Generally speaking, it depends on how heavily the blue deck in question leans on Jace or whether they have a combo element. RIP Miracles is the deck that sends me slamming Slaughter Games the hardest. They have a combo element that needs attacked (Rip/helm) and Jace is their primary backup wincon, with their secondary backup (Entreat) being easily solved by just sitting a Deed on the table).Originally Posted by Star|Scream
BUGStill has two lines of winning: Jace ult protected by oodles of removal/counter, or Manlands.beatdown. If you strip out their Jaces, they are FORCED to attack you with manlands to win, which means you can junk up their engine by Deeding@0, playing Huntmasters/Thragtusks/Avenger, Ruination or Sowing Salt in particular, and so on. Also, Jace is a 4-of blue card, which makes their Forces worse.
Esperblade I don't usually bring in the Slaugter Games vs. They just don't lean on Jace hard enough -- he usually sits there brainstorming every turn, and while he's annoying, he's usually like a 2-of. It's just not worth boarding anything out for them.
Generally, if Jace is a 3- or a 4-of, then bring Slaughter Games in specifically for Jace.
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Alternatively, combo decks.
Taking TES's Burning Wishes, Sneak's Emrakuls, OmniTell's Omnisciences, Belcher's Belchers, High Tide's Time Spirals, RIP's/enchantress's Helms, Dredge's Dread Returns, and so on is all big game. So you board them in there.
12post is a unique scenario. I'm increasingly becoming convinced that it's correct to take their Crop Rotations, because we can ramp to 7-9 faster than they can -- they can just go further than we can, into the 15-25 range. If they don't have Crop Rotation -> Glacial Chasm, we should easily be able to kill them before they drop space monsters.
12post is also the ONLY deck where I board in all 3 Slaughter Games. This is because there is never a situation where you want to Burning Wish for Slaughter Games over Ruination. Otherwise, I'm of the opinion that it's always correct to leave one Games in the board to Wish for and increase your effective copies of.
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The Red Blasts depend on how blue the deck is. Something like BUGStill sees all 3 windmill slammed. Esperblade....isn't a very blue deck. I usually only board in a pair of them there.
So like, consider Esperblade as an example.
Let's say the opponent is on a very stock Esperblade list...nothing that seems unusual to me. My "standard" plan pre-tweaking would be to go
+2 Red Elemental Blast
-1 Green Sun's Zenith
-1 Veteran Explorer
The rationale is that Esperblade is a heavy attrition deck. Being able to turn your Burning Wishes into a Green Sun's Zenith is a powerful thing in this matchup. You also don't have a large number of relevant wish targets vs Esperblade, so you want to increase the number of things you actually want to wish for. Trimming out one Veteran makes sense because they can accelerate to the same degree that we can, and while we use it better, we want to keep them on 2-3 lands as opposed to 4-5. 4-5 means that they can use Snapcaster better, they can hardcast Force (very relevant since they aren't a very blue deck), they can play+flashback Lingering Souls, they can drop jace, they can drop Elspeth, and/or they can Clique+Karakas lock. Therefore, Esperblade is a good deck to use Veterans as deterrents to attack / Swords bait, but lean on Sakura-Tribes and Wood Elves as your actual ramp.
Miracles, then. Again, assume perfect stock list and opponent, no tweaking.
+3 Red Elemental Blast
+3 Slaughter Games
+1 Scapeshift
+1 Maelstrom Pulse
-4 Burning Wish
-3 Veteran Explorer
-1 Cabal Therapy
Explorer is obvious here. Miracles is one of the few decks that has as many basics as we do, and ramping them is usually a death sentence. They're glacially slow, so we can afford to lean on Sakura-Tribes and Wood Elves.
Most Miracles lists rely fairly heavily on their CounterTop engine to protect themselves. Red Blast is good to stop Counterbalance from landing if possible. Slaughter Games goes after Jace and Helm. The Scapeshift and Pulse come in because they're useful to have, and we're boarding the Wishes out. You board the Wishes out here because of the danger of Counterbalance. If they assemble CounterTop, then Burning Wish becomes real bad. It's much harder for them to counter Scapeshift or Pulse than it is Burning Wish, even if we'll see them with less frequency.
