Modern Banned List

[Fade]

That is not what you initially said. You said "it does not take longer than 8 minutes on an average for me to draw my entire deck". Showing your opponent one sequence/loop, then explaining how it'll repeat, all within 8 minutes, is very different than physically repeating the loop 45-50 times in order to draw your deck within the same 8 minute timeframe. You've now given me two completely different scenarios, which one is it?

I have stated it before that as long as my opponent acknowledges that they are F6'd and can't interact, then yes I can draw my entire deck in 8 minutes or less. Within this time, I lay my hand on the table and allow them to see all of the sunrises I draw. It is up to them to concede if they want. Otherwise, I continue to "goldfish" the deck. I assure you it does not take more than 8 minutes to move ~8 eggs into the graveyard, draw ~8 cards from doing this, cast a second sunrise, put any draw triggers on the stack, bauble the sunrise to the bottom, crack a fetch/ghost, and then repeat until you have drawn your library.

After doing this for 100+ games you get used to the motions and if you feel really lazy can just put all the egg triggers on the stack to quickly draw cards instead of individually. Once you hit the pyrite spellbomb and have drawn your deck the loop is elementary and can be explained in half a minute.

[JDK]

- the deck wasn't skill intensive, it required some basic ordering but never had to enter combat or interact with targeted discard or explore multiple avenues to victory (e.g. Legacy TES), it simply went off or didn't - playing some silence effects or basic bounce to salvage game two (if there was a game 2)

- the deck has humiliating on camera examples some with players leaving the table of pro level events whilst their opponent dicked about with simple sequencing

- its presence adds nothing to the modern format in the way of attracting players, imagine graduating standard guy sits down and plays against eggs, i'm sure he'd be back for more interactive fun the next week

- just a boring, binary deck, i draw hate cards and play first and win, i don't draw hate cards and lose - what a great match

Nobody claimed it was a skill-intensive deck (not that I know of ^^). I am curious however why you mention entering combat...is combat math now the measurement for "real" skill? What do you mean by not "interacting with targeted discard"? If you are referring to Leyline of Sanctity: Sideboarding is actually interaction with this kind of "hate".

There's one video footage I know of, which involves Brian Kibler. He played a creature deck and complains about his lack of interaction with combo. Yeah...

Another irrelevant point in terms of the banning discussion. Ban cards because a deck doesn't attract players to the format? On the other hand it was a cheap deck and an interesting choice for ex-Storm players.

If you break games down to this kind or argument let's put it this way: I draw fuel and do something to win vs I don't draw fuel and lose...that's every fucking match...

You don't like Eggs, we get it.

[Phoenix Ignition]

So because people think a deck is not fun to watch, then it should be banned... This logic is spot on.

I view magic as a fun activity. It is fun both to play and watch others play. I think watching someone play eggs was boring, and playing against eggs in person is also boring. Therefore I am a fan of banning it. Please explain my logical fallacy.

[Mr. Froggy]

"skilled Eggs pilots" (lol) and egg zealots are just pissing into the wind at this point ... it's wotc's eternal format for standard 'graduates'

- the deck wasn't skill intensive, it required some basic ordering but never had to enter combat or interact with targeted discard or explore multiple avenues to victory (e.g. Legacy TES), it simply went off or didn't - playing some silence effects or basic bounce to salvage game two (if there was a game 2)

- the deck has humiliating on camera examples some with players leaving the table of pro level events whilst their opponent dicked about with simple sequencing

- its presence adds nothing to the modern format in the way of attracting players, imagine graduating standard guy sits down and plays against eggs, i'm sure he'd be back for more interactive fun the next week

- just a boring, binary deck, i draw hate cards and play first and win, i don't draw hate cards and lose - what a great match

Again if the banned list weren't 50 cards long it's likely this deck wouldn't even exist (Dredge might be a faster GY based combo deck? Mental Misstep might be a universal solvent for fair decks to interact whilst tapped out? Wild Nacatyl might be fast enough to kill before the fundamental turn for eggs) ... but that's where we are

I see that you hate the deck. As for it being boring when I used to play it back in Ext, I always found it fun. It's a matter of opinion.

[Fade]

I view magic as a fun activity. It is fun both to play and watch others play. I think watching someone play eggs was boring, and playing against eggs in person is also boring. Therefore I am a fan of banning it. Please explain my logical fallacy.

I find deck X to be boring to watch/play against. Therefore, I'm a fan of banning deck X. Let deck X be any deck in any format. In modern, it could be Jund, Gifts, Pod, UWR, really anything.

