I think Junk's card quality advantage and the flexibility in the builds is the biggest strengths over Jund. Jund lists are most static, with the biggest variance being PFire vs. non-PFire builds. Junk sees Stoneforge, GSZ, Lingering Souls, classic 16 creature suite, etc. There's more flexibility afforded to Junk due to being in BGW. We also have better SB options thank to White > Red in that department.
I'm getting a little bit tired of my Knights getting hit with Abrupt Decay...messing around with Sejiri Steppe again.
Brainstorm Realist
I close my eyes and sink within myself, relive the gift of precious memories, in need of a fix called innocence. - Chuck Shuldiner
When friends and I are discussing the reason why Junk is a bit underpowered, it's because we're not doing anything unfair. There's few two-for-one's. The board gets better in giving us two-for-one's, but the rest of the deck doesn't have the same amount of value-getters as most blue decks have, but that's just the way it is. At least we're valuing up with Planeswalkers, Cabal Therapy, Lingering Souls, etc.
Deed is an X-for-1, Tracker is usually X-for-1, stuff like Zealous/Charm, Jitte, etc. But these really aren't maindeckable cards, so where does that leave us? In unknown territory, perhaps. But, does that me we can just out-fair our opponents through sheer card quality, even if it is fair? Yes, since that's what we've been doing since forever.
-Matt
From the jund thread!Originally Posted by zulander
Wait till they see a mystic enforcer! lol
On a more serious note, do we just bring in the card advantage of Stoneforge Mystic again?
"eggs... why'd it have to be eggs"
That is a valid question, but I think it really depends on who we're gunning for. To beat Jund, we have to be the control deck. I think bringing in Equipment and bombs are not bad things at all, but SFM I'm not 100% sure on. Does Jund beat up Esper?
-Matt
I don't know about Esper but I've had a harder time without it (granted I'm also playing much more poorly than usual). Switching back to test.
Tinkering with some crafting theory. Here
I also noticed when AJ Kerrigan said that Junk was terrible which I and probably most people on this thread will disagree to.
Let's get this straight.. Junk isn't a deck that can be piloted by any player, I was an aggro loam player before I was a junk player. I did not like the feel of this deck but I kept playing it, losing and winning, learning the deck in and out. From what I've learned is that the deck is far way more powerful than i had expected, yes slower when compared to aggro loam type decks which are like jund, bug, rug.... tempo aggro decks. The reason I say it can't be piloted by anybody is because the deck is very very flexible and can be played in many aspects. The most powerful aspect of Junk is the tutoring ability in an aggro/control deck. It has a little bit of everything and with a little bit of everything you have to know when and what to use. It's not out of control like cascade decks and its not fast either. The deck also has basically an answer to everything "the deck with all the answers". Just remember, know when to be aggressive and take over, and know when to sit back and control the board and the hand.
Forbiddian is that you?
AJ Sacher is obviously a terrible junk player and just doesn't have any experience with the deck. I have been playing Rock for years and can win any matchup because I know my card choices and deck matchups. UW tempo... I mean rock, is the bet deck in the format when played by a competent player, especially me.
"eggs... why'd it have to be eggs"
Uh.. Nope i'm not who your thinking of...
http://starcitygames.com/events/cove...s_the_bes.html
AJ Kerrigan, mentions that junk is terrible.
Exactly! This deck in my opinion has very very good when the right player is piloting it or as you say a competent player lol... I'm always tweaking this damn deck though haha
AJ doesn't know what he's talking about.
i was running Jund last night and it's a pretty even match, but Lingering Souls breaks it open, as does Knight. Knight always ended the game, since it was always better (except when he double Bolted a summoning sick Knight) or just Wastelanded them into oblivion. Souls was so good at pressuring Liliana or just chumping in general.
Sigarda was only played once, but she ended the game 100% on her own.
Deed from the board was FINE at clearing stuff, but wasn't amazing. Better than some cards though.
Surgical never got played against Fires, but I'm bringing it in since I think it's a touch better than Cabal Therapy in this matchup. However, blind Cabal Therapies on Deathrite Shaman or Liliana are pretty great.
