Miracle Control

[Dzra]

It's her ability worth it? I'll test her instead of Venser for a while and will see

I definitely wouldn't replace Venser with her. Her ability seems marginal for us at best, let alone costing 4 mana. Honestly, Stifle is only playable in RUG because it operates as a Stone Rain for more often than not. You could try Spellstutter Sprite, but I have trouble imagining it being too relevant without equipment.

I am not sure why but enchantress seems to be popular in the modo tournament practice room.
Here is a match I just recorded vs GWu enchantress (splashing for energy field from what I saw)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WcJjiwfrpaU

Also... just got around to watching this. Everything seems fairly straight forward except I'm curious why you decided to upkeep cast the Clique @13:19. It's not an unreasonable play, especially since he already blew one Enchantress's Prescience the turn before. However, since you have Counterspell, you might as well leave it up and hope to and gain a little tempo off any relevant play he tries to make. If he doesn't do anything relevant (which seems most likely), then you can always Clique him EoT. If he does, you Counter and get to Clique him on his next upkeep (letting you see an additional draw from each of your hands for very little downside).

PS... I like that look when you see the Leyline off Jace.

[kaosjr]

Below is my current list, I'm kind of wanting to play the 4th swords but can't really find room. I want D-sphere for sneak and show and stoneblade/the mirror. If i cut the tutor it would replace the 4th counterbalance. Any ideas about that or anything else?

4 Sensei’s Divining Top
4 Brainstorm
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
3 Swords to Plowshares
1 Moat
3 Terminus
3 Spell Pierce
1 Enlightened Tutor
3 Counterbalance
1 Counterspell
3 Force of Will
1 Misdirection
1 Rest in Peace
1 Detention Sphere
3 Vendilion Clique
1 Venser, Shaper Savant
2 Entreat the Angels

22 Lands

4 Flooded Strand
3 Misty Rainforest
1 Scalding Tarn
1 Arid Mesa
4 Island
2 Plains
2 Tundra
2 Volcanic Island
1 Mystic Gate
2 Karakas

Sideboard


2 Misdirection
1 Blue Elemental Blast
2 Red Elemental Blast
2 Rest in Peace
1 Venser, Shaper Savant
1 Entreat the Angels
1 Pithing Needle
1 Celestial Purge
1 Disenchant
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Humility
1 Sulfur Elemental

[cschacal]

I'd remove the tutor, the moat, one terminus, the detention sphere, the RIP, and the misdirection and I'd add one swords to plowshares, 3 snapcasters, one engineered explosives and a supreme verdict and you will be running the same cards as me
I like to play with snapcasters to recycle the swords. That allows to play without the third terminus in my opinion and having one less miracle card in the deck is good. In the sideboard I'd remove one Venser and will add one more pithing needle. Also remove the RIPs and add 3 surgical extractions.

[Dzra]

Below is my current list, I'm kind of wanting to play the 4th swords but can't really find room. I want D-sphere for sneak and show and stoneblade/the mirror. If i cut the tutor it would replace the 4th counterbalance. Any ideas about that or anything else?

I don't think I'd cut Tutor. You can easily either cut Moat or move it to the board.

[guybrush3]

I guys, i was thinking in making a different version of this miracle deck by cutting out WHITE and by ADDING RED in small amounts.
This would be some of the cards:

a couple of erratic Explosion
grim lavamancer
lightining bolt
figure of destiny

Reasonable Miracle cards:

Thunderous Wrath
Bonfire of the Damned


maybe
Reforge the Soul (can't think why now)
Temporal Mastery(why aren't we playing this?)

Explosion could make serious damage in case you want to hit the opponent with a Force of will/Thunderous Wrath
for 5/6 damage. Wouldn't be difficult to place after MD these cards on top of your deck for this alternative choice. Explosion is also able to remove unwanted lands from the top of the deck.


These are just a couple of ideas i had in mind... hope ive been usefull..maybe not!
Thanks for reading
edit: Increasing Vengeance is a hell of a card :) maybe worth a spot here :)

[oarsman]

It's possible this could work as a deck. But I don't think it can be a control deck. You would need to have some sort of combo finish like the Helm of Awakening/Grapeshot decks, or else play as a burn deck that also has counters.

Here is a specific problem:
Opponent goes first and plays Ponder. Then on the next turn plays a fetchland and makes a Tarmogoyf.