It's similar to the whole logic that this deck/card is too good and it should be banned argument with no real justified reason on why it should be banned. Eggs isn't dominating the format. There are multitudes of hate cards against it and it can be easily beaten. Why limit a player's deck choice just because you or the masses don't find it interesting to watch when there are plenty of people who love playing that kind of magic for fun?

[(nameless one)]

I find that a Chalice at one can really shut down Eggs, as long as you have a win condition.

[Phoenix Ignition]

I find deck X to be boring to watch/play against. Therefore, I'm a fan of banning deck X. Let deck X be any deck in any format. In modern, it could be Jund, Gifts, Pod, UWR, really anything.

It's similar to the whole logic that this deck/card is too good and it should be banned argument with no real justified reason on why it should be banned. Eggs isn't dominating the format. There are multitudes of hate cards against it and it can be easily beaten. Why limit a player's deck choice just because you or the masses don't find it interesting to watch when there are plenty of people who love playing that kind of magic for fun?

I don't like deck X. I'm a fan of them banning a card to make deck X no longer a deck.

Not a single thing wrong with my logic. My enjoyment doesn't come from you having fun with playing eggs. What aren't you getting here?

[Fade]

I don't like deck X. I'm a fan of them banning a card to make deck X no longer a deck.

Not a single thing wrong with my logic. My enjoyment doesn't come from you having fun with playing eggs. What aren't you getting here?

Logic and reasoning are closely related and the expression I used was more related to your reasoning behind banning a deck. You are correct, your logic is fine, your reasoning on the other hand is what I disagree with.

[Technics]

I don't like deck X. I'm a fan of them banning a card to make deck X no longer a deck.

Not a single thing wrong with my logic. My enjoyment doesn't come from you having fun with playing eggs. What aren't you getting here?

I only enjoy storm and eggs. I'm a fan of banning every card in the format not in those two decks. Nothing wrong with my logic.

[Phoenix Ignition]

I only enjoy storm and eggs. I'm a fan of banning every card in the format not in those two decks. Nothing wrong with my logic.

This is accurate. It's also a very strange attempt to troll me? I'm not getting the troll part of it but I know that's the intent.

[bkemke]

Wow, modern players are getting the shaft. Look at these awesome deck lists from the debut of modern at the community cup. Actually looks like a fun format:
https://www.wizards.com/magic/magazi...mtgoccup11/thu

[Koby]

I am disappoint that Griselbrand is still free from the Helvault. Time to jam some more Turn 2 wins until WotC gets the message I suppose.

[JDK]

This is accurate. It's also a very strange attempt to troll me? I'm not getting the troll part of it but I know that's the intent.

What should be banned and what you don't like are different things. Therefor your logic isn't wrong, it's just not useful for a discussion (as your statement is an expression of your feelings - which is perfectly fine, but nothing to reason with - can be taken ad absurdum easily).

[feline]

Well I finished off Eggs, got the last 2 Second Sunrises at SCG Seattle, probably within a few hours of the banning announcement, but whatever it was just 24 bucks!

The type's of decks I'd like to play though, are all banned in Modern, or just not viable, obviously Storm took a hit, now eggs, and yet there's no real control decks in Modern, it's all aggro & midrange stuff, hopefully some cool cards get printed over the course of the upcoming sets, & some potential new combo decks come out or something that are viable.

[nedleeds]

Nobody claimed it was a skill-intensive deck (not that I know of ^^). I am curious however why you mention entering combat...is combat math now the measurement for "real" skill? What do you mean by not "interacting with targeted discard"? If you are referring to Leyline of Sanctity: Sideboarding is actually interaction with this kind of "hate".

world's best Eggs players

even for skilled Eggs pilots

I mean that a deck that at no point has to enter combat discards 1/3 of magics rules, a deck that doesn't interact at all with its opponent (through targeted discard ... you know Duress, Thoughtseize???) sheds another 1/3 of the possibilities leaving a pretty linear 5th grade math problem. Some people used the term skill in conjunction with Eggs and it made me laugh because the deck eschews 80% of the things required to be a decent magic player. Sideboarding white leyline is interaction? Please ... really you are making yourself look silly. Is finding it in your opening 7 also "skill intensive"?

Another irrelevant point in terms of the banning discussion. Ban cards because a deck doesn't attract players to the format? On the other hand it was a cheap deck and an interesting choice for ex-Storm players.

So it's cheap so it should stick around? Yes lets go to a 64 person tourney and have 58 people playing this pile of irritating shit. Wow. What a great game, come buy our packs! Play our premier eternal format! Walk the planes! What where are everyones opponents? Why are half the people reading iPads? ... no no it's not solitaire the other players are all in the bathroom. Having a reasonable 2 player game is part of competitive play, unfortunately eggs doesn't / didn't do that. Having the format include a highly competitive one player matchup is going to kill the format. If 60 people bring mid range creature decks of various colors to a 100 person modern tourney everyone has a match, if 60 people brought eggs to a 100 person modern tourney you'd have a fucking slumber party.

