[Deck] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils)

[Nickm]

@Thomas Dowd
I have not been very impressed with Carpet of Flowers. It is too easy to play around for the decks where it is best. Usually daze decks. The last time I played it it resolved twice during the tournament and activated for one mana one time.
What do you think about ignorant bliss vs. dark confidant. Does anyone ever side in ignorant bliss against non-hymn discard decks?

I run carpet in my sideboard flex spots when I expect allot of RUG, and it has always been good for me.

I haven't tested Ignorant Bliss but it seems terrible. On the draw it stops neither Hymn or cc1 discard, it also forces you to fetch out a red dual early which is not something I want to do against a wasteland deck like JUND. If Hymn is that big in your meta I feel like you better off running Divert, which I did test and was underwhelming.

[nodahero]

On the question of ignorant bliss, is it worth playing without a way to tutor for it? As a two of I doubt we will have it in hand when we want it.

[Lemnear]

On the question of ignorant bliss, is it worth playing without a way to tutor for it? As a two of I doubt we will have it in hand when we want it.

Why would you waste a tutor-effect for ignorant bliss over something that really matters? Would you keep a Bliss in your ponder paired with crap or shuffle to draw something like Infernal or LED?

[Pdingo]

@ Ignorant Bliss

I like it, i switch them with confis all the time. For the GP Strassburg i use 2 bliss+other hate for 4 confis.
I mean when the oppenent play a Hymn or a Thoughtseize etc. the discard goes into nothing and with confi can he discard still a good card and the BoBs can be handle with removal.
Sometimes you don't draw that what you needed with the BoB...
I prefer Bliss.

[Lemnear]

@ Ignorant Bliss

I like it, i switch them with confis all the time. For the GP Strassburg i use 2 bliss+other hate for 4 confis.
I mean when the oppenent play a Hymn or a Thoughtseize etc. the discard goes into nothing and with confi can he discard still a good card and the BoBs can be handle with removal.
Sometimes you don't draw that what you needed with the BoB...
I prefer Bliss.

How does Bliss help you drawing "what you need"? How does it help you against Thoughtseize Turn 1/2 unless you are willing to waste a Petal.

The only cards you mind being discarded is Infernal Tutor.

[jin]

How does Bliss help you drawing "what you need"? How does it help you against Thoughtseize Turn 1/2 unless you are willing to waste a Petal.

The only cards you mind being discarded is Infernal Tutor.

The purpose of Ignorant Bliss is not to 'shut down' discard, but to compliment Brainstorm in protecting your important spells. If by chance you are forced to use your BS early to protect from discard, and they draw more discard, Ignorant Bliss provides this support.

If you you are holding both BS and Bliss in your hand during a discard spell, you may opt to use Bliss over BS to conserve it for the combo turn. Virtually, Bliss adds 2 more cards to your deck that can play around discard spells. That's all...

[Lemnear]

The purpose of Ignorant Bliss is not to 'shut down' discard, but to compliment Brainstorm in protecting your important spells. If by chance you are forced to use your BS early to protect from discard, and they draw more discard, Ignorant Bliss provides this support.

If you you are holding both BS and Bliss in your hand during a discard spell, you may opt to use Bliss over BS to conserve it for the combo turn. Virtually, Bliss adds 2 more cards to your deck that can play around discard spells. That's all...

That are your important spells aside IT? LED's you play out anyways or the redundant cantrips or Rituals?

Don't I always read in this thread that ANT is "resistant to discard" anyways? /sarcasm

[jin]

That are your important spells aside IT? LED's you play out anyways or the redundant cantrips or Rituals?

Don't I always read in this thread that ANT is "resistant to discard" anyways? /sarcasm

I don't understand your question. Your important spells depend on the hand you're shaping. Storm players should know this.

If you are short on mana, then that's the important spell. If you are protecting a storm engine, then that is your spell. If you are protecting the win con, then that is your spell. The point is, it depends on the hand you are shaping, but because the goal of hand disruption is to disrupt your best cards or to attack your card advantage, spells like Ignorant Bliss and Brainstorm can help to mitigate those effects.

Resistant to discard =/= discard proof.. I think you are over generalizing a bit.

[Pdingo]

@Lemnear

I can only agree with Jin.

