAST thing to do is pull out your deck box. People have been known to snag a box while you're riffling through your bag, so don't bring it out until you're ready to shuffle.
3) When packing up after the round, stow the deck FIRST.
4) If your attention is elsewhere then your deck is in your hands. Your friend comes up to talk? You're holding your deck.
5) Don't bring a lot with you. Your deck and maybe a small trade binder. Minimize your losses should you be a victim.

[lambert101]

http://www.mtgdeckbuilder.net/Decks/ViewDeck/478686

Thoughts on the list? Trying to make punishing wish nic fit work. Got up to ten mts.

[picklock]

First post on the source. I've been lurking in this thread for a while now, figured I'd toss my list up here and see if I could get some feedback.

I've gone back and forth between nicfit bug and the classic junk colors. But however fun it was to slam a Consecrated Sphinx (Brainstorm for an answer... I BEG you), bug was only marginally better against combo so I'm currently at this:

2 Deathrite Shaman
4 Veteran Explorer
1 Sakura-Tribe Elder
1 Wall of Blossoms
1 Fierce Empath
1 Kitchen Finks
1 Eternal Witness
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
1 Thragtusk
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons
1 Yosei, the Morning Star
1 Kokusho, the Evening Star
1 Angel of Despair

4 Cabal Therapy
2 Duress
1 Pernicious Deed
1 Path to Exile
1 Innocent Blood
2 Maelstrom Pulse
2 Abrupt Decay
1 Recurring Nightmare
1 Sylvan Library
1 Sensei's Divining Top
3 Green Sun's Zenith

1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Volrath's Stronghold
3 Bayou
1 Scrubland
1 Savannah
4 Verdant Catacombs
3 Marsh Flats
3 Polluted Delta
3 Forest
2 Swamp
2 Plains


My sideboard changes frequently since my meta tends to be in flux quite a bit but I generally manage to include 4 Natural Order and a Progenitus to be able to side in a fast wincon if I'm running tight on time.

Any thoughts? Is Sun Titan just better than any of my current bombs? I haven't seen DRS show up much at all in most lists, is he too small time for the deck?

[bosoxdave]

200 pages later... The epiphany!

On the topic of Punishing Jund, I playtested against it for a good 20+ matches (3-4 hours) with Stoneblade and BGW Nic Fit. When poorly boarded, Blade Control tends to win most of the games (8 out of 9). When appropriately boarded Jund tends to beat Blade Control most of the time (8 out of 9). When Nic Fit shows up, the Jund player tends to give up completely and go home most of the time (10 out of 10). Laying down an explorer seems to be all you need to do to take down Jund. Here's the list I used:


Creatures (15)
4 Veteran Explorer
2 Wall of Blossoms
2 Eternal Witness
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Fierce Empath
1 Thragtusk
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons
1 Sun Titan
1 Grave Titan

Spells (23)
4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Cabal Therapy
3 Thoughtseize
3 Abrupt Decay
2 Vindicate

4 Pernicious Deed
3 Sensei's Divining Top

Lands (22)
1 Volrath's Stronghold
1 Phyrexian Tower
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Windswept Heath
2 Bayou
2 Savannah
1 Scrubland
3 Forest
2 Swamp
2 Plains

Sideboard (15)
1 Angel of Despair
1 Abrupt Decay
2 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Thoughtseize
2 Duress
2 Memoricide
2 Extirpate
2 Nihil Spellbomb
2 Oblivion Ring


During postboard games I would take out 3 Thoughtseize and 1 Teeg for 1 Angel, 1 Decay, and 2 Pulse.