It MAY be correct to just give up on the Counterbalance fight and leave the REBs in the board in lieu of more fringe wish targets, but I like forcing them to deal with the threat of REB. Sometimes REB will win the Counterbalance war. Sometimes they'll have to draw off of Top to counter the REB, which will leave them vulnerable to a higher-drop threat. Sometimes you can Deed away the Counterbalance and the REBs are live again. It varies.
Now, here's one of those tweaking things we were talking about. Sometimes they only run 1 or 2 Counterbalances main. If you suspect that your opponent isn't running Counterbalance or isn't heavily committing to it, you can leave the Wishes in and the Wish targets in the sideboard. In that event, you would just go:
+3 Red Elemental Blast
+2 Slaughter Games
-3 Veteran Explorer
-1 Cabal Therapy
-1 Burning Wish
I still like shaving a Wish here. The danger of Blue Blast out of Miracles is VERY high -- they typically pack it for other problems that they face, but they'll bring it in vs us.
Here's a sample BUGStill list that got posted today in Caleb's article on CFB. I personally don't like it, but it's a good starting point because the nameless durdle masses will see it in a CFB article and build it, whether it's good or not.
Main Deck
2 Misty Rainforest
4 Polluted Delta
2 Verdant Catacombs
3 Underground Sea
2 Tropical Island
2 Bayou
2 Creeping Tar Pit
2 Wasteland
2 Mishra’s Factory
1 Swamp
1 Island
3 Jace, the Mindsculptor
2 Liliana of the Veil
4 Deathrite Shaman
3 Tarmogoyf
3 Snapcaster Mage
3 Standstill
1 Life from the Loam
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
2 Counterspell
2 Spell Pierce
2 Disfigure
1 Dismember
3 Abrupt Decay
Sideboard
2 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Duress
2 Flusterstorm
2 Thoughtseize
3 Vendillion Clique
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Tarmogoyf
3 Engineered Plague
This deck has NOTHING against Burning Wish, unlike mine which has 3 Snare + 2 BEB + 2 Snap. Vs this deck you wouldn't board out the Burning Wishes, at all. Instead, you would likely do something like:
+3 REB
+2 Slaughter Games
-1 Pernicious Deed
-2 Huntmaster of the Fells
-1 Thragtusk
-1 Green Sun's Zenith
This list is weird, since you'll likely see Tarmogoyf main. Goyfs and Deathrites will encourage you to keep in more Deeds than you usually would, as well as having to keep in more Thragtusks and at least one Huntmasters. This seems like a weird thing to want to take out, since Huntmaster and Thragtusk both require BUGStill to invest more resources in dealing with them, but in my experience, they're the better Deed deck. We don't need their lifegain here. Our plan vs BUGStill is to go to the big-game with Primeval, Avenger, and Scapeshift combo-kill. Going aggro against BUGStill won't work very well. Huntmaster in particular is usually ass here, because they have Disfigure, Abrupt Decay (for when he flips), and Mishra's Factory -- alongside Goyf, who will be bigger than he will, Snapcaster, who can flash-trade, and Pernicious Deed for the sweep. You can't bog down fighting them at their own game.
Boarding out the Green Sun increases our accessibility to it, which is important to establish Avenger or Primeval.
The Wish decision tree for BUGStill looks something like this:
If no nat.draw Slaughter Games, Wish for Slaughter Games, take Jace.
If nat.draw Slaughter Games, then Wish for the situation:
If land-light, Wish for Ramp
If opponent has been Therapied and you have lethal lands, Wish for Scapeshift
Else Wish for Green Sun (pref. for Primeval or Avenger; also for E.Wit to regrow Scapeshift)
The last option is usually only after your sideboarded Scapeshift has been countered or if you have some reason to not Scapeshift (they have an onboard Wasteland and you're at 7 lands, for example).
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tl;dr -- always have a plan with your wishes in your board. Don't board out Green Sun just for the sake of boarding it out. I only board it out in really heavy attrition matchups where you need that extra threat, AND where you think you'll be able to resolve Burning Wish, AND where you don't have 3 or 4 options that are better. Like, consider Jund. Jund is the type of deck where you might want to board out a Green Sun. But vs Jund, you'll ALWAYS wish for something else. You'll Ruinate their mana base, or you'll just win, or you'll want to Pyroclasm their board, or so on. BUGStill is very close to this threshold, but it's a bit different because you need to worry about your Wished Scapeshift getting countered, so you want something else that you can Wish for when you go big.