None of the cards you suggested are particularly good at dealing with this.

[twndomn]

Below is my current list, I'm kind of wanting to play the 4th swords but can't really find room. I want D-sphere for sneak and show and stoneblade/the mirror. If i cut the tutor it would replace the 4th counterbalance. Any ideas about that or anything else?

Every time I play D-sphere against sneak and show, they would pyroblast/REB the D-sphere like nothing. If you really want to secure that MU, I would just recommend Oblivion Ring.

Top + erratic Explosion + draco, the combo back in the days. While it does bring back memory, it's really a combo deck, not related to Miracle Control.

[Poron]

mm at this point, I'd stay on colors and play Aethermage's Touch + Emrakul. It's the same a 2 cards combo, it stays on colors and apart from the damages it has annihilator 6.

Also notice the Instant speed to make it a cool EOT surprise.
The only bad thing is that I don't really know how to tutor an Emrakul

[guybrush3]

It's possible this could work as a deck. But I don't think it can be a control deck. You would need to have some sort of combo finish like the Helm of Awakening/Grapeshot decks, or else play as a burn deck that also has counters.

Here is a specific problem:
Opponent goes first and plays Ponder. Then on the next turn plays a fetchland and makes a Tarmogoyf.


None of the cards you suggested are particularly good at dealing with this.

mmm,so you are saying that StP is the solution with white to this problem and red doesn't have one? well x4 cards that does 5 damage are a solution i would say.
Yes it would be more a miracle U/R burn/counter deck of course that is what i was suggesting to u all ... i mean we can kill with grim and burns and going explosion forces/jace ..plus Jace is a finisher himself too...i wouldn't go Helm combo style. Perhaps add something else...
I think the miracle timewalk could do fine also...even 1.

mm at this point, I'd stay on colors and play Æthermage's Touch + Emrakul. It's the same a 2 cards combo, it stays on colors and apart from the damages it has annihilator 6.

Also notice the Instant speed to make it a cool EOT surprise.
The only bad thing is that I don't really know how to tutor an Emrakul

about what u are suggesting take a look at this in a different thread: last post http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...R-Delver/page4

Top + erratic Explosion + draco, the combo back in the days. While it does bring back memory, it's really a combo deck, not related to Miracle Control.

mmm yes erratic has been explored before but in a deck where manipulating the top cards of your deck due to counterbalance is very ofter i think i would give a try to play it. Draco is a dead card without the other ones, Miracles aren't. We play for their miracle cost but due to they high conv mana cost they can be used as bombs too. I see quite a synergy...


Trying to create a decklist for U/R miracle version:
5 Island
4 Flooded Strand
4 Tundra -> volcanic island
2 Plains-> mountain
1 Karakas->mountain
2 Volcanic Island->island
4 Misty Rainforest
3 Snapcaster Mage->keep2, 1 slot free
2 Vendilion Clique->2grim lavamancer
4 Brainstorm
3 Terminus->3slots
4 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Swords to Plowshares->4slots
4 Force of Will
4 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
3 Counterbalance
2 Spell Pierce
2 Counterspell
3 Entreat the Angels->3slots
11 slots free ->third grim lavamance,2erratic Explosion , 4Thunderous Wrath , 2 Bonfire of the Damned , 2 Temporal Mastery

i remember you that erratic is a 3cmc burn spell always it will only change the damage it will do...for top damage u have Jace,Force,Wrath,TMastery...(ps: with 5 mana u can recast it with snapster).

[zerzab11]

I like this direction with playing red. Lightning Bolt is just much more versatile imo, racing with Snap+Bolt, or killing opposing walker with ease is cool (red blast ind the board)

However I think Tarmogoyf, as oarsman pointed out, can cause problems. That's why I play a very cool CounterTop Grixis Build (which a friend invented) that plays 2 Explosives and 4 Baleful Strix maindeck, I like it quite much, and it feels strong. Maybe you could try this way^^

Sorry if this is offtopic ;)

EDIT: Oh and I wouldn't play so many Miracle spells (maybe one or two Bonefire), this just feels clunky imo, and cutting the Miracle spells is why I opted for Grixis (and maybe the only point where it is superior )

[Viridia]

Couls you post or pm a list for the grixis counterbalance deck?:)

[guybrush3]

