Abrupt decay is much worse than Chain of Vapor, which is the card most people cut for it. If not chain, than slaughter pact, echoing truth, pyroclasm - there are a lot of more situational cards that are a lot better than decay, the only thing abrupt decay does better is kill Counterbalance (and I guess chalice on two, but not terribly relevant). If MUD is popular in your meta, keep decay, otherwise there are a lot of better options that don't require a splash.Originally Posted by Dark Ritual
With 3 basics, 2 gemstone, 3 duals, that puts you at 7 fetches. I'm much more comfortable at 8 or 9. You can run an additional land in the SB if you want, it doesn't need to be a trop. I generally run 16 land main and cut it in matches I don't need it, which is basically the same thing.
Chain of vapor is a lot worse against countermagic than abrupt decay. As for the 2 gemstones, I still don't get why those aren't 2 more fetchlands. In a 16 cantrip list no less, gemstone mine is only good in the graveyard if we have the combo assembled or when it gives exactsies via threshed cabal rit. First thing I'm doing to Prosak's list is -2 gemstone mine +2 some fetchlands to find the green source postboard if I need it. Gemstone mine is played best in 4-5 color decks like TES while in ANT we're really only two colors with tiny splashes for a 3rd and 4th color that we can find with fetchlands just as easily. Strengthening brainstorm and ponder is also something I'm not opposed to, which fetchlands improve greatly.
The only ways that decay is worse than CoV is when you actually use CoV as a storm engine to bounce all your artifacts to hand to get to 10 storm via 4 artifacts, CoV, 4 artifacts, tutor, tendrils.
Also, chalice on two is not relevant? Oh let's see, that infernal tutor I've been digging for the whole game is dead and that's my route to victory? You're right, chalice on two is not relevant at all against us. The reason abrupt decay is so good is it permanently removes the card from play so the opponent can't replay it if they get the chance. Card also kills rest in peace, which is quite relevant against us. There's a reason decay became a sideboard staple the moment it was released, it can deal with EVERYTHING except leylines and jace, which we don't want them to untap with anyways as we're generally losing at that point to their overwhelming countermagic backup. Cut the card if you want, you'll wish you had it when you face miracles or that stupid round 1 MUD player.
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Currently Playing:
All flavors of storm combo
And ignores Force of Will. And Spell Pierce. And Daze. And any other counterspells.
...what permanents are you killing against decks with Force, Pierce, and Daze? The occasional Leyline out of Sneak and Show? Maybe, very rarely, a meddling mage out of U/W? The first can't be decayed anyway, and the second I've found to be pretty ineffective anyway (there isn't really anything to name that is overly crippling). It can be nice to bring like...one decay in against RUG sometimes, but not being able to do that isn't the end of the world.
And Decay is much worse in a lot of ways than Chain - 1 mana more is a lot against Thalia (one of the most common SB cards against us), and it doesn't hit Leyline (another fairly common SB card with discard decks becoming more popular).
I was saying Chalice isn't a very popular card, and the decks that play it usually don't play it on two until late game. If you expect MUD, decay is probably better...but it's not a great deck, and you're not terribly likely to face it.
As far as Rest in Piece - miracles is a matchup I think I'm just abandoning - I don't really like splashing a full color and taking 5 SB slots to bring one matchup from 10% to 20%, I think we can strengthen actual winnable matchups instead.
Abrupt Decay is pretty good... I haven't been running Gemstone Mines. Fetches have been plenty for me to find G.
Speaking of colors, is there a reason to run Badlands over Volcanic or to run Bayou vs Tropical?
Surgical Extraction / Extirpate?
I prefer two Volcanics to one Volcanic and one Badlands.
Blue is more important than black, in my opinion.
If you are in a good shape, you will win anyway. Petal and Mox also make black mana to go off from.
If you are in a bad shape, you need to cantrip yourself out of it. That requires blue mana, and preferably not from Petal or Mox.
Well today was a gpt trial in Zurich and i go there with my ANT list that i posted 1-2 pages before.
We was 34 player and i came with a friend that played BUG Agent.
Now my little report.
Match 1against URW Delver
g1:i have in hand enough rituals+ Leds and a tendril.But no tutor but i know hr have only 1 daze in hand and no other counter(he's on 18 life and i can only make 8 storm. i try to go off and have two lands open and try with a led and he play a the daze and here are my 9 storm:)
g2: i discard him a stifle and he have nothing and go off.
1-0-0
Match 2 against my friend with BUG agent.
g1: he doesnt have a hymn and i go off eas
g2: he have to.much disrupt and i draw ro.much lands and i fizzle on 1.life..
g3: i win it with PiF and a discarded thoughtseize and a 2 BoBs on the field.
2-0-0
Match 3 against elves combo
g1: i win easy a turn faster.
g2: discard him 2 glimpse with cabal therapy and he have no hate and i go off faster again.
