All B/R update speculation.

[Kich867]

I can't think of a single scenario where Brainstorm is better than Ancestral Recall outside of UW Miracles. Except that's a moot point since the entire legacy metagame would be wildly different if it was legal. Legacy doesn't have restricted cards. Ancestral Recall would have a 4-of, and you simply wouldn't play bad decks where you actually need to put shit from your hand back on top of your library.

Brainstorm will never be better than Ancestral Recall because "putting bad cards away" isn't as good as "Keeping these bad cards and the 3 cards on top of my library."

[DrJones]

The problem with Brainstorm isn't that you draw 3 cards, but that you can access to up to three cards from the future, so if you have brainstorm in hand is equivalent to begin the game with a "10 card hand", so instead of having a 40% chance of drawing a specific card, you have a greater one. Like Ancestral Recall, the effect itself is okay if it's properly costed. Brainstorm isn't properly costed and probably too strong for the legacy meta, looking at the historic dominance of decks playing it.

R&D make decisions to ban or no reprint cards based not only on how often they make a deck win a tournament, but also if there will be a card in a future set that can hose it or will make it even more busted. However, they won't take an action if it doesn't affect the popularity of a format, or if its in their interest to kill the format. Months ago, I told WotC that Imperial Painter was a good metagame choice against these blue tempo decks, but people just couldn't afford to play it unless they reprinted Imperial Recruiter, which they recently did. It's still too soon, but the price of the card will become more affordable in a few months.

My personal suggestion is to start splashing dual lands for Daze as the only blue card in the deck. The effect is stronger than Mental Misstep, the drawback is less relevant, and it has all the tempo advantages of Force of Will without its drawbacks. It's one card that buys you tempo even if you don't have it in your deck. The only problem is that the last time I lobbied for splashing a card in every deck, Survival of the Fittest got banned.

[DragoFireheart]

because of the same reason they restricted Ponder and banned Ponder and Preordain in Modern: They can grab Combo pieces

Combo doesn't exist in Legacy. /sarcasm

I can't think of a single scenario where Brainstorm is better than Ancestral Recall outside of UW Miracles.

RUG tempo: Your Delver can be a 3/2 on turn 2.

Combo decks (Storm/Sneak Attack): You can hide your key card from discard.

ProBant: they want to put their Progenitus back into their deck.


I just named four decks where Brainstorm is superior to Recall and three of them are decks to beat.

[Mastikor]

No. You didn't name four decks, only four situations. I'm 100% sure that AR would be far superior in any of given decks. Ancestral is the most powerful (read: undercosted) Magic card ever. No need for further debate imo.

And yeah, Brainstorm is probably the most powerful legacy card, but there is no need to ban it. Goddamn, Jund/"fair" decks are doing just great atm...

[Kich867]

Combo doesn't exist in Legacy. /sarcasm





RUG tempo: Your Delver can be a 3/2 on turn 2.

Combo decks (Storm/Sneak Attack): You can hide your key card from discard.

ProBant: they want to put their Progenitus back into their deck.


I just named four decks where Brainstorm is superior to Recall and three of them are decks to beat.

Rug Tempo wouldn't care, Combo Decks would be fine with losing a card when next turn they can draw 4-7 cards, and Pro Bant wouldn't be a deck.

I mean like does that register? That if Ancestral Recall was a card in Legacy non-blue decks just wouldn't exist, and the shitty decks we play compared to what we could play with that card wouldn't be around? I fundamentally can't see a format where you're allowed to play 4x Ancestral Recall where it's not just like storm mirrors or heinously hardcore control.

Furthermore, you're missing the bigger picture of Brainstorm not "not existing". RUG Tempo runs 8-10 cantrips. Guess what's the #1 inclusion now? Ancestrall Recall > Brainstorm. Recall is still better in every situation. We're talking about the difference between having a "virtual" 7 card hand and actually just being able to drill through your deck with Recall.

[DragoFireheart]

I mean like does that register? That if Ancestral Recall was a card in Legacy non-blue decks just wouldn't exist, and the shitty decks we play compared to what we could play with that card wouldn't be around?

Sorta like now?

We have one deck that is not blue that is a DTB: Jund. The format fluctuates, but most of the time there only ever exists one non-blue DTB. Sure, there are other non-blue decks that put up results, but they are almost all tier 1.5/2 decks because they just die to combo. And guess what every one of those blue decks have?

Brainstorm.

The point I was making wasn't to justify a unbanning of Ancestral Recall (because it is clearly too powerful), but rather to show that the power level of Brainstorm is too high for Legacy and that it stifles (viable) deck variety. You need a damn good reason not to run Brainstorm in Legacy. No, this isn't anything new, but neither is the trend of 90% of the meta being blue and maybe one or two decks being non-blue that are tier 1 and don't just fold to combo.

