[Deck] TinFins 3: Return of the Onion Burst

[.dk]

Yet another example while the reserved list is awful...

[xfxf]

I traded 2 for my 2 Crop Rotations and 1 Veteran Explorer, the next day it's sold out in MKM and now the new listings start from 14-15 Euros. Wow.

[phazonmutant]

Koby, we might have to share credit for popularizing the deck (with CalebD of course)

Whienot placed a big order with a German retailer for some of us Atlanta folk right before the price hike and a few of us managed to snag playsets of Flaches Grab for 4 euro. Thrilled I committed to upgrading my Shallow Graves when I did!

The ebay average seems to be around $20 / card for English!

[Dela]

Went 4-0 at my local legacy tourney. 30ish people. Beat Combo elves 2-0, Junk 2-0, combo elves 2-1, Miracles 2-0. Went with pretty much the standard list, adding a scrubland and a SB of:


2 Pull from eternity
2 Chain of Vapor
1 Echoing Truth
2 Mindbreak Trap
2 Flusterstorm
3 Pithing Needle
1 Duress
2 Death Mark

Didn't really get to use the Pulls, chain and needle were great.
Deck feels very strong atm

[Richard Cheese]

Nice result! I wish we had 30 people at our locals. I'm interested to see how you boarded for those matchups. Actually, since I'm currently re-writing the primer, I'm interested to see how everyone is boarding, specifically against current/recent DTB.

[Koby]

So after playing with the SB that included S&T, I never used it successfully and the maindeck is not geared towards being able to use it. Going forward, I'm going to adding more bounce/removal (Hurkyl's and Rebuild are nice to deal with multiple Pithing Needles/Tormod's/Grafdigger's) and considering Abrupt Decay. I haven't had enough time to hash that out (nevermind that Abrupt Decay is useless vs Leyline... I digress). Locally and for me, I'm also going to add Flusterstorm/Mindbreak Trap since there's a decent amount of Storm around these parts.

[phazonmutant]

So after playing with the SB that included S&T, I never used it successfully and the maindeck is not geared towards being able to use it. Going forward, I'm going to adding more bounce/removal (Hurkyl's and Rebuild are nice to deal with multiple Pithing Needles/Tormod's/Grafdigger's) and considering Abrupt Decay. I haven't had enough time to hash that out (nevermind that Abrupt Decay is useless vs Leyline... I digress). Locally and for me, I'm also going to add Flusterstorm/Mindbreak Trap since there's a decent amount of Storm around these parts.

I've been having that same experience with S&T. At this point, the anti-hate board seems superior. Hurkyl's Recall seems like a very strong choice in the appropriate meta.

I've been testing more with the 4c list I posted the page back, and while I'm not saying I broke it, the list feels like at least as much of an improvement as adding the 2 Reanimates felt compared to the 7-out list. It's very strong, and Silence allows you to have a very powerful card against both tempo and storm, which saves board space. I really recommend you try it out.

At least in that list, the Careful Study / Ponder split has felt good. I've been happy to have both cards at different times. Still not sure if one is better than the other, but I have to agree with CalebD that Careful Study has its place in the main.

Edit: Just wanted to add that Pull from Eternity is the real deal. Played against Pox on cockatrice. He was feeling good that he was on the play and had Extirpate in hand. I put him on that because he passed with 1 B up on his first turn. I had an Entomb, Exhume, and Pull in hand, so just drew Dark Rit, eot Entombed, on my turn played a Gemstone Mine, DR, Exhume, he Extirpated, and I Pulled and very easily won.

[RaNDoMxGeSTuReS]

Can this deck play Snapcaster Mage? Probably too cute, but it sounds awesome.

[.dk]

Can this deck play Snapcaster Mage? Probably too cute, but it sounds awesome.

Funny - that was one of our original thoughts too. We tried some builds (Tin Fins 2 maybe) but they mostly ended up being too slow. I think they were in place of some of the reanimation since he would be adding redundancy. That was in a LED list, so a good bit different than the modern lists. Maybe there is room for him now? Would be interesting to see, as he could add a lot of redundancy of any of the various effects in the deck. Specifically functioning as extra Entombs would be nice.

/edit:

@phazonmuant - in the pull list, would you just be relying on bounce for RIP and Leyline and such for G2/3? What can you reasonably even board out at that point? As tight as the maindeck seems in the standard lists, that one seems even more tight.

[Koby]

I'm currently testing an actual list that might be good.
2 Chrome Mox
4 Lotus Petal
2 Children of Korlis
4 Brainstorm
4 Dark Ritual
4 Entomb
2 Silence
3 Cabal Therapy
2 Thoughtseize
1 Reanimate
2 Ponder
2 Careful Study
3 Goryo's Vengeance
4 Shallow Grave
1 Exhume
1 Tendrils of Agony
4 Griselbrand
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
4 Gemstone Mine
4 Polluted Delta
1 Marsh Flats
1 Scrubland
1 Bayou
1 Tundra
2 Underground Sea

// Sideboard
1 Pithing Needle
3 Abrupt Decay
2 Chain of Vapor
2 Pull From Eternity
1 Silence
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Massacre
2 Thougtseize

Is this your most recent list Greg?

[phazonmutant]

Funny - that was one of our original thoughts too. We tried some builds (Tin Fins 2 maybe) but they mostly ended up being too slow. I think they were in place of some of the reanimation since he would be adding redundancy. That was in a LED list, so a good bit different than the modern lists. Maybe there is room for him now? Would be interesting to see, as he could add a lot of redundancy of any of the various effects in the deck. Specifically functioning as extra Entombs would be nice.

