Originally Posted by OneBigSquirrelGod
I disagree with almost everything you say here.
What are you basing this on? Nethervoid costs 4, and its black. And how many decks that run decay, do we want trinisphere against anyway?
What 2 critters, aside from DRS do you want the totem for? Elves and Griselbrand activation? I dont think this is the time for it.
cutting crucible is questionable, i would at least play in the board, for those obvious times when you want to take out some loam/intuition deals.
While I agree that Nether Void doesn't seem insane, Storm does board into decay which is pretty relevant against trinisphere.
I really like nether void... i used to play it long time ago, but is a 4cmc card.... considering 3phere is already slow i think nether void would be almost irrelevant and lost by that turn
Spells 24
4 Life from the Loam
4 Exploration
3 Intuition
3 Punishing Fire
1 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Zuran Orb
2 Engineered Explosives
4 Mox Diamond
2 Manabond
Lands 36
4 Wasteland
4 Rishadan Port
4 Grove of the Burnwillows
3 Maze of Ith
3 Tropical Island
3 Tolaria West
3 Misty Rainforest
2 Tranquil Thicket
1 Taiga
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Creeping Tar Pit
1 Bayou
1 Forest
1 Glacial Chasm
1 Karakas
1 Academy Ruins
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
Sideboard
1 Oblivion Stone
2 Krosan Grip
2 Trinisphere
4 Dark Confidant
1 Crucible of Worlds
4 Chalice of the Void
1 Cursed Totem
This is my list as of now. I am a bit unsure of running just three fetches, but i would rather stay at 60 cards, than 61. I want the Bojuka Bog main as it's a nice answer to have against certain decks. On the issue of not having a Crucible in the main deck, i find that the card is at it's best when you're trying to ghost quarter someone out of the game. I believe it's just not necessary, but if i was to add a 61st card to the deck, it would be the crucible. If i were to do so, then my 15th Sideboard card would be another Ensnaring Bridge, it's very good against Sneak Show and other aggro decks, so it's nice to have a second one as i don't have the Enlightened Tutor. I also have some reservations as to whether or not cursed totem is a necessary sideboard card. Yes it stops DRS and Elves. But i'm already playing the card that kills that. I guess you also stop Qasali Pridemage, but i can't see the huge relevance in that. Also; if one puts Crucible in the deck, and you remove the cursed totem, you could switch Bojuka Bog with Urborg and have the Raven's Crime and the Bojuka Bog in the sideboard.
The thing with DRS is that they can just sit and play cantrips their entire game until you die from their Deathrites, and they have answers to all of your permanents like Sylvan, so i'm not a fan of fighting DRS with these types of cards. I'm going to GP Strasbourg, and i think it's going to be quite infested with DRS and Jaces, which i do like having Punishing Fire for :D.
Anyone have any comments? Or if you don't like Punishing Fire, give me a good option for beating DRS. Cabal Pit and double Engineered Explosives, is it enough? I don't want everyone to feel like they are beating a dead horse, but i haven't seen any really convincing arguments for a Enlightened Tutor build that still beats DRS :).
If you are going to play lands then Punishing Fires seems like an auto include at the moment.
Kills most commonly played creatures except for Gofy; it kills DRS, Delver, Bloodbraid Elf, anything tribal, Bob, Stoneforge Mystic, Grim Lavamancer, and sometimes Ooze.
It also can slow down a ramping Jace.
The only reason I can see for not running it is that the card can cause this deck to be further dependent on the Graveyard. Even if Punishing Fires gets extracted it still kills annoying creatures.
The argument with Punishing Fires adding another element of graveyard dependence can be formulated the other way around, too. Punishing Fire helps overloading opposing graveyard hate. I was having a game the other day, in which my Crucible got Thoughtseized and then removed by Relic, my Loams got Extirpated, but Punishing Fires – which is Extirpate-proof by the way, if you play careful (Grove is a mana ability) – still won, blanking a lot of his cards and doubling as the kill.
(But I guess if the hate was Leyline or RIP this would not have happened.)
Last edited by Serbitar; 02-18-2013 at 05:07 PM.
With or without punishing fires, they are going to use GY hate on G2, so I dont see what are you people whinning about. You need some on MD to keep DRS out of the game.
what do you think about 4 Sphere of resistence in maindeck? i understand, that sphere cant stop shaman. But we can try to put stage(new land from GateCrash) to copy ports and try to play in hard mana denial game
byes are for girls!
havent tested this.