What do you prefer my friend?;)

[Lemnear]

I don't think fetching a red dual just for Bliss is wise. Neither would be burning a Petal for it. In most cases the Turn 1 Thoughtseize/IoK can't be dodged anyways. To be in-time you either need to fetch a Volcanic for Bliss very soon or have to burn a Petal. Neither option is really good for ANT. Confidant would do much more for you in the long and grindy games vs. BG. Bliss can be a blessing if you dodge a single Hymn but Bob will win vs. a flurry of discard-Spells over several turns while dealing damage.

If preventing your spells from discard is your goal, your own discard can be used for that purpose without the need to generate the ugly 1R. I don't think the rare situations where Bliss shines are worth the SB slot

[jin]

@Lemnear

I can only agree with Jin.

What do you prefer my friend?;)

Right now I'm on the Ignorant Bliss plan, and it has been serving me well. I'm a type of player who prefers to have the SB compliment my main deck components rather than have a transformational SB. Therefore, my SB is an extension of my MB. The Ignorant Bliss acts as BS 5-6 VS discard decks. I play that rather than playing Dark Confidants; although some may argue that Bob serves as Ad Nauseam 2-5. I think they are both valid plans, but in order to save SB space, I'm playing the Bliss right now. It seems ok so far.

Dark Confidant used to be strong when it was a new tech, but now with the prevalence of burns and the unsurprising creature for ANT post board, it has really gone down in effectiveness. I rather board in less things and maintain my efficiency as a storm deck than to clutter the post board game with a creature that doesn't help much in generating storm vs discard, immediately.

That said, I feel that Dark Confidant in the SB keeps BWx decks honest post board. Do they keep in Sword to Plowshares? Do they take them out? It's a mystery.

[Danserious]

Corner case scenario with ignorant bliss is that you could cast infernal tutor, respond with bliss and be hellbent. Still seems like a clunker to me.

[AEnesidem]

To whom mnay interest:

I think this is the most optimal list:

http://www.tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=10493

As said, Timo is ritgh about strategies on how to side, Base and Side,

You all just need to agree with his conclusions.

The other list, Grim Tutor and No B.Wish is the other ANT build which is also another good approach.

I just wanted to say I tested that Timo List and as Timo said, is simply broken.

Options:
0/1 Moxen instead 14/15 Lands.
No other changes should be made to the List.

A point, Therapy is in conjuntion with LED and I.T. is one of the bests cards in the deck.

Quite funny you say that, cause i heard that Timo has dropped the Burning wish plan already.

[lordofthepit]

For those of you who run Grim Tutor, how many copies do you run?

I'm considering acquiring one copy right now, but I don't really want to do that unless it enables me to play a more optimal version of ANT (I feel like Prosak's build is a bit lacking for gas). I know Timo Schunemann's list from GP Amsterdam had a copy in the sideboard, but it sounds like it's fallen out of favor.

[SaberTooth]

Quite funny you say that, cause i heard that Timo has dropped the Burning wish plan already.

ye? where? i'll like to read this things, i mean, he won a gp and split finals in ovino with the same list soo

[Asthereal]

Wait, is someone seriously considering Ignorant Bliss in ANT?
I'd even sooner consider Divert or something. That at least costs just U.
Ignorant Bliss is just terrible in my opinion.

[Pdingo]

Yes i prefer Bliss, why i should use a bad counter who makes nothing?

[JJ-JKidd]

Quite funny you say that, cause i heard that Timo has dropped the Burning wish plan already.

Never gonna drop Burning Wish. Had a game, we both in topdeck mode, and opponent had 2 creatures in play. I topdeck BWish, cast for Dim Ret., and proceeded to win.

This is in addition to BWish into IGG wins, Grapeshot for lethal around a Teeg, Pyroclasm against 2 hatebears, wishing for a discard spell, among others.

[Lemnear]

Like that one for the discard.decs?

[Asthereal]

That's like a Dark Confidant that only works when you're in deep shit.
I'd like my Confi to also work when I'm in shallow shit.

I'm not saying 'play Divert'. I'm saying Divert is less bad than the other crap.
I don't see why we would side bad cards to hate discard in the first place.
I feel Past in Flames is enough to beat discard decks usually.
You can side an additional one in, or Wish for a second, if you're on the Wish plan.
If they draw a God hand and discard AND exile important stuff, then you're losing anyway.