[Deck] Nic Fit (GBx Explorer Zenith Control)

[Arianrhod]

That 12-post game sounds insane.

How have you been liking the Avenger? It sounds like it won a few games. Is it better than a second Prime Time, or some other big threat? I like the shaving of Tribe-Elders, Promise of Power is a really interesting choice that more like a meta-call than anything, did it perform?

Avenger has been fine so far. My only complaint with him is that I have to actually try to remember to sandbag a land-drop in hand for him, but that's a problem with playstyle, not with the card. Primeval Titan actually lacks a little when quickly killing someone late game. Avenger rarely gives your opponent more than 1 turn before they're dead. As compared to a 2nd Primeval....I feel that the 2nd Titan would be better if we had more utility lands for him to fetch. If you hit a 2nd Titan and your opponent isn't just dead to Valakut, something has gone seriously wrong. Meaning that if they have like a Leyline out, or something else that's stopping the Valakut kill, the 2nd Titan would be useless. I'd rather diversify the threat base. Additionally, if your Valakuts get Wasted or some such, Avenger means you still have a legit use for Scapeshift other than just thinning your deck.

2 Tribe-Elders felt perfect to me. I would not want the 3rd back -- that was too much. As for Promise of Power....I didn't get to resolve it once on the day. I saw it twice, IIRC, and it got snap-countered both times. Oh, wait, there was a third time -- where I didn't have the triple black to cast it =(

I mean, in theory it's a solid choice. Giving a hard ramp deck like Scapewish a draw-5 seems nutty. At the same time, triple black is a bit rough unless you're looking for it specifically -- though I didn't have any issues when I was just goldfishing the slot Friday night to experiment with the mana base. I think that the best thing I can say about the Promise slot is that it's experimental, and that if Wizards prints something that is obviously better / needs tested, the Promise slot will be the very first thing to cut to test out the new toy. Until Dragon's Maze, though, it'll be on evaluation notice. We'll see how it does going forward.

[MrIggins]

I've been playing around with the Scapewish deck (getting really close to being able to play it at an event soon, just 2 cards short) and I definitely felt 3 Elders was too many.

If you want a draw spell like that, is Ancient Craving reasonable? Obviously it's less powerful, but it's also WAY more castable by our deck without fetchlands.

I can see what you mean about Titan being a relatively slow kill. I'll try out the Avenger.

[Greenpoe]

Necrologia might be a better choice than Promise of Power, especially since Scapewish can happily run 2 Thragtusk and 3 Huntmaster, that's a lot of life to gain & a lot of cards to draw without the BBB cost of Promise.

[i_wish_i_had_money_cards]

Necrologia might be a better choice than Promise of Power, especially since Scapewish can happily run 2 Thragtusk and 3 Huntmaster, that's a lot of life to gain & a lot of cards to draw without the BBB cost of Promise.

That card actually looks pretty sweet. Other pros: 1) it's about 50 cents, 2) it comes in Exodus. Hmm....

Edit: ...It's like a one shot Necro...

[Star|Scream]

Necrologia might be a better choice than Promise of Power, especially since Scapewish can happily run 2 Thragtusk and 3 Huntmaster, that's a lot of life to gain & a lot of cards to draw without the BBB cost of Promise.

Since this is a sorcery-speed deck I'm concerned about the end step clause of Necrologia. Most of the time when you cast Promise of power you will have more than 5 lands out, so you *should* be able to play some of what you draw immediately.

I got to live the dream of casting Promise in legacy against u/w stoneblade last night on MWS. He's got a Jace, Batterskull, Jitte, SFM, and Snapcaster out against my empty board. I drop an avenger with a land drop and he supreme verdicts (mistake?) I get a deed to resolve and take out his batterskull and jitte (he only left 2 lands open and couldn't bounce batterskull. Mistake?) I get the promise to resolve at 8 life and go to 3. I pass the turn, and he flashes in a snapcaster, casts another jitte, and attacks for 2.