/edit:

@phazonmuant - in the pull list, would you just be relying on bounce for RIP and Leyline and such for G2/3? What can you reasonably even board out at that point? As tight as the maindeck seems in the standard lists, that one seems even more tight.

Snapcaster sounds cool with Pull. Maybe as a better Intuition?

Yup, for decks with Leyline I bring in Chain. For RiP miracles decks I board in the 3 Abrupt Decay. I've been boarding out Reanimate if I board in Pull, Exhume otherwise, a Chrome Mox, and some combination of Griselbrand and Careful Study. I've been trying to board in only about 3 cards g2 so I don't overboard, then board more as appropriate g3.


Koby - pretty much. I miscounted, that list is only 60. I think I might swap the Thoughtseize and Cabal Therapy numbers main actually. Of course still testing the Ponder / Study / Reanimate / Exhume splits.
As far as the board, the thought for the extra discard is against attrition discard decks, but it might not be worth it. Hopefully prison decks are taken care of with Abrupt Decay, but a Hurkyl's Recall wouldn't be bad either. Same goes for Massacre.

[Holden1669]

Snapcaster sounds cool with Pull. Maybe as a better Intuition?

Yup, for decks with Leyline I bring in Chain. For RiP miracles decks I board in the 3 Abrupt Decay. I've been boarding out Reanimate if I board in Pull, Exhume otherwise, a Chrome Mox, and some combination of Griselbrand and Careful Study. I've been trying to board in only about 3 cards g2 so I don't overboard, then board more as appropriate g3.


Koby - pretty much. I miscounted, that list is only 60. I think I might swap the Thoughtseize and Cabal Therapy numbers main actually. Of course still testing the Ponder / Study / Reanimate / Exhume splits.
As far as the board, the thought for the extra discard is against attrition discard decks, but it might not be worth it. Hopefully prison decks are taken care of with Abrupt Decay, but a Hurkyl's Recall wouldn't be bad either. Same goes for Massacre.

So the green is just Abrupt Decay out of the board? Would replacing that with Wipe Away or other bounce and a return to more fetches/duals make the manabase work more smoothly? I haven't tested it out yet, just asking.

I do like the Silence + Pull From Eternity plan. That sounds very promising.

[phazonmutant]

So the green is just Abrupt Decay out of the board? Would replacing that with Wipe Away or other bounce and a return to more fetches/duals make the manabase work more smoothly? I haven't tested it out yet, just asking.

I do like the Silence + Pull From Eternity plan. That sounds very promising.

Yes, the green is just for Abrupt Decay, but I think Abrupt Decay is one of the few things that will allow us to have any shot of winning the Miracles matchup, and it also happens to be a real plan against prison. I don't think the manabase is any worse as far as casting spells (Gemstone Mine is much better than it looks), and TES manages to play through Wasteland, and I think we've gotten to a point where we're equally fast and also have plenty of artifact mana.
I don't think making UU or getting to 3 lands is going to be very consistent, so Wipe Away is pretty much not a consideration.

The reduction in shuffle effects is a real concern, but you actually have more than TES because of both more fetches and Entomb, and the idea is to just kill them before you have to draw the cards again!
But seriously, that in itself might be the reason this version is worse. More testing will tell.

[Koby]

Some thoughts:
* With less fetches, Ponder becomes more important now. It also helps navigate around more awkward draws due to the more vulnerable manabase.
* 3 Gemstone Mine and 1 Marsh Flats may be better than 4 Gemstone Mine.
* Without Careful Study, only 3 Griselbrand is needed. This opens up a slot to play 1 more discard.

Also,

[RaNDoMxGeSTuReS]

So Shallow Grave is $40? #mtgfinance

[Darkenslight]

So Shallow Grave is $40? #mtgfinance

...I'm really pissed off now, because they've gone from a £1 junk card to Wasteland prices and I only get paid next week.

[novatinhu]

...I'm really pissed off now, because they've gone from a £1 junk card to Wasteland prices and I only get paid next week.

I'm so happy, buy 12 for 3 bucks each was awesome!

[.dk]

Some thoughts:
* With less fetches, Ponder becomes more important now. It also helps navigate around more awkward draws due to the more vulnerable manabase.
* 3 Gemstone Mine and 1 Marsh Flats may be better than 4 Gemstone Mine.
* Without Careful Study, only 3 Griselbrand is needed. This opens up a slot to play 1 more discard.

Also,

How is it feeling without running basics? And if we're not running study and 4 Griselbrand, is 4 entomb feeling like enough or does the singleton intuition need exploring again?

Still debating taking a list like this one to my local tomorrow or continuing my DDFT practice...

Also - shallow grave being $40 is ridiculous. In a way I'm kind of proud I had a hand in that, but mostly - fuck the reserved list.

[dunk]

Haha. I sold my single copy like 1 month ago for 6 Euro. Now it sells for slightly less than 20 Euro. It's just the market which tries to adjust right now - the rest is on you guys. If you keep up having good results it may get close to SnT within the next year, otherwise it will probably go back to 10-15 $ each. Not the first time that I see a reserved list card go through the roof just to stabilize and go down a few months after.

Ban Griselbrand obv.

[Bobmans]

Ban Griselbrand obv.

That would break my heart.