Match 4 against reanimate but we drawet because he was sure that he wins one for top 8(he doesn't) and was hungry
good for me because reanimate is not the best match up..
3-0-1
Match 5 against goblins (Mono R)
g1:he have not a turn 1 lackey anyway i go off to fast and i win.
g2: He mull to 5 because he drawn nothing and no mindbreak trap and i have a lot times and i win, luck for.me.
4-0-1
Match 6 against Esper stoneblade
We draw.
4-0-2
So i was now second(2th) and became 7 gatecrash boosters.
Top 8
match 7 mirror ANT
g1:i disrupt him better than me and i win.
g2: the same.
Match 8 semi finals against the elves player.
g1: this time was the first time i didn't find a tutor with cantrips and was to.slow, but can go off with PiF+ a lot rituals nextt turn into a lot cantrips, then he fetch eot and i shuffle and he draw top deck Natural Order. shit happens
G2: this time have double mindbreal trap and 1 order+ the behemotj in hand and i play a duress and i have to discard he's NO because he can go off with it into regal force next turn. he have it next turn abd was to fast with a hardcast behemoth and beat me..
well shit happens but i by very happy with today and the Deck:DD
i hope you enjoy. Feel free
greets.from Switzerland
Pdingo
I'm not sure what the best way to host the storm worksheet that I've been working on is.
Here's a public link hosted through my Dropbox account, but not sure if that's the best way to go:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/0ue3zlxave...rksheet.xlsx?m
Take a look and tell me if there's anything that's wrong, you'd like to see added, if it's useful, etc. And yeah, the formatting and highlighting is awful.
Languages and dates for every set. For all you true pimps.
Ignore UW Countertop Miracles? Pretty hard considering the deck is tier 1, good luck with that.
I playtested some against UW Miracles preboard tonight without counterbalance maindeck but tops, cliques, no SFMs, snapcasters, snares, pierces, FoWs, and counterspells. I think I dropped 2 games out of something like 6 or more, granted he didn't have counterbalance maindeck. But I feel the matchup is quite winnable with my list, which is 15 cantrips with an extra duress over the 4th preordain, which helped out a lot against UW. We didn't play postboard games, which would have admittedly been a struggle with his sideboard of 4 flusterstorm, 4 CB, 2 Surgical Extraction, and some other 1 of I can't think of right now that may or may not be in his sideboard. Going to rock this build tomorrow at a 30ish person event:
Lands 15
4 Polluted Delta
4 Misty Rainforest
1 Verdant Catacombs
2 Underground Sea
1 Volcanic Island
1 Tropical Island
1 Island
1 Swamp
Ritual Effects 16
4 Dark Ritual
4 Cabal Ritual
4 Lotus Petal
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
Cantrips 15
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Gitaxian Probe
3 Preordain
Business 7
4 Infernal Tutor
1 Past in Flames
1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Ad Nauseam
Protection 7
4 Cabal Therapy
3 Duress
Sideboard 15
4 Abrupt Decay
4 Dark Confidant
3 Carpet of Flowers
2 Chain of Vapor
1 Ill-Gotten Gains
1 Tendrils of Agony
Bread Connoisseur on MTGSalvation Forums
Currently Playing:
All flavors of storm combo
Wait, so you're saying that you're advantaged against a bad UW list? Storm punishes bad deckbuilding? That's shocking.
It's as hard to find a good UW/Miracles player as it is to find a competent storm player. Playtesting against inferior opponents is really not useful. The only reason I've beat good UW miracles players is being faster than they can get disruption online preboard, and postboard is all about drawing Abrupt Decay.
Languages and dates for every set. For all you true pimps.
After losing to MUD twice in the GP Utrecht side event, I lost to mono white deck with chalices, thalia & spheres in the QF of a GPT today (went undefeated in the swiss versus Esper Blade, Omnitell, Painter and IDs versus Dragon Stompy + Zoo). There were also mono-red painter, dragon stompy and chalice tezzeret decks in the top-8. I'm getting a little sick of chalice decks, but I guess I'll have to play more hate for it at the GP.
I played the UB list with PiF (1 Grim Tutor, 7 Discard, 2 Preordain, 15 Lands) and green in the board. It was pretty solid all day.
37th GP Ams'11 | 80th GP Stras '13 | 5th BoM Paris '13 | 12th GP Lille '15
The list still had a lot of countermagic in it. Most UW lists don't even run spell pierce, which is pretty annoying to play against. And sensei's divining top is still really good against a storm deck without chant effects it turns out. Sure, it isn't the norm, but the opponent I tested against isn't a bad player at all. Heck, it was the list of a magic player I respect a lot (CuthberttheCat on here.) I'm confident that postboard it would be a good matchup even after counterbalance and flusterstorm because of the bobs, carpets, and abrupt decays in my sideboard. Sure, no counterbalance game 1 gives us probably a 5% percentage boost in a hundred games, maybe 10%. But games 2 and 3 will still be giant grindfests in all likelihood.