My turn I'm at 1 life and he's at 36 with 2 jitte counters. I cast a feeler top to bait a counterspell. It resolves. I cast burning wish. It resolves. I cast scapeshift with 2 valakuts already out. It resolves. I grab 8 mountains for (if I'm multiplying correctly) 48 damage.

[drfontaine]

Devastation FIT!

3 Veteran Explorer
4 Cabal Therapy
3 Spellstutter Sprite
4 Brainstorm
4 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
4 Sensei's Divining Top

4 Devastation Tide
3 Living Wish
4 Counterbalance
4 Force of Will
2 Vedalken Shackles

1 Bayou
5 Island
2 Forest
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Polluted Delta
2 Verdant Catacombs
1 Underground Sea
1 Tropical Island
1 Swamp

SB: 1 Karakas
SB: 2 Surgical Extraction
SB: 2 Pernicious Deed
SB: 1 Magus of the Future
SB: 1 Veteran Explorer
SB: 1 Engineered Plague
SB: 1 Glen Elendra Archmage
SB: 3 Rapid Hybridization
SB: 1 Thrun, the Last Troll
SB: 2 Pithing Needle

Figured id post my latest experiment for those whos intrested ;) Although it's becoming a very different take on a regular nic fit list i suppose it's still pretty similair shell so figured i'd post in this thread anyways, and especially since most ideas came from this thread and from alot of playtest with the recent deadye list.

Perhpas most of you will instantly dismiss it considering it includes devTide and RapidHybridization in SB ;).

I figure i'd need to play more vs different tempo and midrange decks since they pose the greatest threat to this list. I have however played lots vs Jund lists where results been quite even, i've had amazing results vs the control deck to beat atm IE helm/rip miracle, and vs the common combo decks its exceptional except from mayb show/tell where it seems to be somewhat disadvantage. These are among the decks i've played lots of games vs.

I'd figure id just post some general experiences i've had with the deck.

Tide in opposing player end step is such a strong move since you can lock down their hand with ur CB/top in your turn, with the extra benefit of cabal synergy for their greatest threat, this i've found to be especially gamebreaking in CB/top mirrors where you can return his lock and lock him down with your own, simply winning the game ;). Living wish for elendra is also simply WIN in lots of control mirrors, just as shes complete win if you manage to delay combo decks long enough which aint superhard with 4 force/cb/cabal(sometimes also spellstutter ;)) and with veteran mana is not always that much of an issue ;) Bouncing her for infinite counters vs noncreatures unless they can prevent GY via jace/tide is complete lockdown. Magus of the future has also made huge impact with his apperarance in some matchups, and with the protection from cb/top he simply wins!

The thing with Tide compared to terminus is that it does not restrain ur mana, it pitches to force which is absolutely huge considering miracle cards tend to clunk your hand, and it just has a really broad use and with this deck synergizes so well with both cabal and CB, on top of it it also increases bluecount which is a neverending issue ). The same reasoning goes for rapidhybridization :) its a blue card, no constrains on mana, and the token is easilly handled by either Tide or deed. In some matchups aggro decks also really tend to avoid hitting ur explorer, IE decks including Confidant, in these cases in order to get some value of the token they have to attack with it into explorer which is exactly what you want to activate your best answer to creature decks, Vedalken Shackles.


Thrun however i never really wished for as much and i'm uncertain of his slot in SB, perhaps i'd rather play with Abyssal persectuor as a way to slow down creaturedecks, also costing GG is annoying when whishing is another G mana. The deck still needs more testing vs Tempo and this is where i'd like to find another spot in my wishboard for, altough sideboard is really anticreature/tempo.

Another fear for the deck is it's way of handling manlands :/. I hvnt still had the opportunity to playtest vs various manland decks like bugstill or simply uwlands, perhaps i need to find a better solution vs those decks. Although CB at least is a huge counter to loam :).

Conserning SB its not exactly superpolished as of yet, altough i always enjoy my pithing needles since they are pretty much the only fast enough hate vs some combodecks (sneak/grisel), they are multifunctional, and in this list also is an answer to manlands which frighten me.

