Most fair decks are a good match up for elves, showing in its recent success due to the decline of combo. The bad match ups for this deck are by far and away the combo decks that can win a turn or two faster without having to interact.Originally Posted by Capt4in
Yeah, that's basically what I figured. I knew I was lucky convincing the Show and Tell player to draw with me. He was also to be my semifinal opponent before we negotiated the split, so I got lucky there as well. It does feel weird to me that I consider Force of Will decks to be my good matchups playing a combo deck, but it does seem that way. Miracles seems pretty rough though, and it does seem to me to be the strongest argument for the white splash.
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I'm building an Elves deck... I know that the better lists now are G/B/W but for budget reasons i would like to stay mono-green until i can buy duals.
Who can give some advices on how to build an optimal mono-green list? Which are the best win conditions ? How should i build my sideboard? Thanks.
Well by removing deathrite shaman you can get rid of all the fetches and duals and replace them with forests. Shaman can be replaced with Llanowar elves and you can stick to the Natural Order --> Craterhoof wincon. As for the SB...you can put in some meekstones against RUG, 1 gaddock teeg against miracles, etc. Fighting show and tell without cabal therapy might be hard though.
Should be pretty simple to figure out just by looking at the list no? Take out fetches/duals/deathrites/B or W cards. For deathrites put in llanowars/fyndhorn, for fetches/duals put in forests. For the sb put in whatever mono green card you want. Done!
Replace DRS with llanowars and fyndhorns and fetches/duals with forests. You can run summoner's pact instead of natural order too. For the sideboard, faerie macabre + thorn of amethyst are important since you don't have black.
Hi guys!
decided to start playing this deck after the success by the three elf men: Mat Nass, Luis-Scot Vargas and Chris Anderson. The deck they play feels very powerful and has a high chance of beating the fair decks, whilst having a solid post-board plan for unfair decks.
However, I do think the deck is really hard to play. The problem is that I wants to combo way to often, rather than grinding the game out. How do you guys go about that problem? Most of those guys that pilot it to Top8's say it's aggro first, combo second. Perhaps some strategy tips?
Thanks a lot!
Question for the people that are playing this deck somewhat longer.
Show and tell is probably the weakest match-up for this deck when considering all tier 1/2 decks. Has anybody found an effective way to deal with show and tell PB or does it always remain a shaky match-up?
If you have some info on what are the key cards/plays that would be nice as well :)
Democracy is two wolves and a lamb deciding what's for lunch.
It will always remain a bit shaky, as their god-draws just trump your god-draws. You have to draw better than them and winning the die roll helps a bunch. That said, their derpy draws are way worse than yours, as your derpy draws at least give you an army of 1/1s. Post board, you want to have access to Crop Rotation in the main (I run 2) and side in a Karakas, some hand disruption, perhaps Harmonic Sliver/Qasali Pridemage, and most importantly Gaddock Teeg. Teeg shuts off their Sneak Attack and Force of Will which are arguably their most dangerous cards against us. I don't mind Show and Tell that much since it gives you at least a turn to find an answer or just go off. Sneak Attack kills you on the spot.
That's my experience anyway.
[QUOTE=danyul;703814]It will always remain a bit shaky, as their god-draws just trump your god-draws. You have to draw better than them and winning the die roll helps a bunch. That said, their derpy draws are way worse than yours, as your derpy draws at least give you an army of 1/1s. Post board, you want to have access to Crop Rotation in the main (I run 2) and side in a Karakas, some hand disruption, perhaps Harmonic Sliver/Qasali Pridemage, and most importantly Gaddock Teeg. Teeg shuts off their Sneak Attack and Force of Will which are arguably their most dangerous cards against us. I don't mind Show and Tell that much since it gives you at least a turn to find an answer or just go off. Sneak Attack kills you on the spot.[QUOTE]
I aggree with almost everything you said, except not minding S&T. A smart opponent will play S&T and land Sneak Attack with it. And that poses a BIG problem. Unless you board in Humility and can drop that off the S&T. I really hate the MU. I always feel that I'm behind and can't do anything about it.
I've always been confused as to why keep the singleton priest of titania. I've found it better to replace it with a 2nd crop rotation or a maindeck pridemage/ooze. I don't see any uses for it...
Did anyone ever test pithing needle for the sneak match-up? Resolving it seems strong to me.
As to a singleton karakas I won't do it. I refuse to play off color lands that will probably be useless anyway. I was considering cutting crop rotation anyway.
The deck can function on 1 forest (although 2-3 are ideal) and rotation is not a land by itself (thus can be replaced by another spell). The blow-outs don't compensate for the difficulties. I would consider concordant crossroads in the slot though. It functions somewhat similar (I.e. it generates tons of mana when the timing is right and it allows you not to have to pass the turn in some cases when comboing).
I'm not saying that it will just do that but I will be exploring the option to make sure :)
Democracy is two wolves and a lamb deciding what's for lunch.
The priest is insane against all the slow combo decks as well as in the mirror. Against something like 12 post or enchantress, you get to T1 mana dork, turn 2 GSZ for priest, and then almost certainly win on your next turn with all the mana you can generate with priest plus ranger or symbiote. This line is also just about the best thing you can do in the mirror other than just combing out on your turn 2.
You can't pull out the RUG from under me, CUZ I AM THE RUG!
When I spoke of the distinction between Sneak Attack and Show and Tell, I was mostly thinking of them independent of one another. If your opponent has both in hand as well as a dude to sneak in, then he just had the god-draw and you can't do too much about that.
I've used Pithing Needle in other decks with the Sneak Attack matchup in mind. It is not bad.
As far as the singleton Karakas, I think you are looking at the card from the wrong perspective. Karakas is not a land. It is a free spell that takes up a land drop. When you side it in, you are not removing lands from the maindeck. So using Karakas should in no way change your manabase or hinder your ability to play your other spells. Your use of the word "blowout" is also perhaps a bit misplaced. Topdecking a Karakas against a deck with problematic legends, even if I have no white cards in hand, is in no way a blowout. In the games where you side in Karakas, you want to see it ASAP anyway. However, tossing down a Concordant Crossroads can often be a blowout if you aren't able to combo off and win that turn. It is not uncommon to fizzle mid-combo, only to pass the turn with a medium sized squad of tapped elves. Giving your opponent free haste can be sketchy in those cases.
I was using blowout in reference to midcombo being able to rotate a tapped land out for a cradle. Karakas is seldomly a blowout against show and tell decks.
Your second point (regarding crossroads) I'm only partially following. The whole point of playing it would be not to be obliged to have to pass the turn because topdecked mana elves (think priest) are so much more relevant. If it is in your opening grip for example I would only cast it when safe (2nd turn for example, to combo turn 3 with extra mana) or in the combo turn itself. Being obliged to pass the turn with all elves tapped seems kind of rare with a playset nettle sentinel, quirion ranger and wirewood in your deck.
Democracy is two wolves and a lamb deciding what's for lunch.
Harmonic Sliver seems strictly better than Pridemage in this deck. Cursed Totem is a card, and it's not like you're swinging for the win with one creature.
I'm trying to get a bit better at playing this deck, so I'm looking for some recorded matches. Are there legacy elves players who stream on twitch.tv? Would be great!
Dunno about twitch.tv but LSV has some recorded matches at www.channelfireball.com. You can also find some featurematches from www.ggslive.com from last GP where matt nass played elves.
The above mentioned lsv videos are good, and you can always browse scg opens or what not on the tc deck video section.
Those LSV videos are great, indeed. That's just the stuff I was looking for, now I'm looking if there are more recorded videos (or streams) like that.
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