[Deck] Elves Combo

[nudon]

The deck doesn't even use black Game 1. Black is barely relevant unless you get a matchup where you need discard or Decay, and Decay can be replaced with Krosan Grip in most cases. I'd say mono-green or GW isn't far off in power level as long as you run fetches and Deathrite to help with the Reanimator and Dredge matchups.

Actually, deathrite shaman can counter snapcaster mage, lingering souls, and other flashback cards while shrinking goyf/mongoose. It also provides a faster clock for you when the games go long. Though black is primarily for cabal therapy and decay, those matchups are the ones that matter most since we're an underdog. Though k-grip is a nice alternative for mono-green lists, it's still slightly slower than decay. If you're already running fetches and deathrites, why not run at least overgrown tomb and temple garden? It's not much more and are just as good as bayou and savannah against control and combo.

[lordofthepit]

Though k-grip is a nice alternative for mono-green lists, it's still slightly slower than decay. If you're already running fetches and deathrites, why not run at least overgrown tomb and temple garden? It's not much more and are just as good as bayou and savannah against control and combo.

Super awkward with Quirion Ranger. Whether or not it's worth splashing will depend on your metagame.

[.Ix]

Actually, deathrite shaman can counter snapcaster mage, lingering souls, and other flashback cards while shrinking goyf/mongoose. It also provides a faster clock for you when the games go long. Though black is primarily for cabal therapy and decay, those matchups are the ones that matter most since we're an underdog. Though k-grip is a nice alternative for mono-green lists, it's still slightly slower than decay. If you're already running fetches and deathrites, why not run at least overgrown tomb and temple garden? It's not much more and are just as good as bayou and savannah against control and combo.

Yeah that's all pretty obvious. I'm running BG Elves myself and I would recommend it. I'm just saying Mr. Froggy will do fine with GW if he were to build it.

@lordofthepit:

Good catch on Quirion Ranger.

[nudon]

Yeah that's all pretty obvious. I'm running BG Elves myself and I would recommend it. I'm just saying Mr. Froggy will do fine with GW if he were to build it.

@lordofthepit:

Good catch on Quirion Ranger.

In that case, I totally agree. I was playing mono-green for awhile due to budget (just got my bayou, savannah, deathrites, NO, etc.) and did just fine without the black splash. Yeah nice catch with ranger, I didn't realize that since I figured I'd be getting the bayou/savannah regardless. :)

[Mr. Froggy]

Is this SB any good? It's a WIP, though.


1x Teeg
2x Thorn
1x Thalia
3x Faerie Macabre
1x Relic
1x Pridemage
(And the rest I'm still tinkering with)

Meta: ANT, S'n'T, Dredge, Stoneblade, Turbo Eldrazi, Tempo

[nudon]

Is this SB any good? It's a WIP, though.


1x Teeg
2x Thorn
1x Thalia
3x Faerie Macabre
1x Relic
1x Pridemage
(And the rest I'm still tinkering with)

Meta: ANT, S'n'T, Dredge, Stoneblade, Turbo Eldrazi, Tempo

For GW elves, your choices seem fine so far but I would recommend more combo hate since 4/6 decks you mentioned are combo decks. Also, thorn/thalia aren't that great against show and tell/turbo eldrazi so you might want to try humility.

[Mr. Froggy]

There are more diverse decks, but those are the most common ones.

So:

3x Thorn
2x Oblivion Ring
1x Thalia
3x Faerie Macabre
1x Relic
1x Pridemage
1x Gaddock Teeg
The rest I'm not sure yet

[lambert101]

so any thoughts on the correct number of cradles vs. crop rotations? Currently I am testing 2 of each and has been ok. I like the small crop rotation package in side board. Current list is LSV's latest from channel fireball videos...that man is a master of the wood's people.

current board:
1 Karakas
1 Bojuka bog
1 Crop Rotation
3 Abrupt Decay
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Oblivion Ring
1 Harmonic Sliver
2 Thoughtseize
2 Cabal Therapy
1 Natural Order
1 Progenitus

please feel free to comment

[nudon]

There are more diverse decks, but those are the most common ones.

So:

3x Thorn
2x Oblivion Ring
1x Thalia
3x Faerie Macabre
1x Relic
1x Pridemage
1x Gaddock Teeg
The rest I'm not sure yet

Seems reasonable. You might want to add 2 mindbreak traps with your remaining spots if ANT is part of your meta. You want to be able to interact before turn 2.

so any thoughts on the correct number of cradles vs. crop rotations? Currently I am testing 2 of each and has been ok. I like the small crop rotation package in side board. Current list is LSV's latest from channel fireball videos...that man is a master of the wood's people.

current board:
1 Karakas
1 Bojuka bog
1 Crop Rotation
3 Abrupt Decay
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Oblivion Ring
1 Harmonic Sliver
2 Thoughtseize
2 Cabal Therapy
1 Natural Order
1 Progenitus

please feel free to comment

I'm running a 2-2 cradle/rotation split as well and it works great for me. My main deck also has a horizon canopy to maximize the effectiveness of rotation. There are times when getting the extra card is the best play. How's the 3rd rotation off the sb work for you? The only glaring omission I see is no gaddock teeg.