I aint devoting much of SB for GYhate since i consider my matchup vs reanimator and tinfin to be prettyfreewinish, and dredge to fight through various RIP decks seems unlikely, and the fact that nic fit always had an easy way of handling bridges.

I love playing with cabal since it reminds me of my former life as a professional poker player, the way it interracts with handreading :).

Feel free to dismiss the list as absolute junk :). I'd gladly appreciate it !

[Tao]

Devastation Tide is not getting rid of things and that is the real problem. I sometimes already struggle after just mulliganing once and that is only one card. If you Tide instead of Deed that are (virtually) more cards. The deck doesn't magically win just because it stabilized at one point.
The combo with CB is nice but that is also a 4-card-combo (Top + Counterbalance + Tide on Top + stuff on top that matches the CC of the opponent's permanents) that dies to Abrupt Decay.

@BUG: Re-added Garruks for 1 Lili and 1 IoK.

[Arianrhod]

Devastation Tide is not getting rid of things and that is the real problem. I sometimes already struggle after just mulliganing once and that is only one card. If you Tide instead of Deed that are (virtually) more cards. The deck doesn't magically win just because it stabilized at one point.
The combo with CB is nice but that is also a 4-card-combo (Top + Counterbalance + Tide on Top + stuff on top that matches the CC of the opponent's permanents) that dies to Abrupt Decay.

@BUG: Re-added Garruks for 1 Lili and 1 IoK.

I agree with this. The mass bounce is fine in some circumstances, and it's nice that it pitches to Force. But generally speaking, you want to just kill their stuff. You don't want them to just play it again next turn -- probably with lands that you gave them. I can see Tide being fine against decks that don't run a lot of basics, but still have heavy board presences -- but something like Maverick, let's say, with 3-4 basics -- you'll reset their board, and they'll just drop it all again. You want a more permanent answer IMO.

[drfontaine]

I agree with this. The mass bounce is fine in some circumstances, and it's nice that it pitches to Force. But generally speaking, you want to just kill their stuff. You don't want them to just play it again next turn -- probably with lands that you gave them. I can see Tide being fine against decks that don't run a lot of basics, but still have heavy board presences -- but something like Maverick, let's say, with 3-4 basics -- you'll reset their board, and they'll just drop it all again. You want a more permanent answer IMO.

Fine then. Although its not like you desperatly need to counter everything they try to recast in order to manage to stabilize, your win condidtion vs creature decks is obv vedalken anyways, unless they can refill with like 3-4 creatures its totally fine, alot of creatures for maverick also cost 1 wich is autocounter by top, else you just need a two on top but fine. They do not either have infinite ADecay, its just like this bad claim CB decks supposed to be dead just because they decided to release a card that actually reliably manages to break the lock. You play 4 CB, and if they decide to Decay ur CB they cant decay ur shackles which is your actual win condition vs those decks anwyays.

Maverick is an easy matchup preboard from my experience anyways since their clock is just way to slow for me to stabilize. Calling it a 4 card combo seems weird since all cards xcept perhaps Tide is really strong on their own.

Also i devoted most of SB in order to manage the creature decks which is Nic Fit original strong point, IE its ez to postboard organize strong creaturematchups. However from my testing it's not at all as bad as i thought it would be. Vedalken with Explorer is really strong imo.

Anyways thanks for input!

[Kich867]

Fine then. Although its not like you desperatly need to counter everything they try to recast in order to manage to stabilize, your win condidtion vs creature decks is obv vedalken anyways, unless they can refill with like 3-4 creatures its totally fine, alot of creatures for maverick also cost 1 wich is autocounter by top, else you just need a two on top but fine. They do not either have infinite ADecay, its just like this bad claim CB decks supposed to be dead just because they decided to release a card that actually reliably manages to break the lock. You play 4 CB, and if they decide to Decay ur CB they cant decay ur shackles which is your actual win condition vs those decks anwyays.

Maverick is an easy matchup preboard from my experience anyways since their clock is just way to slow for me to stabilize. Calling it a 4 card combo seems weird since all cards xcept perhaps Tide is really strong on their own.