See what I mean? It's a weird subject. Unfortunately, I can't just download my knowledge about how the play the deck into everyone's heads, lol.
But that's exactly why I asked the question. I'll be playing the deck for the first time next Saturday and want to be as prepared as I can be. Thank you for the detailed response!
Gotcha. Best of luck! If you have any other questions, by all means just ask.
So here's my struggle. I been following this thread for quite some time. I have not played this deck in a competitive match, just solitairing it to get use to how it draws. I started with a G/B/w Rector-Fit list but have been putting the pieces together for a decent G/B/r Scapewish list. Insert dilemma here. I'm struggling with the pros/cons of each list in trying to find the one I actually like or think has a better chance in my U heavy meta (I've always stuck with playing U because your own FoW is usually the best answer to theirs. Run it or die to it.).
I like that the G/B/w Rector-Fit list has, well, Rector. It really is a great tutor, and it can tutor up a singleton answers like RiP (manaless dredge can be a thing in my meta) or Fetters in a pinch (No, I don't own a Moat. No, I can't afford to get one.). What I don't like about RiP is that it kills my Recurring Nightmare plan. I also like that the G/B/w list seems to have more life gain. But that may just be me. I do find it a bit slow. Lines like the Yosi soft lock take a lot of time to set up and get online. The whole deck seems very mana dependent and if your ramp fails you're in trouble. I also worry about the ramp helping them out too much too. But that could be said about either list.
As for the G/B/r list, first let me say that I only own a single Thragtusk and only 2 Huntmaster of the Fells. I'm sure the additional copy of each of those makes a big difference, but money rules right now. What I have found, or at least I feel, about this list is that the land base can be sketchy at times. I love the whole combo-esque Scapeshift deal, but I've struggled with it's deployment. I've either been in spots where I couldn't shift enough mountains to deal lethal or I didn't have Valakut, The Molten Pinnacle online. Is there a line of play that works best here? Can you give me a "Here's how you work it" step by step bit? Do you want to work toward Primetime tutoring up the Valakuts, then shift or is there an ideal play line here I'm missing? Or is it just something you can't really outline? I've also found that you really only shift once because after that you're out of mountains. Is that true? The one thing I love about the G/B/r list is Slaughter Games! This wrecks U decks and if I'm not playing U I want this kind of advantage!
Also, has anyone tried running Bojuka Bog in these lists to deal with Dredge? Is it maybe a SB thing? Is it something RiP handles better in the W list? Thoughts?
Eventually I'll take this to my LGS, I'm just not sure which list yet and I'm not very confident with it right now. But you can't keep playing Sneak/Show forever because they know what you got when you walk in the door.
Currently Playing:
Dredge / Hive Mind / Belcher / Sneak-Show
HayWire Motorsports - Tacoma, Washington
GoFundMe
I dont think you understand how valakut works with scapeshift. You dont need to have the valakuts out first, and I dont think Ive ever, in hundreds of games, had to scapeshift for mountains twice in a game and then not had enough to kill. And only once, in all those games did I not have enough mountains in my deck to kill someone with a scapeshift (against MUD, after a grindy game of batterskulls and wurmcoils he didnt die to my shift for 52).
You cast scapeshift with 7 lands out usually, sac them all and get 6 mountains and a valakut. They all come in at the same time, and valakut triggers for all 6 mountains. For each mountain the trigger checks to see if there are 5 other mountains (and as long as one of your non-basic mountains dont get wastelanded) there will be and so you deal 18 damage to the dome. You can also shift with 8 lands out to get 2 valakuts and 6 mountains, or the wasteland proof plan 1 valakut and 7 mountains. With 8 lands you deal 36 or 21 damage respectively, which is sometimes needed if they have StpS and a big creature of their own, lifegainer, they didnt fetch/thoughtseize/etc, or they have a wasteland they are saving.
Ideally, you never play a valakut until you find one off scapeshift, but sometimes you are forced to because it is stuck in your hand. If it is, and you are worried about your valakut getting wasted before you can shift, just bait the waste with other non-basics, then play your valakut.