If you want non interactive combo then play Legacy, how many times does wizards have to make that clear ??? Somebody might even start an internet message board devoted to Legacy and you could post your deck ideas there.

If you break games down to this kind or argument let's put it this way: I draw fuel and do something to win vs I don't draw fuel and lose...that's every fucking match...

No. It's not ... eggs simply goes limp to certain narrow hate cards, when in play the deck can't do anything but hope to have a bounce / removal effect. In a game of 2 player magic we might have a variety of effects, discard, removal, direct damage that doubles as removal, combat interactions. Eggs versus the g/w player is have I mulled to multiple hate effects and has humpty found echoing truth. Wow. Fun.

You don't like Eggs, we get it.

Thanks.

[JDK]

I mean that a deck that at no point has to enter combat discards 1/3 of magics rules, a deck that doesn't interact at all with its opponent (through targeted discard ... you know Duress, Thoughtseize???) sheds another 1/3 of the possibilities leaving a pretty linear 5th grade math problem. Some people used the term skill in conjunction with Eggs and it made me laugh because the deck eschews 80% of the things required to be a decent magic player. Sideboarding white leyline is interaction? Please ... really you are making yourself look silly. Is finding it in your opening 7 also "skill intensive"?

So a deck not playing targeted Discard and a lack of combat usage is not skill-intensive? "Skilled eggs players" doesn't mean they are geniuses at playing MTG, it just means they are good at playing this specific deck. Before you let us know about your polemics consider that even Eggs needs some skill. If you don't see that, okay, but talking about combat math and 5th grad math problems...

I didn't say that boarding Leyline in particular is skill-intensive. I just called it interaction, because I misunderstood your "interact with targeted discard" (by which apparently you mean "play targeted discard").

So it's cheap so it should stick around?

You said it didn't attract people to the format. I said it's cheap, which is a legitimate reason to not believe so, as there aren't many competitively viable budget decks out there. Don't let your hate blind your interpretation skills, please.

If you want non interactive combo then play Legacy, how many times does wizards have to make that clear ??? Somebody might even start an internet message board devoted to Legacy and you could post your deck ideas there.

"non interactive"?
Actually you can interact with Eggs. I've given examples in one of my previous posts and it doesn't take a good player to figure out how. Tapping creatures won't cut it in most cases, of course. ;)

No. It's not ... eggs simply goes limp to certain narrow hate cards, when in play the deck can't do anything but hope to have a bounce / removal effect. In a game of 2 player magic we might have a variety of effects, discard, removal, direct damage that doubles as removal, combat interactions. Eggs versus the g/w player is have I mulled to multiple hate effects and has humpty found echoing truth. Wow. Fun.

Of course it is. If you don't draw certain cards against certain other cards you are going to lose. That's a huge part of the game in every format and in every single match. No fun for you? Too bad, deal with it (in case of eggs you won't have to anymore at least). If you are just hateful towards Eggs because it's a straight-forward combo like SnT, so be it, but please don't argue for the sake of arguing.

[joemauer]

I am disappoint that Griselbrand is still free from the Helvault. Time to jam some more Turn 2 wins until WotC gets the message I suppose.

Not sure why you guys are surprised/riled up with the fact that eggs got banned. I am more surprised Grizzlebrand did not get banned as well, but it will probably happen sooner or later.

The sad thing is that with the careful dismantling of combo in Modern, WotC is pretty much reassuring us that Force of Will won't be reprinted in a traditional set any time soon.

[Fade]

Not sure why you guys are surprised/riled up with the fact that eggs got banned. I am more surprised Grizzlebrand did not get banned as well, but it will probably happen sooner or later.

The sad thing is that with the careful dismantling of combo in Modern, WotC is pretty much reassuring us that Force of Will won't be reprinted in a traditional set any time soon.

For me and a lot of other people, it was the reasoning of making tournaments last longer. A lot of players who have played the deck can finish 3 games without going to time and it was really only the pilots who have just picked up the deck and are learning how to play it in the tournament that went to time. I would've rather them say they don't want combo decks in the format or they thought Eggs was too dominate (not that I agree with it being a dominate archetype in Modern).

[DragoFireheart]

lulz, critical Eggs card got banned but Griselbanned didn't.

[JDK]

Actually I can get behind the reasoning they gave us. Not because I think the deck is an extra-turns contenter per se, but because there actually ARE slower players. If they'd just take out Top in Legacy as well for this reason. T_T