Remove the 1pc Liliana of the Veil then change it to abrupt decay. You can also put Inquisition of Kozilek if you have maybe 2 Duress / 1 Inquisition of Kozilek. Remove the Golgari Charm and a piece of Duress Pernicious Deed can handle that, put in Surgical Extraction/Extirpate. And take note if you have carpet of flowers in play and if you drawn another carpet of flowers you can declare the triggered during 2nd main phase so that it will become more abusiveOriginally Posted by sherko7
Hi guys,
Long time lurker and few posts, but have a question about Recurring Nightmare and Yosei.
When you sac Yosei to the RN cost, in which order do Yosei's trigger and RN place ón the stack? Will Yosei or RN resolve first?
Thanks in advance
Since sacrificing Yosei is part of RN activations cost, it will hit the gy and then trigger. Only after Yosei trigger is done resolving and both players pass priority the Nightmare activation resolves.
In that explanation, you're saying you can sac Yosei to RN, then return Yosei?
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No, you have to assign targets then pay costs, which means you can't get back the creature you're sacrificing.
No.
You activate Nightmare's ability, naming a target and paying costs (saccing/bouncing) - it goes on the stack. As Yosei is sacced, its trigger goes higher on the stack. When Priority is passed, Yosei resolved, then priority is passed, and Nightmare resolves.
The key point is that Nightmare needs a legal target when activated.
(Note that the timing works out the same as with Cabal Therapy / Explorer - you cast therapy, targetting and paying costs to put it on the stack, then Explorer triggers and gets lands first)
Yeah I figured I really needed room for that 3rd Abrupt Decay main. Really tempted to put an Obstinate Baloth main though... But it's already crowded as it is.
Maybe I will try cutting 1 Liliana. It has rarely been the bomb I thought it would be during playtesting, but when its good, its great!Remove the 1pc Liliana of the Veil then change it to abrupt decay. You can also put Inquisition of Kozilek if you have maybe 2 Duress / 1 Inquisition of Kozilek. Remove the Golgari Charm and a piece of Duress Pernicious Deed can handle that, put in Surgical Extraction/Extirpate. And take note if you have carpet of flowers in play and if you drawn another carpet of flowers you can declare the triggered during 2nd main phase so that it will become more abusive
Will be doing some last minute testing today with 3 Vampire Nighthawk main deck. It seems like a good card against Jund and other aggressive decks, as well as being able to randomly poke an SnT'd fatty to death. I'm cutting DRS and Acidic Slime for it though, so they better be worth it.
I've really been surprised to not like Lily as well. The inherent card advantage and high curve of the deck frequently means the discard ability is not very exciting against fair decks, which can dump their hands faster (or I dump it for them), and the sacrifice ability is underwhelming when I already have decent removal and ways to deal with shroud guys. It seems reasonable against combo, where both abilities can be quite relevant (especially if big monsters are involved), but I'm not sure that's the best card for the job.Maybe I will try cutting 1 Liliana. It has rarely been the bomb I thought it would be during playtesting, but when its good, its great!
Will be doing some last minute testing today with 3 Vampire Nighthawk main deck. It seems like a good card against Jund and other aggressive decks, as well as being able to randomly poke an SnT'd fatty to death. I'm cutting DRS and Acidic Slime for it though, so they better be worth it.
Other perspectives?
I've found Deathrite fairly reasonable - the toolbox abilities can obviously be nice, it's a decent ramp spell when you don't have explorer (or don't want to give that particular opponent the lands), its "evasion" is very good at that point in your curve (which the common 3-5 drops lack), and the huge target on its head usually means it doesn't stick around long enough to non-bo your Deed (which an the obvious objection).
Liliana is good in BUG, because you have less other removal (no Rector/Moat, B. Wish, P. Fire) and because you can draw cards with Jace. Also Lili/Jace is a classic combo. She is unplayable in Scapewish because you can't discard anything to it (you need all your lands and spells).
In GB/w and G/B she is okay I think, good but not insane.
Attended my first ever tourney with GB Nic Fit and went 3-2... Winning 1 pack and got a Blood Crypt, lol. Entrance fee was about $5 so not bad.