With primetitan valakut plan, it depends how many mountains you have. If you are at 5 mountains, usually getting 1 vala, 1 mountain is best, because you can deal 3 damage to something now, and then the next turn get 1 more vala, and 1 mountain to deal 6 damage. But you can also just get the valakuts first to turn any more mountains you draw into 6 damage. If you have 4 mountains, get 2 valakuts and then deal 12 next turn, if you have less than 4 mountains out, just get fetchlands or mountains.
*note, However I will almost always get volraths stronghold, and sometimes phyrexian tower, off my first prime titan trigger. Only the phyrexian tower if they have white/exile removal. And then that insures me I can recur my creatures (including the primetitan) even in the face of removal. I only ever rush the valakuts if I NEED that clock, or I know their deck doesnt have removal.
Ive lost faith in rector from a competitive standpoint. Too many of their cards are too narrow and just clog up the hand. More often than not, I just find myself wishing all the enchantments, rectors and cards like rusulka or yosei were just StpS, goyfs or thoughtseizes. Its very fun and powerful, but too often implodes on itself. But, if I were to play rector, I dont think Id play RiP, but if I did I wouldnt care if half my deck was useless against dredge, because their entire deck would be rendered useless.
Well, I think you pretty much can play Sneak forever, because it's like bringing a rocket launcher to a knife fight. I've never found an effective way to fight that damn deck.So here's my struggle. I been following this thread for quite some time. I have not played this deck in a competitive match, just solitairing it to get use to how it draws. I started with a G/B/w Rector-Fit list but have been putting the pieces together for a decent G/B/r Scapewish list. Insert dilemma here. I'm struggling with the pros/cons of each list in trying to find the one I actually like or think has a better chance in my U heavy meta (I've always stuck with playing U because your own FoW is usually the best answer to theirs. Run it or die to it.).
I like that the G/B/w Rector-Fit list has, well, Rector. It really is a great tutor, and it can tutor up a singleton answers like RiP (manaless dredge can be a thing in my meta) or Fetters in a pinch (No, I don't own a Moat. No, I can't afford to get one.). What I don't like about RiP is that it kills my Recurring Nightmare plan. I also like that the G/B/w list seems to have more life gain. But that may just be me. I do find it a bit slow. Lines like the Yosi soft lock take a lot of time to set up and get online. The whole deck seems very mana dependent and if your ramp fails you're in trouble. I also worry about the ramp helping them out too much too. But that could be said about either list.
As for the G/B/r list, first let me say that I only own a single Thragtusk and only 2 Huntmaster of the Fells. I'm sure the additional copy of each of those makes a big difference, but money rules right now. What I have found, or at least I feel, about this list is that the land base can be sketchy at times. I love the whole combo-esque Scapeshift deal, but I've struggled with it's deployment. I've either been in spots where I couldn't shift enough mountains to deal lethal or I didn't have Valakut, The Molten Pinnacle online. Is there a line of play that works best here? Can you give me a "Here's how you work it" step by step bit? Do you want to work toward Primetime tutoring up the Valakuts, then shift or is there an ideal play line here I'm missing? Or is it just something you can't really outline? I've also found that you really only shift once because after that you're out of mountains. Is that true? The one thing I love about the G/B/r list is Slaughter Games! This wrecks U decks and if I'm not playing U I want this kind of advantage!
Also, has anyone tried running Bojuka Bog in these lists to deal with Dredge? Is it maybe a SB thing? Is it something RiP handles better in the W list? Thoughts?
Eventually I'll take this to my LGS, I'm just not sure which list yet and I'm not very confident with it right now. But you can't keep playing Sneak/Show forever because they know what you got when you walk in the door.
But anyway.
The Complete Idiot's Guide to Scapeshifting
-OR-
Valakut and You: A Love Story
Okay, at the most basic level, Valakut works via layers. Valakut says, hey kid, I'm a computer...
... wrong meme.
When you have 5 other mountains in play ----> Valakut trigger. This means that the 6th mountain to come into play will generate a trigger.
So, when you Scapeshift, you get a Valakut and 6 Mountain-cards at minimum. Valakut will check each Mountain entering play to see if it can trigger. But, you see, since all 6 come into play at the same time, Valakut will "see" each Mountain as being the 6th Mountain, thereby generating a trigger for 18 damage total. 8 lands means 2 Valakuts + 6 Mountains for 36 damage. And so on.
