All B/R update speculation.

[Koby]

You do realize that 99% of combo decks play Brainstorm, right?

Your argument is counterpointed by SCG Legacy Open at Atlanta this weekend's Top 16:

3/8 decks play Brainstorm (all lost in Quarterfinals)
7/16 decks play Brainstorm.

[DragoFireheart]

Your argument is counterpointed by SCG Legacy Open at Atlanta this weekend's Top 16:

3/8 decks play Brainstorm (all lost in Quarterfinals)
7/16 decks play Brainstorm.

I can't seem to find the link. When do they usually post information?

Edit: I'll comment further when I see the information.

[JamieW89]

I can't seem to find the link. When do they usually post information?

bit.ly/10JwHAr

All the red decks..

So this weekend ANT lost to Elves in the invitational QF, ANT lost to Jund in the open QF and TES lost to Loam in another open QF. Le wut?

[DragoFireheart]

bit.ly/10JwHAr

All the red decks..

So this weekend ANT lost to Elves in the invitational QF, ANT lost to Jund in the open QF and TES lost to Loam in another open QF. Le wut?

Burn became a DTB at one point and caused a lot of rage. Not sure why this is a surprise to see a combo deck lose to matchups that are usually byes for it (luck, inexperienced pilot, etc).

[sdematt]

I'd love to see Mind Twist be unbanned. I'd love that card in BUg Control.

-Matt

[Lemnear]

bit.ly/10JwHAr

All the red decks..

So this weekend ANT lost to Elves in the invitational QF, ANT lost to Jund in the open QF and TES lost to Loam in another open QF. Le wut?

All this proves is, that a lot more people seem to pick up storm After it won 2 SCG tournaments in a row but lack any experience with the archtype and fail. I love it that you can't just copy-paste a decklist and perform well with storm aside from the no-brainer starting hands.

It's not uncommon that ANT can loose to Jund and Elves. Once the Player keeps a slow Hand with cantrips he got raced by elves or junds discard. TES loosing to Loam however is hardly explainable due to my knowledge

[clavio]

Sorta like now?


The point I was making wasn't to justify a unbanning of Ancestral Recall (because it is clearly too powerful), but rather to show that the power level of Brainstorm is too high for Legacy and that it stifles (viable) deck variety.

It bothers me when people say this. There is a huge variety among the decks that run brainstorm.

[lordofthepit]

Three Brainstorm decks made the top 8 of the Legacy Open today. All three lost to non-blue decks.

Also, anything that makes Legacy more like Modern is a bad idea.

[Koby]

All this proves is, that a lot more people seem to pick up storm After it won 2 SCG tournaments in a row but lack any experience with the archtype and fail. I love it that you can't just copy-paste a decklist and perform well with storm aside from the no-brainer starting hands.

It's not uncommon that ANT can loose to Jund and Elves. Once the Player keeps a slow Hand with cantrips he got raced by elves or junds discard. TES loosing to Loam however is hardly explainable due to my knowledge

Huh? What?

Adam Prosak has been on ANT for a long time now and did very well at the SCG Invitation in Los Angeles 3 months ago.
Greg Mitchell has been posting on the TES forum and playing TES for a long time now, got unlucky against Chalice of the Void.dec after going 8-1 in the Swiss.

I'm not sure which performance you are referring to, but good Storm pilots will place well regardless of the metagame.

[Lemnear]

Huh? What?

Adam Prosak has been on ANT for a long time now and did very well at the SCG Invitation in Los Angeles 3 months ago.
Greg Mitchell has been posting on the TES forum and playing TES for a long time now, got unlucky against Chalice of the Void.dec after going 8-1 in the Swiss.

I'm not sure which performance you are referring to, but good Storm pilots will place well regardless of the metagame.

Who's talking about SCG or experienced players like Adam, Greg, Bryant or Co. in general? I pick my infos from a wider range of forums and european results in addition to SCG and notice a significant boost in popularity but not performance in addition to some rants

[Koby]

So this weekend ANT lost to Elves in the invitational QF, ANT lost to Jund in the open QF and TES lost to Loam in another open QF. Le wut?

All this proves is, that a lot more people seem to pick up storm After it won 2 SCG tournaments in a row but lack any experience with the archtype and fail. I love it that you can't just copy-paste a decklist and perform well with storm aside from the no-brainer starting hands.

It's not uncommon that ANT can loose to Jund and Elves. Once the Player keeps a slow Hand with cantrips he got raced by elves or junds discard. TES loosing to Loam however is hardly explainable due to my knowledge

Who's talking about SCG or experienced players like Adam, Greg, Bryant or Co. in general? I pick my infos from a wider range of forums and european results in addition to SCG and notice a significant boost in popularity but not performance in addition to some rants

Then share them. There's no doubt that players jumping on the bandwagon and attempting to Count to Ten will do poorly. Its not an archetype like Jund that can be learned mid round.

Anyways, nothing from these decks point to anything dominating in Legacy. These decks are safe for the next three months.