Also, for this particular list, I am down to very detailed tweaks and would like to hear what people think about taking away the 3rd Forest in favor of the 3rd Bayou, and removing Grave Titan altogether in favor of maindeck Angel of Despair. I don't think the 3rd basic Forest is required and Bayou probably offers more consistency to the deck. Being stuck on basics forests and plains when holding Therapy and Deed can be troublesome, much more than the casual Wasteland but perhaps there is more to it. As for Grave Titan, I find him underwhelming when I have access to Thragtusk. Both creatures have similar purposes because they are both resilient, offer great value, loop well with the two towers and more. Thragtusk, however, costs less, is more accessible, survives sweepers, and gaining life is more valuable than producing chump blockers in most cases. Angel of Despair is all-around good with a valuable CiP effect, good synergy with the two towers, and a sizeable flying body which is not to be overlooked. She is also an out to SnT decks pre-board and a better Jace puncher than Grave Titan (which is what I think he was there for to begin with). Removing Titan in favor of Angel also opens up an additional SB slot.

This is almost the same as my list, with just a few changes. My primary concern is my SB. What would you bring as a SB to a large event - GP/SCG Open - while still expecting a lot of combo? I am running 4 Cabal Therapy, 2 Thoughtseize, and 1 Duress main. I haven't been able to read the whole thread so far, but I do have a couple of questions, besides the SB.

1. Why run Grave Titan over almost any other 6 drop? I personally like Armada Wurm despite its lack of synergy with Pernicious Deed, not that Grave Titan has any better synergy there. I am willing to reconsider that slot, but I really don't like Grave Titan, plus the Wurm can be GSZ'ed. Angel of Despair is reasonable, but it seems to be outmatched for its goal with Vindicates, Deeds, Pulses and Decays.

2. It seems that this deck has a great MU against Jund/other fair decks without Thoughtseize. With the ease of dealing with permanents pretty much everywhere else, wouldn't Duress work fine in that slot? It lets you save the 2 life even if it isn't too relevant and still hit combo pieces and Planeswalkers (i.e. Jace). Right now the only reason I am running the Thoughtseizes in the main is because I assume there is a logical reason that an experienced pilot of this deck has for them, I am just curious what that is.

I know that there has been a lot of discussion on this, but I really, really like Liliana of the Veil as a 1 or 2 - of in the deck. She really shines with how quickly we can get to top deck mode and forcing other players to that point seems to be always in our advantage.

FWIW I am new to the deck, though not too new to Legacy and if I missed something in the last 50 or so pages, then please forgive me. This thread and the people in it are awesome with reasoned answers which is refreshing for an online forum.

[TheArchitect]

http://www.mtgdeckbuilder.net/Decks/ViewDeck/478686

Thoughts on the list? Trying to make punishing wish nic fit work. Got up to ten mts.

I wanted it to work too. I tested this for a few hours against some of the common decks. It still shit stomps decks with lightning bolts (including the "new" URW tempo decks and jund). Still feels only a bit better than 50/50 with esper and junk, but I only played a few games against each.

List here:

25 lands - 10 mountains - 7 basics - 0 fetches ---- 61 cards total
4 Grove of the Burnwillows
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Volrath's Stronghold
2 Swamp
3 Forest
3 Mountain
3 Badlands
2 Bayou
4 Taiga
2 Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle

4 Burning Wish
4 Punishing Fire
4 Cabal Therapy
3 Pernicious Deed
4 Green Sun's Zenith
3 Sensei's Divining Top

4 Veteran Explorer
2 Sakura-Tribe Elder
1 Eternal Witness
1 Wood Elves
3 Huntmaster of the Fells
1 Scapeshift
1 Thragtusk
1 Primeval Titan

SB:
2 Extirpate
1 Innocent Blood
2 Pyroblast
1 Reanimate
1 Thoughtseize
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Perish
1 Damnation
3 Mindbreak Trap
1 Scapeshift
1 Slaughter Games

My thoughts so far:
- I miss having 2-3 fetches. Having that shuffle was nice.
- Even in just the 12-15ish games I played, In 3 I won, I would not have won if volrath's stronghold wasn't in my deck. Its still good stuff.
- 1 scapeshift maindeck, seemed fine, but I would love to go to 2 if I could justifiy cutting another card, but I already want to get down to 60.
- How was 3 punishing fires?
- I thought about, but havent tried, cutting burning wish, doing a more traditional SB and just having 3 MD scapeshifts. Might be really bad, but idk.
- I'll test this a bit more, and unless I was just having a lucky streak, I think I'll play something like this at mythic this weekend.