My board looks like this:
2 Thoughtseize
2 Pithing Needle
2 Golgari charm (could be Jitte)
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Gaddock Teeg
1 Ulvenwald Tracker (also dominates Jund if they don't have removal)
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons
2 Pernicious Deed
1 Open
What do you guys think the open slot should be? There's an upcoming tournament on Saturday, and the decks I expect to face are possibly:
1x BUG Control
1x Shardless BUG/Tempo BUG
1x Sneak and Show
2x Esperblade
1x TES/Doomsday
1x Pox
1-2x Burn
1x 43 Lands or Jund
1x Elves or Goblins
I'm thinking either Life from the Loam, Ichneumon Druid, Timely Reinforcements, Zealous Persecution, or something else. Thoughts?
-Matt
It would be nice to dust off a copy of Ichneumon Druid....
What's he for? Storm?
"Don't mess with me, lady. I've been drinking with skeletons."
I write articles about Legacy Death and Taxes. Check them out.
With 2 Needles and 2 Deeds, perhaps you could toss in an Enlightened Tutor - especially if you use a Jitte. I think as a x1 slot, you're better off with Tutor or something tutorable with GSZ, like the Druid as mentioned.
--
With the talk of Tracker, has Arena ever been tried here? I use it in Modern Rock with KotR and love it...obviously you have the Wasteland problem here in Legacy more so than Modern and it has a high mana investment (3 vs 2 on Tracker) and no direct targetting. Acts as a secondary Tracker, except it taps down opposing creatures too, but it solely tutorable with Knight. Lol at Emrakul with your Lingering Souls. As a manaless land it might be an option as opposed to Maze of Ith.
You're killing me. I've been around a long time but I did not remember Ichneumon Druid. Tag that stuff for our sanity
Is this Still your list?
Instead of the single slot, try 2 Lili and cut a Deed (I know, it doesn't do anything to burn but... that match is terrible already). That'll give you a little extra discard, extra kill for Liliana in other matches, a way to keep Combo decks at 1 card (suck it SnT), and still keeps the board control.
Tinkering with some crafting theory. Here
That's a lot of blue. Would it be terrible to play guttural response? Hits the show and tell and the ancestral vision. It doesn't do much against storm, but it could be a shocker if it hit Diminishing Returns. Of course, you'd have to clear more slots for them...
I probably wouldn't play Ichneumon Druid, as it is pretty narrow. TES doesn't really play that many instants. TES only plays Brainstorm, Ad Nauseam, Dark Ritual, Silence. Everything else are Sorceries. Postboard, Silence probably comes out.
Dont forget seedtime. EOT brainstorm this!!
"eggs... why'd it have to be eggs"
And we're back with the rest of the dreck of the format. Boo.
We've been doing well in European tournies, but not so much stateside.
-Matt
No one seemed to want to pick up Rock when Jund was the new hotness and got all of the hype.
"eggs... why'd it have to be eggs"
I mean, for those who played it in standard, to more or less played a more tricked-out version of it in legacy must seem appealing. For me, I see junk and jund as equal in power
"Don't mess with me, lady. I've been drinking with skeletons."
I write articles about Legacy Death and Taxes. Check them out.
Isn't AJ Kerrigan only like 12 years old? I could never take that guy seriously...
I have finally caved in; playing 2x Lingering Souls maindeck, along with a Jitte. I'm also switching from Sylvan Library to SDT once I get them, just so I can manipulate the top draw easier with Bobs (Library, unfortunately, triggers during the draw step.) I could do Mirri's Guile, but I think Top is the more powerful of the 2 one-mana options.
Until then, I've cut to only playing 3 Thoughtseize, 3 Hymns, and 2 Lilianas for discard in the maindeck (taking out IoK for the Lingering Souls) and dropping to 2 Libraries so I can get the Jitte maindeck.
Brainstorm Realist
I close my eyes and sink within myself, relive the gift of precious memories, in need of a fix called innocence. - Chuck Shuldiner
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