[xfxf]

Without Brainstorm black/green decks are going to smother Blue decks (everything from Combo to Tempo and Control) in card advantage. Everyone and their mums will play Liliana & Co.

[joemauer]

Sorry to bring up the power level of Brainstorm to illustrate why Gush should never be unbanned.

Can't we just discuss something that we can all agree on now like the unbanning of Mind Twist.

[Lemnear]

Combo doesn't exist in Legacy. /sarcasm

We should still be fair here. There is no Tinker, Y. Will or shit in Legacy and Modern lacks any reasonable Defense

[DragoFireheart]

Without Brainstorm black/green decks are going to smother Blue decks (everything from Combo to Tempo and Control) in card advantage. Everyone and their mums will play Liliana & Co.

I'm very sketpical of this.

Look at Modern. Doesn't have cantrips, FoW, JTMS, or Brainstorm. Blue decks have plenty of representation and there is quite a variety of decks.

We should still be fair here. There is no Tinker, Y. Will or shit in Legacy and Modern lacks any reasonable Defense

Non-blue might stand a better chance against combo decks if they didn't have Brainstorm.

Sorry to bring up the power level of Brainstorm to illustrate why Gush should never be unbanned.

Can't we just discuss something that we can all agree on now like the unbanning of Mind Twist.

There isn't much to discuss when nearly everyone agrees.

[Lemnear]

I'm very sketpical of this.

Look at Modern. Doesn't have cantrips, FoW, JTMS, or Brainstorm. Blue decks have plenty of representation and there is quite a variety of aggro decks..

Fixed

[DragoFireheart]

Fixed

To be fair, most of the DTB in Legacy win by turning a creature sideways.

[xfxf]

Look at Modern. Doesn't have cantrips, FoW, JTMS, or Brainstorm. Blue decks have plenty of representation and there is quite a variety of decks.

Cools, sounds great. If anybody doesn't like blue in Legacy they can gtfo and play Modern then.

[DrJones]

That's already happening.

[Mr. Safety]

I like Mind Twist coming off the list, and I also like Black Vise coming off the list. Abrupt Decay is EVERYWHERE, making the format already geared towards fighting it off.

[Megadeus]

To be fair, most of the DTB in Legacy win by turning a creature sideways.

Because Sneak and Show is an Aggro deck...

Do people really think BS should be banned?

[Mr. Safety]

Because Sneak and Show is an Aggro deck...

Do people really think BS should be banned?

I hope not. Good, yes. Ban-worthy, no.

[joemauer]

Because Sneak and Show is an Aggro deck...

Do people really think BS should be banned?

I don't think they will ban bullshit posts from Drago.

[Mon,Goblin Chief]

Sorta like now?

We have one deck that is not blue that is a DTB: Jund. The format fluctuates, but most of the time there only ever exists one non-blue DTB. Sure, there are other non-blue decks that put up results, but they are almost all tier 1.5/2 decks because they just die to combo. And guess what every one of those blue decks have?

Brainstorm.

The point I was making wasn't to justify a unbanning of Ancestral Recall (because it is clearly too powerful), but rather to show that the power level of Brainstorm is too high for Legacy and that it stifles (viable) deck variety. You need a damn good reason not to run Brainstorm in Legacy. No, this isn't anything new, but neither is the trend of 90% of the meta being blue and maybe one or two decks being non-blue that are tier 1 and don't just fold to combo.

You literally just wrote this: people play blue decks because they want blue to improve their combo matchup and because they're playing blue, they play Brainstorm. Clearly that's a sign that Brainstorm is much too good and needs to be banned. Wait what?
I'll let everybody come to conclusions as to what that exhibition of impeccable logic implies as to your point of view's validity on their own.

[DragoFireheart]

Cools, sounds great. If anybody doesn't like blue in Legacy they can gtfo and play Modern then.

Great way to get new blood into the format. You should go dig up my post from a year ago about the top three reasons Legacy will be dead in 3-5 years (back when I wrote it).

You literally just wrote this: people play blue decks because they want blue to improve their combo matchup and because they're playing blue, they play Brainstorm. Clearly that's a sign that Brainstorm is much too good and needs to be banned. Wait what?
I'll let everybody come to conclusions as to what that exhibition of impeccable logic implies as to your point of view's validity on their own.

You do realize that 99% of combo decks are blue, right? And they also play Brainstorm, right? Did you notice how I said "blue decks" and not "blue control" or "blue tempo" or "blue combo"? Right?

People play blue because they want to play the best card in the format. It's not rocket science. It just so happens that it helps make fighting combo matchups easier. That same card also makes combo decks better.

But I'm sure you knew that already and were just being facetious.

I don't think they will ban bullshit posts from Drago.

Because pointing out that 90% of Legacy is blue is bullshit posting. Because pointing out that blue won't drop dead as evidenced in other formats where Brainstorm is not legal. Because pointing out that most Legacy decks still use the attack step to win beyond Storm decks is bullshit posting.