[Qweerios]

1. Why run Grave Titan over almost any other 6 drop? I personally like Armada Wurm despite its lack of synergy with Pernicious Deed, not that Grave Titan has any better synergy there. I am willing to reconsider that slot, but I really don't like Grave Titan, plus the Wurm can be GSZ'ed. Angel of Despair is reasonable, but it seems to be outmatched for its goal with Vindicates, Deeds, Pulses and Decays.

Grave Titan isn't part of my list anymore. In my last post I suggested cutting him in favor of Angel of Despair. As for Armada Wurm, I was really psyched about him when he was spoiled but two unprotected 5/5 bodies is really underwhelming against most decks at 6-7 mana, perhaps if they were 6/6 or 7/7. The goal of Angel isn't for its Vindicate effect, its because it is big and evasive enough to finish a game and its EtB effect generates CA. Most high-end creatures in any Nic Fit deck have a recycling effect that will generate insurmountable CA when looped (Two Towers and Recurring Nightmare mainly). Grave Titan has that but it will also apply debilitating pressure on your opponent once it starts taping. You also get your value back post Deed with an attack phase.

2. It seems that this deck has a great MU against Jund/other fair decks without Thoughtseize. With the ease of dealing with permanents pretty much everywhere else, wouldn't Duress work fine in that slot? It lets you save the 2 life even if it isn't too relevant and still hit combo pieces and Planeswalkers (i.e. Jace). Right now the only reason I am running the Thoughtseizes in the main is because I assume there is a logical reason that an experienced pilot of this deck has for them, I am just curious what that is.

Thoughtseize will always be better than Duress because it will always hit something. Losing 2 life on turn 1 to remove a card is a good trade no matter the matchup (even burn). You can look at your deck as a whole and think "Well, I can answer permanents easely so I might as well skip that aspect of my discard spells if it's going to cost me life" but the reality is that you only have a limited amount of cards in your hand, and not all of them will work. Thoughtseizing a Bloodbraid Elf is much better than removing it at any point, especialy if all you are holding is an Abrupt Decay. Also, Thoughtseize gets sided out against almost every fair decks out there, I play them maindeck as added disruption for decks that will succumb to Ooze and/or Teeg during game 1.

I know that there has been a lot of discussion on this, but I really, really like Liliana of the Veil as a 1 or 2 - of in the deck. She really shines with how quickly we can get to top deck mode and forcing other players to that point seems to be always in our advantage.

Liliana is perfectly fine. However, there are other alternatives already availlable that are equaly as good if not better (Innocent Blood, Decay, Thoughtseize/IoK). I do miss her though against NO/Prog and Control decks. She is a tricky card to begin with and I think it is so because you can play her early but you actually don't want to tick her up until topdeck mode or with a Top where the deck truly shines. Playing a fast PW, using it once, and then forgeting about it for a while is very counter-intuitive even if it may be the right way to use her. She is also very good with Sun Titan and DRS can't exile Deeds and Lilies either.

I tweaked my SB for a tournament I will attend this saturday (I am not sure about Nic Fit or Esperblade yet) and it looks like this:


1 Abrupt Decay
2 Maelstrom Pulse
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Extirpate
2 Duress
1 Thoughtseize
1 Memoricide
1 Tsunami
1 Tormod's Crypt
2 Oblivion Ring


I went for additional Surgical effects and Crypt over Nihil Spellbombs because of the new Balustrad Spy deck (I am pretty sure it scoops to extracted Moebas or poped Crypt in resp to library mill). I also took out a Memoricide for a Tsunami. The SB is calculated to replace the worthless mainboard cards for every unfair matchup. Decay and Pulses are my main Thoughtseize/Teeg replacements for fair matchups but I am seriously considering Lilies again somewhere now. Removal in the form of permanents is definitely where you want to be with Nic Fit.