Round 1: vs ANT
Just my luck. Game 1 I was on the draw and he opened with Scalding Tarn into Island and Ponder. So I assumed SnT! The dreaded matchup! Cabal Therapy for SnT and I was shocked to see all business: Past in Flames, Tendrils, Cabal Ritual, Cabal Therapy, Burning Wish and lands... Just my luck, I thought. He hit a cantrip turn 2 and I thought he was about to go off, luckily, he must have bricked so on my turn I cast Veteran Explorer, Flashback Therapy naming Burning Wish. He got additional lands apparently. I proceeded to Hymn him on the same turn and got rid of Cabal Ritual and his Cabal Therapy. Casted Thrun the next turn and he decided to go off... He Tendrils me for 14 and I was down to 5. I proceeded to hit him 7 per turn with Thrun and Treetop Village until he eventually conceded. Game 2 was a bit less interesting. I decided to keep a hand with 1 land, Therapy, Duress, SDT, GSZ and a Thragtusk I think. He Duress'd on his first turn and rid of my Duress. I Therapy, naming LED and got one! He had 2 more Therapy and some lands and I guess he decided he could slow me down while he tried assembling what he needed. Unfortunately I top deck'd more Cabal Therapies, GSZ'd Eternal Witness to get Duress, and so on until finally killing him. with I think Garruk PH.
Match: 1-0, Games: 2-0
Round 2: vs Burn
Oh how I dreaded this match up. I was against a friend and I knew what he was packing. He led with the usual Goblin Guide and I with Veteran Explorer blocking his GG on the next turn. Abrupt Decay'd his GG EoT and decided to GSZ for Ooze with 1 more mana open, eating GG who met a Lightning Bolt shortly after. I was down to 11, and threw down a Thragtusk who ate Chain Lightning. I proceeded to beat face with the Beast token with SDT in play. Unfortunately I was top decking lands and lands and another SDT with no way to shuffle :( Finally died to a double Fireblast and Flame Rift. Game 2, I just died, plain and simple, to a Grim Lavamancer, Goblin Guide and Hellspark Elemental. After the game, I talked with @kabards and he suggested I add a Kitchen Finks MD.
Match: 1-1, Games: 2-2
Round 3: vs Elves
Was playing my brother, lol. I knew everything he ran as we played a lot at home. I was glad to keep a hand with 2 Cabal Therapies and top deck'd another before proceeding to beat down with Thrun for the win. Games 2 and 3, he just combo'd off as I had kept really loose hands. We agreed to give him a sweep to increase his chances of getting to the top.
Match: 1-2, Games 3-4
Round 4: vs Manaless Dredge
I thought this was going to be the last round, and I knew what my opponent was playing. Having similar experience, I knew the deck very well and I felt very confident going into that match. G1, I was on the play, kept a hand with 1 land, and threw down a Deathrite Shaman. He proceeded to discard Stinkweed Imp. I drew a card and passed the turn, no land drop. During his draw step he asked whether I would let him Dredge, I removed the Imp but he decided to cycle Street Wraith. He had 2 more Wraiths and Gitaxian Probe in hand and that was that! G2 he kept a really slow hand with Dakmor Salvage being the only Dredger. I Therapy'd for Street Wraith but missed. A few turns later I was able to ramp up with Explorer, get an Ooze online and proceed to beat face for the win. G3 was pretty much the same but with him keeping a worse hand (no Dredger plus 2 Narcos).
Match 2-2, Games 5-5
Round 5: vs The Gate!
This match up was pretty fun. A friend of mine had a similar deck, but with Phyrexian Obliterator instead of Abyssal Persecutor and I had tested against that deck and we were about 50-50. G1 he had an extremely disrupting hand with Thoughtseize, Hymn to Tourach (binning my own Hymn!) and then I think 1 or 2 more Thoughtseizes. He then proceeded to beat me up with Abyssal Persecutor and and Liliana online. I decided to just scoop to save time. G2 I had a pretty good hand with Therapy, Vet Explorer, 2 lands plus Treetop Village and GSZ plus something. I blind Therapy for Thoughtseize, hitting none while he top decked the Thoughtseize. The game went on as he stalled me with Dystopia while I was beating him with Treetop Village. I was able to grab a Pernicious Deed while my Garruk PH was stalling his Dystopia, game over. G3, I had a great hand with ramp, DRS and disruption. His double Abyssal Persecutors died to a Pernicious Deed without even getting 1 swing. Volrath's Stronghold and Eternal Witness were the tag team here, recurring Maelstrom Pulses and Abrupt Decays turn and turn again. He had to keep killing the Witness as he was trying to protect his Liliana. Finally, game ended with Treetop Village and Grave Titan beatdown.