Now, as for Primeval Titan: you can apply the same logic here. Your goal with Primeval is to make it so that when you declare attack with Primeval the next time (or when it comes into play), you have a board state consisting of a Valakut (or 2) and FOUR mountains. If you have, let's say a Valakut +4, and you play or attack with Titan, you can fetch two Mountains. Since these Mountains come into play at the same time, Valakut will treat each of these Mountains as the "6th" Mountain, thereby triggering and doing damage. Also note that on Primeval swing, you get these lands. So you can kill blockers with Mountains, and then the Titan damage is still coming through.
If you're having trouble with maintaining Mountain count, you're probably fetching Mountains too aggressively. My gameplan with developing my mana base is to have several basic Forests, a basic Swamp, a basic Mountain, a Taiga or a Badlands, and as many of my 3 Bayous as I can find in play. You don't WANT to have a "balanced" mana base. You want to play it as though you're playing G/B Nic Fit with a red splash. You want as few mountains in play as you can get away with -- usually the answer is two. Try to make one basic, so that you don't get Wasted off of red, and then usually you're have a Taiga or a Stomping Ground or a Badlands in play that you naturally drew. That's fine. But like, when you play Wood Elves, say - you want to tutor for a Bayou or a Forest with him, almost every time. You want as few Mountains in play until you are Titaning or Scapeshifting as possible.
Speaking of Titan, what I do with him depends on my board state. If I have a Valakut+3 or a Valakut+4 in play already, I'll usually set up to start Titaning. If I have 0 Valakuts in play, or like Valakut + 1, or some such, then I'll usually get just more Bayous/Forests/Swamps with him and stay on the Scapeshift plan.
Also, if you're playing vs Wasteland, keep in mind that you can get blown out if your opponent actually knows how Valakut works. If your opponent is sandbagging a Wasteland in play and you Scapeshift, you need to do the count mentally at X+1. If you need 18 damage, then you need to Shift with 8 lands in play, getting 1 Valakut + 7 Mountains. This is because if you do the usual 1+6 for 18, they can Wasteland one of your Mountains in response to the Valakut triggers. That way, the Valakut will see you as only having 5 mountains in play, and none of them will trigger. So for each Wasteland left sitting in play, you need to add one Mountain to the Shift count.
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If you don't have a 2nd Thragtusk or 3rd Huntmaster, that's a hell of a lot less damaging to you than if you don't have a Moat and want to play Rector. Also, if your meta is very control/blue, then Scapewish is going to be better in the meta anyway than Rector. Rector would be fine, but Scapewish is slightly better. Manaless is a weird nut to crack just in general. Nic Fit is somewhat naturally predisposed towards annoying Dredge because we sacrifice as a means of ramping, which poofs Bridge from Belows. But it's a really strange matchup.
The real deck-breaker with Scapewish is the mana base and the Burning Wishes. Almost anything else can be worked around, I'd say. But the deck NEEDS 4 Wishes and it NEEDS the duals because there's no other way to make the mana work. You need Mountains for Valakut, basics for Explorer and Sakura-Tribe, and you can't afford room for fetches, so you need like 6 Taigas to have effective green sources while maintaining Mountain count (this is where the 2 Stomping Grounds come in).
Does that help a bit, Tim?
Thanks for the replies guys. I do understand how Valakut triggers and all that. The struggle was in the actual play lines. So that helps a bit. I'll play around some more.
Again, thanks.
Currently Playing:
Dredge / Hive Mind / Belcher / Sneak-Show
HayWire Motorsports - Tacoma, Washington
GoFundMe
Played on MWS some last night with Scapewish. Lost to BUG Cascade (2 different versions) and Merfolk (with standstills and cliques) but beat B/G Pox. I just couldn't keep up with their card advantage, double hymns, etc.
Edit: Also, I suck.
Merfolk should have been fairly easy -- you have Deeds, ramp into aforementioned Deeds, Therapies to make sure that Deeds resolve, BW for sweep (kind of), and no Islands. Huntmaster and Tusk are both really good vs fish, as well -- ditto with the ramp dudes. Sakura-Tribe and Wood Elves are good at getting through their tempo while chumping on the way.