Also i devoted most of SB in order to manage the creature decks which is Nic Fit original strong point, IE its ez to postboard organize strong creaturematchups. However from my testing it's not at all as bad as i thought it would be. Vedalken with Explorer is really strong imo.

Anyways thanks for input!

In what world is bouncing all of someone's stuff better than destroying all of it with Deed? You can't run Shackles and deed together, there's enough anti-synergy there to choke a goat out.

[drfontaine]

In what world is bouncing all of someone's stuff better than destroying all of it with Deed? You can't run Shackles and deed together, there's enough anti-synergy there to choke a goat out.

Well the whole point was to improve the combo mu but still play the explorer/cabal engine. Playing CB/vedalken with deed seems really antisynergistic.

Guess however that this deck is rather devlopemental and perhaps should belong in those threads instead, afterall its missing lots of core pieces of regular nic fit. I feel however after lots of testing rather satisfied with the list, and perhaps its biggest issue is its full controllish nature and the fact it after establishing control takes awhile to finish games, which might not be as satisfying, although i don't really mind.

[conboy31]

You can't run Shackles and deed together, there's enough anti-synergy there to choke a goat out.

In the current format deeds and shackles together isn't too bad. Deed is often used at 2 mana. Additionally, the most common way to beat a shackle without destroying it is to over extend. I have not used the pair together in nic fit, but have had minimal issues in more blue centric decks.

[Nithkar]

Hey guys.

I've recently have brought my attention to legacy and decided to go for Nic Fit. Initially i thought of building the rector version, but by reading about the meta-game nowadays I've started to think that a red splash would be better, especially because Red Elemental Blast and Slaughter Games. I really love the last one. But, since Scapewish don't let you have a combo hate sideboard (at least not a optimized one), i decided for the Punishing Nic Fit.

And when i was studying this build, i came across the inclusion of living wish on this list. And although i thought it doesn't had space, due Recurring Nightmare not being used anymore (aside rector), i was tempted to go for 2 of them in my main list, for the purpose of getting Magus of the Blood Moon and the lands. So it ended up the following, but i still have some considerations i would like your help with:

3x Grove of the Burnwillows
2x Bayou
1x Badlands
1x Taiga
1x Phyrexian Tower
1x Kessig Wolf Run
1x Volrath's Stronghold
4x Verdant Catacombs
2x Wooded Foothills
3x Forest
2x Swamp
2x Mountain

4x Veteran Explorer
2x Deathrite Shaman
2x Eternal Witness
1x Thrun, the Last Troll
1x Huntmaster of the Fells
2x Thragtusk
1x Primeval Titan
1x Broodmate Dragon

3x Pernicious Deed
3x Sensei's Divining Top

4x Green Sun's Zenith
4x Cabal Therapy
3x Punishing Fire
3x Abrupt Decay
2x Maelstrom Pulse
2x Living wish

SB:

3x Red Elemental Blast
3x Mindbreak Trap
2x Thoughtsize
2x Slaughter Games
2x Leyline of Sanctity/Layline of the Void
1x Grove of the Burnwillows
1x Magus of the Moon
1x Karakas

What do you think? As for the considerations, here they are. I know its an under-usage of living wish. I truly don't know if it's worth it, perhaps the addition of Garruk would be better. Sencond one would be DRS x Scavenging Ooze: i am beginning to think the first one is better, but i still see the second one more often in deck lists, so i cant be sure for certain. Third and final one is that I'm thinking of loosing titan for some other bomb. I really don't think he's that good on this list, especially with living wish on the board. I thought of Wolfir Silverheart, but i would realy like another flying bomb, one "like" Sigarda. The problem is that i can't think of any. Last, how is Recurring Nightmare playing nowadays? Is it only playable on Rector?

General help about the decklist is also welcome guys, and thanks in advance.

[Kich867]

Hey guys.