Match 3-2, Games 7-6
Not bad for my first tourney with Nic Fit! I really needed a Diabolic Intent but the guy I was buying it from didn't push through so I decided to sub Liliana in. I am not impressed with Lili in the deck, she's good, but probably not with the GB build. Another guy I am not really impressed with at the moment is Grave Titan. Yes, he is huge, kills Planeswalkers, etc... But Prime Time does the same more often than not. I might put in a Kitchen Finks in his place and give it a shot. Kitchen Finks buys me time against the more agressive decks, plus its a warm body for Cabal Therapy! Also, as @kabards suggested to me, I really needed another 3 drop to GSZ (I only had 2 Eternal Witness and true enough, more often than not there are times where I don't need to nab a card from my GY).
Lovin this!
I really like Kitchen Finks in this deck. I wish I could fit it in Rector. It provides a lot of card advantage with the sad outlets and it is really good against aggressive decks and burn.
I seen someone talk about cutting memoricide, I think I will do the same. I can never get it early enough to use of when I want it. I think I will add thoughtseize back.
Abrupt decay in the SB has been amazing for me lately. And I haven't missed extirpate.
I have been playing around with Restoration Angel because I need a 4 drop. Running 2 Baneslayers is good but too often I get stuck at 4 lands. I want it to be Ifh-Biff but I don't have one right now. Thrun MD has been amazing.
Well that's all the notes I have. I might start playing more often since we now have legacy 2x a week.
I might consider Obstinate Baloth instead of Kitchen Finks if you're having aggro troubles and there are that many Hymn to Tourach decks in your metagame. I also can't recommend 1x Sakura-Tribe Elder highly enough, he does a lot of work as a guaranteed secondary ramp source that can be a Therapy body, blocks, and gets you to your Thragtusks which should usually be enough to get you there.
Have you posted an updated list recently, CRich?
Thing is, every time I GSZ for 4 I would almost always want a Thrun, but whenever I GSZ for 3 I would sometimes not need to get something from my yard. :)
In that case I recommend you just Zenith for an Ooze plus an activation, get a two-drop plus top activation, etc; I have been playing 2x Thragtusk as my gaining life card and it's been good, although I guess Finks is really good against decks like Jund in addition to just being a roadblock against aggro, so maybe it's worth another look.
Obstinate Baloth and Kitchen Finks serve the same purpose but against burn that 1 mana matters. Also against DRS you can make your opponent use him early for rector. I have more Jund than fast decks so I'm sticking with the Baloth.
I posted a list a while back. Before SCG cincy.
My current BUG Fit List:
14 Green Sun's Zenith Targets
1 Dryad Arbor
4 Veteran Explorer
2 Sakura Tribe-Elder
1 Scavenging Ooze
2 Eternal Witness
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
2 Thragtusk
1 Primeval Titan
4 Alternative Win-Cons
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor[/u]
1 Batterskull
9 Utility Spells
4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Brainstorm
1 Diabolic Intent
11 Removal and Disruption
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Pernicious Deed
2 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Golgari Charm
3 Utility Lands/PrimeTime Targets
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Volrath's Stronghold
1 Creeping Tar Pit
8 Fetches
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Duals
2 Bayou
2 Tropical Island
7 Basics
3 Forest
1 Swamp
3 Island
15 Sideboard
4 Force of Will
3 Negate
1 Counterspell
3 Carpet of Flowers
2 Leyline of the Void
2 Leyline of Sanctity
Thoughts:
-Dryad Arbor: I honestly believe this land creature makes up for the fact Deed kills it. In fact, it pretty much exists to eat removal (land and creature) or to chump block when Vet isn't around.
-Sakura-Tribe Elder: As opposed to Dryad Arbor, Deathrite Shaman never did much in my original list, hence the swap to STE.