BUG Cascade is weird. My best advice there is to lean on Top heavily. They're GOING to out CA you -- that's just a fact of life. Hymn to Tourach periodically is GOING to win them games. Basically, what you need to do in that matchup is deploy ramp guys, generate mana, and float what you want to be doing with your Top -- try not to draw it, because if you let goodstuff sit in your hand, they're going to make you pitch it.
Also, try to not fire off Therapies too prematurely. They need to attack on the ground, so you can use the combat step as your sac-outlet for Explorers. Save your Therapies for when you need a spell to resolve.
Oh, and don't just run out Deed on t3 or whatever without the mana to crack it. They're going to be looking for Decay targets since their Decays are largely dead. That means that they'll probably have one or two stranded in their hand. Save Deed to play + crack on the same turn if you can.
Another trick, speaking of Decay. If you know that you're going to be shuffling your deck this turn, Draw off Top on your upkeep. A Top in your graveyard is much better than a Top shuffled back in your deck (BUG players will typically Decay your Top in response to a shuffle effect, to try to get you to shuffle it away. A dead Top can come back with Eternal Witness. A shuffled Top cannot.
The one deck played baleful strix, jitte, and countertop to counter my deeds!
And the merfolk player was able to tap down all my creatures with triple reejeries and alpha strike.
/ragequit
Meh. I wouldn't take that as meaningful testing, then, honestly. Shit like that happens -- in paper magic we call it having a bad day.
I know this feel. I was playing on Tuesday in a sudo-tournament with my testing group. My friend Rich was playing 'Muica with a singleton snappy in place of a geist of saint taft. I don't remember the specifics, but I lost the final game because he drew snappy. Maybe snap swords on primetime? Something annoying like that.
Retired Berserk Stompy player
Current Decks: Scapewish NicFit, Grixis Affinity, Green Zombardment
I've played maybe 4 matches vs. RUG and I never get a decent 6 or 7 card hand. Contrary to popular belief, RUG is my worst matchup
Anyway, I played Tao's BUG list at a local tournament yesterday to try it out before Milwaukee. I beat UB Delver and Aluren and lost to RUG and Elves.
UB Delver I won off of Deeds into Jace + Liliana both games.
Lost to RUG off of a mull to 4 then a mull to 5. See above. I almost had him game 1. My starting hand was land, land, veteran, Wurmcoil Engine. He bolted then stifled my explorer and beat down with 2 mongeese and a delver. On my last turn, I was at 9 with deed in hand with 3 lands and an explorer on the board. I knew he had one bolt in hand, so I was dead and I had to play deed and blow it for 0 to kill his insect, which was sad because with 1 more land I could have killed all of his creatures. Unfortunately, he had another bolt which meant I was dead anyway.
Won game 1 vs elves off of a bunch of blind therapy hits and deeds.
Game 2 I swept his board but he ripped glimpse with a single elf in his hand and ended it there.
Game 3 I mulled to 5 and died to emrakul on turn 3.
The aluren match was a lot of fun. Game 1 I let her intuition for 3 recruiters. I played a deed and sat on it for 4 mana. When she tried to go off with Aluren in play, I let her get the last recruiter and then I blew deed for 4 when she tried to play dream stalker. She was left with dream stalker in play with all recruiters in the graveyard. Unfortunately, my only clock was Thrun which isn't very good at attacking into dream stalker. Eventually I got a 9/9 Ooze attacking with a Jace in play. I made a mistake here and brainstormed with Jace instead of fatesealing her, which meant she drew raven familiar into cavern harpy with aluren and parasitic strix in play and killed me.
Game 2 she Intuitioned for Recruiters again. She played Aluren, which I attempted to Force, which she Forced, which I responded with by extirpating her Recruiters. Interestingly enough, the fact that I couldn't find surgical extractions and used extirpate instead won me this game, because she couldn't counter extirpate and I stopped the combo. Ooze got there in the end.
We started game 3 with 5 minutes left so I boarded some creatures back in. Jace + Thrun + Negate/FoW went the distance.
The deck was a lot of fun. I really liked having FoW in the board.
So I'm completely new to Nic Fit. I've known of its existence for a while, but got interested in it in the past few months really. Something I've been wondering is whats the game plan again the emergence of hexproof or shroud creatures like Nimble Mongoose or Geist of Saint Traft. I was looking at the Punishing Fire build of the deck, and I couldn't really see ways around it.