[Mr. Froggy]

Also, would Rest In Peace be a good replacement for Faerie Macabre?

EDIT: Is Emrakul still a viable win condition for Elves?

[.Ix]

Emrakul is viable, but inferior to the other finishers Elves uses. Running Emrakul means you have an 11.67% chance of drawing a useless card in your opener, which to me is pretty huge considering you could be having 0% instead when running practically anything else. Ezuri, Mirror Entity, and Craterhoof all do the same thing really, which is straight up kill the enemy with tons of mana available, but they all are pretty useful and/or are much easier to cast.

[lambert101]

Thinking about cutting the 3rd decay for teeg...in my board. Thoughts?

[Mr. Froggy]

It's true that on MTGO, with Entity, I could just beatdown my opponent with a bunch of 3/3s 4/4s or 5/5s. I found it helps grind out games as well, and makes chump blocking a lot more interesting.

I once played a game and it was against some sort of control (I can't recall which one), and I killed him by making maybe 3-4 Elves 3/3s with Entity for a couple of turns.

Also, since I don't feel like spending $100 on a Savannah (yet), I can run Temple Garden (that's what I do on MTGO) and it hasn't hindered me that much yet.

[Reagens]

If I would be going to a tournament today I would not consider running mindbreak trap as a combo hate card.
Simply too many combo decks bypass the card (every show and tell and reanimate deck for example) and it's value can be very circumstantial. Also when expected (i.e. game 3) it loses a ton of value.
Instead we can run more effective gy hatred or emrakul hate. Both strategies seem more relevant in today's metagame.

[nudon]

Thinking about cutting the 3rd decay for teeg...in my board. Thoughts?

I think it's a smart move since it turns 4x gsz's into 4 hate pieces. How does the 3rd rotation in the sb work for you? I'm curious since I run 2/2 main deck split as well.

If I would be going to a tournament today I would not consider running mindbreak trap as a combo hate card.
Simply too many combo decks bypass the card (every show and tell and reanimate deck for example) and it's value can be very circumstantial. Also when expected (i.e. game 3) it loses a ton of value.
Instead we can run more effective gy hatred or emrakul hate. Both strategies seem more relevant in today's metagame.

I wouldn't board mindbreak trap in against SnT and reanimator either. However, I recommended trap as a dedicated answer to Mr. Froggy since he's not running black and doesn't have access to cabal therapy. Thorns may not be fast enough when waiting until turn 2 (especially on the draw) so I think traps serve as a nice complement next to thorns/thalia. He said ANT was a big part of his meta-game.

[lambert101]

@ sideboard plans
3rd roataion has been meh to omg amazing. I bring it in against show and tell.dec mostly to find karakas. Recently thought about cutting it for another discard spell/Thorn of Amethyst.

Possible board change with 2 cradle/ 2 crop rotation split

1 Natural Order
1 Progen.
1 Dryad Arbor
2 Abrupt Decay
1 Teeg
1 O-ring
2 Thorn of Amethyst
2 Thoughtseize
2 Cabal Therapy
1 Karakas
1 Bajuka Bog

Thoughts are with 2 rotation main, karkas and bog have "3" copies. Also thinking about cutting a fetch to add a second forest so list would look like:

4 Verdant catacombs
3 Wooded Foothills
2 Windswept Heath
2 Forest
2 Bayou
1 Savanah
2 G. Cradle
1 Dryad Arbor

4 Deathrite
4 Heritage Druid
4 Quirion Ranger
4 Elvish Visonary
4 Wirewood Symbiote
4 Nettle Sentenel
1 Craterhoof
1 Regal Force
1 Lanalwor Elf
1 Birchlore Rangers
1 Fyndhorn Elf
1 Priestess

4 GSZ
4 Glimpse of Nature
3 Natural Order
2 Crop Rotation

I am even thinking about cutting the 4th Q Ranger for a Mirror Entity. Sorry for grammer typing this in the back of class

[Zombie]

O-Ring instead of Pridemage or Sliver in the board seems suspect.

[nudon]

O-Ring instead of Pridemage or Sliver in the board seems suspect.

Agreed. You need one or the other since you have so many tutors.

[TraxDaMax]

Sorry if it has been answered already, but what are the advantages of playing Natural Order instead of just playing Mirror Entity? I can imagine the miracle matchup getting better, but I haven't seen that deck in a long time.

[.Ix]

A lot of decks right now are running discard, and that's really bad for setting up Glimpse of Nature combo turns. Natural Order gives the deck a two-card combo which is much easier to draw into than Glimpse + creatures.