I've recently have brought my attention to legacy and decided to go for Nic Fit. Initially i thought of building the rector version, but by reading about the meta-game nowadays I've started to think that a red splash would be better, especially because Red Elemental Blast and Slaughter Games. I really love the last one. But, since Scapewish don't let you have a combo hate sideboard (at least not a optimized one), i decided for the Punishing Nic Fit.

And when i was studying this build, i came across the inclusion of living wish on this list. And although i thought it doesn't had space, due Recurring Nightmare not being used anymore (aside rector), i was tempted to go for 2 of them in my main list, for the purpose of getting Magus of the Blood Moon and the lands. So it ended up the following, but i still have some considerations i would like your help with:

3x Grove of the Burnwillows
2x Bayou
1x Badlands
1x Taiga
1x Phyrexian Tower
1x Kessig Wolf Run
1x Volrath's Stronghold
4x Verdant Catacombs
2x Wooded Foothills
3x Forest
2x Swamp
2x Mountain

4x Veteran Explorer
2x Deathrite Shaman
2x Eternal Witness
1x Thrun, the Last Troll
1x Huntmaster of the Fells
2x Thragtusk
1x Primeval Titan
1x Broodmate Dragon

3x Pernicious Deed
3x Sensei's Divining Top

4x Green Sun's Zenith
4x Cabal Therapy
3x Punishing Fire
3x Abrupt Decay
2x Maelstrom Pulse
2x Living wish

SB:

3x Red Elemental Blast
3x Mindbreak Trap
2x Thoughtsize
2x Slaughter Games
2x Leyline of Sanctity/Layline of the Void
1x Grove of the Burnwillows
1x Magus of the Moon
1x Karakas

What do you think? As for the considerations, here they are. I know its an under-usage of living wish. I truly don't know if it's worth it, perhaps the addition of Garruk would be better. Sencond one would be DRS x Scavenging Ooze: i am beginning to think the first one is better, but i still see the second one more often in deck lists, so i cant be sure for certain. Third and final one is that I'm thinking of loosing titan for some other bomb. I really don't think he's that good on this list, especially with living wish on the board. I thought of Wolfir Silverheart, but i would realy like another flying bomb, one "like" Sigarda. The problem is that i can't think of any. Last, how is Recurring Nightmare playing nowadays? Is it only playable on Rector?

General help about the decklist is also welcome guys, and thanks in advance.

You know what, I love this, I haven't actually looked at it, but I was thinking yesterday that Kessig Wolf Run would be godlike in Jund-Fit as "The thing besides scapewish to bring to the table". You now turn all your little dudes into -serious- ass threats.

Brief overview, don't like DRS. I would drop for tribe elder. That's about it.

[Viridia]

Quick & Small report.
Just went 3-1 with BG Nic-Fit in a MTGO Daily.

Here's the list:

Mainboard (60)

22 Lands
3 Bayou
5 Forest
4 Misty Rainforest
1 Phyrexian Tower
4 Swamp
4 Verdant Catacombs
1 Volrath's Stronghold

17 Creatures
1 Cloudthresher
1 Deranged Hermit
2 Eternal Witness
1 Grave Titan
1 Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
1 Rampaging Baloths
3 Sakura-Tribe Elder
2 Thragtusk
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
4 Veteran Explorer



21 Other spells
3 Abrupt Decay
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Green Sun's Zenith
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Recurring Nightmare
3 Sensei's Divining Top

Sideboard (15)

1 Acidic Slime
1 Ifh-Biff Efreet
3 Carpet of Flowers
3 Duress
3 Engineered Plague
3 Extirpate
1 Maelstrom Pulse



R1 Dredge
G1 He mulls to 4 and i can discard his LED turn 1 in a hand of: LED, Breaktrough, Dredger, Faithless Looting. I keep discarding his discardoutlets and eventually kill him
G2 I don't find any hate in a mulligan and keep a hand with Sakura but end up losing horribly
G3 Still no hate, but i can grind him out because he didnt hit any Bridge from Below in the first half of his deck.