Pernicious Deed.
Arianrhod, I saw in your latest Scapewish Sideboard that you got 2 Pithing Needles. When do they come in and why? :)
Also, I'm gonna try out big Garruk in Scapewish at the tourney tomorrow, just not sure if I should cut Wickerbough Elder for the 2nd Garruk.
Maybe the 4th Pernicious Deed is good right now with all the Geist of Saint Traft and so on?
Hey guys,
So, i'm building a Punishing Nic Fit based mostly on HoneyT's version, so first thing want to I him. Second, i have a few questions. First, i found myself preferring to play with a 2nd Thragtusk over the 2nd Huntmaster. That because i feel that i want more tusk against decks that roll StP, so that's the one i want a 2nd copy. Is this wrong?
2nd, i saw on earlier versions of the punishing fire build the usage of living wish. Is it worth it? i was thinking on playing this card, but that would result on abandoning carpet of flowers on the sideboard, living 5 slots for living wish targets (Grove, Magus of the Moon, Bojuka bog, Veteran Explorer, ??) and the rest for combo hate. is that any other good target for wish?
TY in advance
Thragtusk and Huntmaster are similar in what they do. They help to stabilize against Aggro, 2 for 1 against Control and sometimes they randomly win against an opponent who just can't deal with this specific threat. In terms of "power level for mana cost" they are also equal so I don't think it makes a big difference which one you use as a 2-off.
I have tried Living Wish quite often and I have never been able to make it work. In theory it sounded good, but in testing it was always underwhelming. It is a bit too clunky and the SB slots are important - try to take 5 cards out of HoneyT's sideboard and you will see how much it would hurt the post board games.
Hello nic fitters,
I've been following this thread for a while, and I'm thinking of getting my hands on the deck. The question is which version, as there are so many. My meta has a lot of stoneblade, and there's some junk, death and taxes, team america, BUG, burn, storm, sneak and show, aggro loam and quite a few others but it's inconsistent who shows up each week. One week I might see goblins or elves but then never see it for another 2 months or something. Does Nic Fit have game against these decks? I'm mainly worried about stone blade, as that's the most popular deck in my meta.
I don't think I want to buy 4 badlands, so scapeshift is out, but would green/white/black (I have the white duals), red with punishing fire (I have some taigas) or just straight G/B be a good choice? Or would I just be shooting myself in the foot buying into nic fit? Anyway, I'm thinking of something like this:
3 Bayou
4 Veteran Explorer
4 Verdant Catacombs
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
1 Primeval Titan
4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Hymn to Tourach
2 Scavenging Ooze
4 Abrupt Decay
2 Maelstrom Pulse
3 Pernicious Deed
2 Eternal Witness
4 Forest
3 Swamp
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Volrath's Stronghold
4 Windswept Heath
2 Garruk, Primal Hunter
1 Grave Titan
1 Thragtusk
2 Treetop Village
2 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Wall of Blossoms
SB: 3 Carpet of Flowers
SB: 3 Duress
SB: 3 Tormod's Crypt
SB: 2 Extirpate
SB: 1 Damnation
SB: 2 Diabolic Edict
SB: 1 Kitchen Finks
Is that a decent list? Let me know what you think.
I think this is a good G/B list. My thoughts:
For the maindeck:
- It has not enough Tops. Play a third and consider a fourth. I would play 4. You have 9 removal spells that prolong the game and, 8 discard spells that are dead sometimes and good late game cards that want to be found. Having a top in play almost always pays off the investment relatively quick.
- Also try how the mana works for you and consider a 23d land because you have 2 Treetop Villages, Phyrexian Tower and Volrath's Stronghold as lands with inferior mana production and Hymn/Garruk PH are demanding a lot of colored Mana.
For the SB:
- Why Tormod's Crypt? Surgical/Extirpate help in the same matchups and are useful against all other combo decks and some Control matchups.
- Don't play Diabolic Edict. It was a great solution for big guys until they printed Griselbrand. Getting 14 for 1'ed is not a pleasant feeling. If you need that effect against Aggro play Innocent Blood. Blood is amazing against RUG.
- Duress is great against Burn, Thoughtseize is better against Sneak and Tell and Elves. So unless you have a lot of Burn in your Meta I would play TS over Duress.
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