I know you love lands, as much as me - have you tested it yourself?
yeah, i tested a lot. they can solve a lot of problems. i like to play thespian's stage in this list to copy Ports, or wastelands. But unfortunately spheres cant solve shaman problem. if we lost dice a and the begin with turn 1 shaman, only pithing needle and totem can help. and Explosives. but using spheres we dont have an opportunity to find this cards quickly, because we want to strt with sphere on turn 1
so. i am in big depression =((( about all this problems
byes are for girls!
Hi,
first of all, i am new to the forum (as a member not as a reader) but not new to Legacy as a format or lands in particular and most important i am a Landslover.
I was playing an E.Tutor/Intuition Variant for a while now but the raising of BUG gave me some headache and the Fires/Willows tech seems like exactly what the deck was needing right now. So im asking myself if we add red for the fires why not giving Gamble another Chance. the only reason for playing tutor over gamble in my opinion was the consistensy in finding exploration/bond but now that white is excluded i think Gamble deserves a try out.
(i havent read the whole thread so i am sorry if this topic was allready exhaustingly discussed.)
gamble is just so horrible - and you dont need to cut white, just because you add red, if you dont want to.
greed is good.
Well people keep saying that (including myself) but five colors are just to much even for THE Lands deck.
As for Gamble, i think its better than you give it credit for, in this deck it finds you everything mostly without drawback. Most of the time it finds loam, but if you have loam it can find any land, if you have acadamy ruins it finds any artifact, if you have grove but not fires it finds you that as well. It allways finds the missing piece. And if you are in desperate need of something you cant recur somehow, like exploration for example, you can at least gamble to get it.
In other words, in this deck it isnt worse than e.tutor it just deos something else and when there was no real other reason to play red i slightly favored e.tuor but now with fires its a whole diffrent story.
I guess the question with Gamble in the Punishing Fires lists is basically: Are you going to cut Intuition for it (because since you are running Fires, there is nothing else to cut)? Intuition is obviously more powerful, albeit slower. Gamble is the better as straight Loams 5-8, I think, but Intuition is more versatile in that it is the less awkward tutor for Exploration. Personally, I cannot really see myself cutting Intuition for Gamble.
Maybe it could be possible to only run 3/3 fires and grove and 2 gamble that basicly work as any card we want.
thats exactly what i was thinking, but i cutted crucible and the fourth fire for 2 gambles. the fourth grove is a taiga in my list. i would test it more but since cockatrice is down and mws sucks, i need some time to evaluate.
Hi guys,
This is the version I currently playing:
Spells
2 Enlightened tutor
3 Punishing fire
4 Lfe from the loam
3 Intuition
1 Manabond
4 Exploration
1 Zuran orb
4 Mox diamond
1 Engineered explosives
1 Cursed totem
1 Ensnaring bridge
1 Crucible of worlds
Lands
4 Maze of ith
4 Rishadan port
4 Wasteland
3 Tropical island
1 Taiga
1 Savannah
1 Windswept heath
1 Wooded foothills
1 Verdant catacombs
3 Tolaria west
3 Grove of the Burnwillows
2 Tranquil Thicket
1 Stirring wildwood
1 Glacial chasm
1 Ghost quarter
1 The tabernacle at pendrell vale
1 Karakas
1 Academy ruins
1 Forest
Sideboard
4 Geist of saint traft
1 Tormod's crypt
1 Enginnered explosives
1 Chalice of the void
1 Pithing needle
1 Oblivion stone
2 Trinisphere
2 Enlightened tutor
1 Aegis of honor
1 Karmic justice
I prefer run white than black, because I run tutors and bob is a great card, but the field has lots decays, so I prefer geist.
I'm happy with this version, because I can handle with the shamans and jaces.
any thoughts?
Geists are a interesting sideboard tech because they are definitly suprising and can probably win games out of nowhere, but they don´t synergise with the deck gameplan, they are for tempo or aggro strategys. While we play as super slow grindy controle/prison deck where card advantage is everything and thats the reason i´ll allways prefere Dark Confident. But the most important reason for me to play black is creeping tar it, that green white manland is just no proper replacement as a wincon, and im not sure we can rely entirely on the fires.
Not sure if cutting Crucible is right, though it is significantly weaker in "Enlightened Tutor"-less versions in my opinion. So it could be the right call.
Why no Pithing Needle? I have never played this deck but I think it's really cool and I have been reading the thread for while. Needle shuts down shaman and Jace along with Other random things.
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