Went 3-2 today at a 36 person tournament. Lost to Sneak and Show round 1 (didn't know what he was on game 1, I cantripped over duress. Turn 2 griselbrand on the play is unbeatable it turns out, especially when I missed on a black source for multiple turns despite my cantrip.) Game 2 when I probed him he just had a handful of not combo cards outside sneak attack but no fatty. He drew emrakul and show and tell off the top with no library manipulation and I died to the spaghetti monster. Won the next 3 rounds against esperblade, UR trinket delver naught, and lands. Lost the last round against junk/rock/dark horizons/you pick a name with leyline of sanctity in the board as a 4 of most likely as he saw it both postboard games. Won game 1 with ease. Games 2 and 3, he got gaddock teeg x2 in game 2 after I decayed the first one he zenithed for another one (thought it was pretty strange that he had 2 teeg's in his 75, most zenith based decks run just 1.) Still almost won game 2, but combo'ing off through double deathrite was exceedingly difficult after he ate my lone tutor when I resolved IGG (didn't have the PiF left in the deck since he had zero counterspells so I switched the 2.) Game 3, I drew all 4 infernal tutors with an active bob and fizzled with ad nauseam from 14, then again I had 1 CoV left in the deck and just 1 IGG to recur the one in the yard to get past his leyline of sanctity. Didn't find anything before he killed both my bobs with golgari charm of all things then hit me for exactsies with a goyf that I was planning to chump. The 2 lone bounce spells definitely hurt in the leyline matchup, but leyline isn't exactly common. Overall I felt quite pleased with the deck, would run it again, but would probably run more bounce over carpets, which I boarded in just once the entire day against stoneblade but they never showed up. More bounce would have been useful, and maybe the 4th duress.
Bread Connoisseur on MTGSalvation Forums
Currently Playing:
All flavors of storm combo
I'm Looking to build ANT shortly. What does the ideal list look like right now?
Full 75 please
Thanks
Eh I feel your pain I play in a store in my area infested with like 4 guys that play MUD fanatically. I have resorted to good old Naturalize out of the SB as a 2 of it cures those Lodestone Woes and it is nice to have a permanent out to Leyline of Sanctity (also annoyingly popular). Sure people will laugh and snicker but it is very versatile and I don't care what anyone says it is good.
Disenchant does sound much better than being a turn faster and having Burning Wish access to Hull Breech in addition to Abrupt Decay.
Languages and dates for every set. For all you true pimps.
I play the burning wish version, and my LGS has a lot of people playing MUD and affinity. I have one meltdown in the board, it's awesome. Kills chalice, all artifact lands, things like tormods crypt. And with burning wish you can have it in G1, which is great if they resolve a chalice G1T1.
I realize it might not be the best sideboard option for a big tournament, but in my local meta it is great.
Funny guy. Ideal list? There is no ideal list.
Some say Wish ANT is optimal.
Some say 1-2 Grim Tutor is optimal.
Some say 16 cantrip ANT is optimal.
You'll have to build something yourself out of:
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
0-4 Preordain
4 Infernal Tutor
0-3 Burning Wish
0-2 Grim Tutor
1 Past in Flames
1 Ad Nauseam
1 Tendrils of Agony
4 Dark Ritual
4 Cabal Ritual
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Lotus Petal
0-2 Chrome Mox
2-4 Duress
2-4 Cabal Therapy
2 Underground Sea
1-2 Volcanic Island
0-1 Tropical Island
0-1 Badlands
1-2 Island
1 Swamp
4 Polluted Delta
4-6 other U/B fetch lands
Side:
0-2 Karakas (edited in, forgot about that option)
2-3 Chain of Vapor
3-4 Abrupt Decay
0-3 Xantid Swarm
0-3 Carpet of Flowers
0-1 Tropical Island
0-2 Additional discard spells
0-3 Additional kill spells (Tendrils, Empty the Warrens)
0-2 Additional enigine spells (Iggy or so)
0-7 Wish Board spells. Options:
- Tendrils
- Empty the Warrens
- Ill-Gotten Gains
- Past in Flames
- Reforge the Soul
- Diminishing Returns (bad with Cabal Ritual though)
- Grim Tutor
- Grapeshot
- Death Mark
- Pyroclasm
- Shattering Spree or other removal
Good luck!
Last edited by Asthereal; 04-03-2013 at 10:41 AM.
I have a link to an excel spreadsheet with some data in my signature. There's decklists for each build of storm combo that has top8'd recently and some summaries of their descriptive statistics.
Languages and dates for every set. For all you true pimps.
You forgot karakas for the board :)
but great breakdown.
edit: nice spreadsheet too, going to make some modifications for the build i use to see some things but sweet!
Very nice breakdown, maybe it is time we can make a good Primer where above list is a very good starting point.
Nice sheet, it gives a very nice overview of the different builds, thanks.
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