R2 RUG Delver
G1 I die from Delver Beats + Mongoose
G2 I manage to win on the back of an early Deranged Hermit.
G3 He goes T2 Delver, T3 Delver, T4 Delver. I had answers for the first 2 while my top only gave me 3 Lands - fetch - 3 lands while being beaten by a Delver. Got killed by Lightningbolts the turn before i could drop a Tusk.

R3 GW Enchantress
G1 I win it on the back of early discard keeping him off draw effects.
G2 I loose horrible to a Sigil of the Empty Throne.
G3 I can discard an Enchantress' Presence and Pulse the 2nd one before he got to draw anything and drop a Engineered Plague on Druids, pretty much preventing him from drawing cards and grinding out a win

R4 Elves
G1 I have the removal for his Elves and beat him down with Rampaging Baloths.
G2 I don't hit any hate and die to a T4 Natural Order -> Craterhoof
G3 I keep a hand with 3 removal spells and a Witness. I keep his most scary dudes off the table untill he Zeniths up a Chameleon Colossus, but i counter it by dropping Rampaging Baloths and topdecking 2 fetchlands in a row like a boss :D



Deranged Hermit was great in the 2 games i saw him. Rampaging Baloths was a good finisher, that finished things up quickly and got me some more out of a late-game Explorer topdeck.
Haven't battled any Ux Control decks, and never drew Thrun vs RUG, so can't say anything about him or about the Ifh-Biff in the side.
If i see more Dredge i might pack Leyline of the Void, however Extirpate is just so amazing vs Reanimator/Tin Fins aswel as being not dead vs Control.

[Tao]

One thing that always makes me facepalm a bit is when people run Extirpate over Surgical Extraction. Against most decks it is the same card except that you can cast Surgical for free.

That mana makes such a difference because the decks against which you board that kind of card can usually kill you on turn one or two. So you can tap out for your discard/ramp and still be able to Extract them. Being forced to keep one black mana until you need the card slows you down a lot and telegraphs the card. Split Second is nice to have but not worth a mana. Another play that doesn't work with Extirpate is turning Cabal Therapy into Duress by using Surgical on their Cantrip on turn 1 on the draw to know their hand and not get killed (for example against TES or Sneak and Tell).

[TheArchitect]

One thing that always makes me facepalm a bit is when people run Extirpate over Surgical Extraction. Against most decks it is the same card except that you can cast Surgical for free.

That mana makes such a difference because the decks against which you board that kind of card can usually kill you on turn one or two. So you can tap out for your discard/ramp and still be able to Extract them. Being forced to keep one black mana until you need the card slows you down a lot and telegraphs the card. Split Second is nice to have but not worth a mana. Another play that doesn't work with Extirpate is turning Cabal Therapy into Duress by using Surgical on their Cantrip on turn 1 on the draw to know their hand and not get killed (for example against TES or Sneak and Tell).

I am much more fond of Extirpate. Infact I dont really think any deck without Snapcaster mage or a tempo plan can justify running surgical. Not being able to be countered, responded to with random stuff or brainstormed in response to prevent lose of card in hand is huge since the matchup is helps most with is miracles, storm or reanimator. Surgical obviously better against dredge, but both cards are actually pretty ineffective against dredge unless you draw a hand with like 3 of them.

The only matchup where having the turn 0 surgical is needed is the hermit druid combo deck.

[Viridia]

Usually i'd agree with you and run Surgical, however i've seen a fair amount of TinfFins and reanimator around on mtgo, and they can just win through Surgical.

[Bobmans]

nic fit
•to be really bad-mood cause you can't get a cigarette to fulfill your need for nicotine, a nic-fit is a very serious situation when one doesn't want to interfere with the nic-fitter during the pursuit of a cigarette... or else someone might get hurt.

If I don't get a cigarette soon I'm gonna start nic-fittin'.
◦See more words with the same meaning: to become angry, go crazy, freak out.
◦See more words with the same meaning: to crave.

[bruizar]

In what world is bouncing all of someone's stuff better than destroying all of it with Deed?

In a world with Sword of War and Peace, Stormseeker, Windfall (banned), Runeflare Trap, and many other cards. Heuristics like that cause innovation to stifle.