-Jace, the Mind Sculptor: No reason not to run 3. Actually also helps to enable a transformational sideboard against combo (i.e. blue count too low before).
-Golgari Charm: Between all the X/1 utility creatures/swarms, expensive enchantments that could ruin my strategy, and the lack of a "can't be regen" clause on Deed, Golgari Charm pulls a lot more weight than Damnation, even if it overlaps A LOT with Maelstrom Pulse and Pernicious Deed.
-Counterspells: The only real defense against Show and Tell decks that run Leyline of Sanctity is to counter their Show and Tell. Not too sold on the 4-3-1 split though.
So, a funny anecdote for you guys from GP Charlotte. I entered a win-a-box on Sunday morning with Rector. Round 1 is vs Belcher. He drops Belcher on t1, but only has a Taiga as a mana source. His hand (which I know from Land Grant) is Belcher #2 + Chrome Mox (with nothing to imprint). My turn is Explorer pass / pray-you-don't-draw-a-LED. He bricks his draw and ships back.
I go Tower -> sac Explorer -> Therapy you naming Belcher (see Desperate Ritual + Chrome Mox), Fetters your Belcher.
He looked annoyed, and then like 4 turns later I killed him with Baneslayer.
I board in the Chalices, the Sanctities, the Mindbreaks, the Nether Void, and the Cranial twins. I mull to FOUR in game two without hitting any of the above -or- a Therapy (14 possible cards that I could have hit in my 7, 6, 5, or 4). I accept that I'm dead and keep land, land, Tribe-Elder, Top -- which isn't a horrible keep because I have a respectable chance of hitting a Deed or topping into Mindbreak. He durdles for a turn or two, I fail to draw anything / find anything with Top, and then he flips his deck. Pretty standard.
Game three I keep my hand of Sanctity, Green Sun, Explorer, Rector, land, land. I lead with Explorer, he leads with 16 goblins. I Zenith up Rusalka and pass. He puts me to 5 after I block one token with Explorer, which nets me two lands, giving me four in play with none in hand. I rip Savannah off the top, slam Rector and pass her through Rusalka to deed for 0. He doesn't recover enough to do anything to me before I kill him.
Beating Belcher with 0 effective sideboard cards is fun!
Then round 2 I played against Elves, and failed to draw a Deed, a Rector, the Moat, or any of my sideboard cards with a Top+shuffles going the whole time across both games. So frustrating. My opponent actually literally couldn't have played looser. There were multiple turns where I was just dead on board and he simply didn't kill me. My deck just decided that it didn't feel like winning =/
Looked like it was going to be High Tide in the finals, too, which would have been an easy win =/ Sad times.
In happier news, I picked up my last two Jap foil Therapies finally, and also found a Jap foil Maelstrom Pulse. Along with my now signed-in-silver Gurus, Rector's looking quite pretty =D One of these days I'll have to take more pictures of her to put up in the pimp thread. I'm currently at 41/61 maindeck that are final-pimped (aside from artist signatures). 6 of those are going to take approximately forever to find/acquire (the Tops and Heaths). The other 14 shouldn't be insanely hard, though....hell, two of them are "easy" -- the Baneslayers.
Finally, I'll have a new BUG list for you guys to look at sometime in the next day or two. One of my friends gave me the core idea for it, and I begrudgingly built it in the car on the way down. I was really unsure about it, but the more I thought about it, the more I realized that it's actually probably/possibly quite good, because unlike the other BUG versions, it functions via creatures. It involves a 6-drop mono-blue creature that's legal in standard right now. I'll let you guys take some guesses while I reconstruct the list from my memory. I will also note that he did manage to go 3-1 in the Legacy Challenge with it on Saturday night.
I'm interested, and guessing it's either the new sphinx (unlikely) or DeadEye Navigator.
Keep us updated!
Got it in one! It's a Deadeye list =) I'm working on re-building it now (I derped and gave him the list and didn't keep a copy for myself). I'll post it up when I'm done.
I too was at GP Charlotte, but playing Rock. I went 2-1-1 in the Legacy Challenge on Saturday and played Modern on Sunday, but I did see a guy playing BUG Fit. Didn't get to watch when he was next to me, but I saw Therapies and Explorers.
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