[Lemnear]

Then share them. There's no doubt that players jumping on the bandwagon and attempting to Count to Ten will do poorly. Its not an archetype like Jund that can be learned mid round.

Anyways, nothing from these decks point to anything dominating in Legacy. These decks are safe for the next three months.

No one has the intention to build a wall ... erm ban brainstorm XP

Seriously, I would never advocate for hitting storm combo

[xfxf]

I am not one to do personal attacks, and I don't intend to, but I'm pretty convinced at this point that there's a very strong possibility that Drago is outright trolling this whole thread.

[Tao]

I am not one to do personal attacks, and I don't intend to, but I'm pretty convinced at this point that there's a very strong possibility that Drago is outright trolling this whole thread.

And I am convinced that everyone who thinks that Brainstorm is not ban-worthily overpowered is an idiot or a noob.

I would rather consider it trolling to cherrypick ONE tournament that BARELY misses 50% of the maximum number of a certain card in the top16 and "only" has 12 copies in the top8 as evidence that said card isn't broken.

[xfxf]

It's not one tournament man, it's happening on a regular basis one or twice each month (speaking for SCGs).

[Vacrix]

Take away Brainstorm and there will still be a best card in the format that holds together some archetype that wrecks shit. What do you really want it to be?


Brainstorm is the safest version of that card. It costs 1 so its playable early on in a very fast format. Its good in any stage of the game provided you build around it. Its also skill intensive; a well played Brainstorm makes or breaks the game. One could also say that Brainstorm permits control decks to quell the formats ever present expansion; the greater the card pool expands, the more potential for format breaking combos. A strong presence of control decks allows the combo flavor of the month to change at speeds where Dredge and TES will ultimately oscillate as the best ones whenever the format shifts strongly to something for a short duration. But Brainstorm is more important than just holding back combo; its played in combo decks as well. Spiral Tide, SnT variants, Storm combo, etc. However, these decks could still exist without Brainstorm, while aggro control decks and control decks would have slightly more trouble. If you banned Brainstorm, you'd have to ban LED and a whole slew of other things that would naturally get better with Brainstorm's absence. Granted, there are replacement cantrips for Brainstorm... or are there?


You can't ban Brainstorm, but what WotC can do is print cards that allow the current format to digress a little more. I'd say black has fallen from power outside of combo. What we want is a discard deck that can put the game away against an opponent who just wants to sit back and cantrip their way into permission, spot removal, etc. To do that, WotC has to print something that can't be played along side Brainstorm.

[Tao]

It's not one tournament man, it's happening on a regular basis one or twice each month (speaking for SCGs).

Lol. Cards have regularly been banned for these performances that were carefully cherry-picked to defend Brainstorm (from far more grotesque numbers).

[AEnesidem]

And I am convinced that everyone who thinks that Brainstorm is not ban-worthily overpowered is an idiot or a noob.

I would rather consider it trolling to cherrypick ONE tournament that BARELY misses 50% of the maximum number of a certain card in the top16 and "only" has 12 copies in the top8 as evidence that said card isn't broken.

Here comes the Westboro baptist church of Magic!

[xfxf]

I don't understand why some people are so hell-bent on getting Brainstorm banned and playing Modern with dual lands. We already have Modern decks being played in this format with dual lands (Jund) so if you like the experience ask Wizards to reprint dual lands in Modern frames instead.

Brainstorm is broken. So is S&T, so is Hymn to Tourach, so is Griselbrand, so is Jace 2.0, so is Dark Ritual, so is LED, so are dual lands. This is the format of semi-broken to broken things. For people who want full on broken we have Vintage. For people who want completely unbroken Magic we have Modern. Just go play it if you're not happy with Legacy as it is. You have the option.

Also I don't know which cherry picking you're talking about as I never presented any examples or any data. Cherrypicking NULL?

Edit: As far as bringing in new blood, if this elitist attidue is driving away new players good riddance. I'd rather play my 10 people weeklies than having 50 people who think the most powerful thing you should be doing is casting Preordain. However from what I've seen new players get into Legacy because you can do shit like casting Hymn to Tourach, in response Branstrom->Fetch->Spell Pierce in response Daze biatch.

[DragoFireheart]

I am not one to do personal attacks, and I don't intend to, but I'm pretty convinced at this point that there's a very strong possibility that Drago is outright trolling this whole thread.

Because having a different opinion is trolling. See: my rant from a year ago about the three reasons why legacy will die off.

The problem with saying "oh, but WotC can print stuff..." is that WotC doesn't give a shit about Legacy. If WotC cared about Legacy, Modern would not exist. Also, two tournaments with less blue decks doesn't mean that Blue decks are "fair", it just means less people played blue decks. Without looking, I'm guessing that blue decks in other major tournaments made a larger showing than recently.

I'd love to see Mind Twist be unbanned. I'd love that card in BUg Control.

-Matt

Same. I have and see no issues with it.

Edit: As far as bringing in new blood, if this elitist attidue is driving away new players good riddance.

Remember who said this when Legacy dies out.