I like this direction with playing red. Lightning Bolt is just much more versatile imo, racing with Snap+Bolt, or killing opposing walker with ease is cool (red blast ind the board)

However I think Tarmogoyf, as oarsman pointed out, can cause problems. That's why I play a very cool CounterTop Grixis Build (which a friend invented) that plays 2 Explosives and 4 Baleful Strix maindeck, I like it quite much, and it feels strong. Maybe you could try this way^^

Sorry if this is offtopic ;)

EDIT: Oh and I wouldn't play so many Miracle spells (maybe one or two Bonefire), this just feels clunky imo, and cutting the Miracle spells is why I opted for Grixis (and maybe the only point where it is superior )

no problem for the offtopic. I also was since this is about the miracle control deck,perhaps i should open a thread in new dev section about RU miracles...however i don't really see where tarmo would be a problem..we have counters we have direct damage that with grim could arrive at 7 (2+5, R-miracled)..we have jace bouncing... many solutions ..am i missing something?

edit:a pair of magma jets could be a nice adding since they scry for counterbalance...perhaps fire/ice

[cschacal]

Do you think Notion Thief will see some play in the Legacy sideboards? I think it is very good against us in an Esperblade sideboard.

[Einherjer]

Do you think Notion Thief will see some play in the Legacy sideboards? I think it is very good against us in an Esperblade sideboard.

Tell me one valid reason why Esperblade would need narrow sideboardcards vs Miracle?

[Julian23]

Nothion Thief or Jace, Notion Thief or Jace....I can't make up my mind, damn'it!

[twndomn]

Lightning Bolt and Magma Jet are dwarfed by Punishing Fire. Check this out:

By Takuya Takahashi

4 Scalding Tarn
4 Flooded Strand
3 Tundra
3 Grove of the Burnwillows
3 Island
2 Volcanic Island
2 Plains
1 Mystic Gate
1 Karakas

2 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Vendilion Clique

4 Force of Will
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Brainstorm
3 Terminus
3 Punishing Fire
2 Spell Pierce
1 Counterspell
1 Entreat the Angels

4 Sensei's Divining Top
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
3 Counterbalance
1 Detention Sphere
1 Batterskull

SIDEBOARD
2 Vendilion Clique
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Pithing Needle
1 Pyroblast
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Blood Moon
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Disenchant
2 Red Elemental Blast
1 Humility
1 Surgical Extraction
2 Rest in Peace


Explosion might be cool and catches opponent by surprise, but in all likelihood, takes too many turns to set it up, you might even need Boseiju to protect it. Since you don't want Thoughtseize or disruptions to get rid of Explosion, you want to keep it on top of library, so you can just set it up using Top. If you are just flipping for 3~4 damages because you have Clique or Jace on deck, it's a waste of slot, should have been Punishing Fire instead.

[Dzra]

Tell me one valid reason why Esperblade would need narrow sideboardcards vs Miracle?

I'm not saying it'll see play (... at 3 mana or if it had evasion then I could definitely see it being played); however, it's hardly a narrow sideboard card. You could basically bring it in against any deck with Jace, plus some. I can think of Shardless BUG, Esperblade, Miracles, and UB Tezzerat. It might even be good against the combo decks since basically every one of them relies on cantrips, not to mention High Tide desperately needing its draw spells or how important Griselbrand's draw 7 is.

Usually I'd say that creatures with Enter the Battlefield abilities are better because even when they are removed, you still got value. The thing about Notion Thief is that the Flash almost guarantees that you'll get at least one use out of him. At worst, if you Flash him in response to a Ponder you've 3-for-1'd them (3/1 body, -1 card for them, +1 card for you). If you sandbag for a Brainstorm then you are getting a ridiculous 7-for-1 (3/1 body, -3 cards for them, +3 cards for you). It seems hard to come back from that.

(And just to confirm that I've heard/understood this correctly... Notion Thief in response to your Brainstorm makes them Ancestral and makes you put back two cards, yes?)

[Koby]

(And just to confirm that I've heard/understood this correctly... Notion Thief in response to your Brainstorm makes them Ancestral and makes you put back two cards, yes?)

Correct.

[sauce]

I hope everyone I play against spends slots in their 75 on Notion thief.

[The Treefolk Master]

Nothion Thief or Jace, Notion Thief or Jace....I can't make up my mind, damn'it!

Seriously, its not even close... One can kill Nimble Mongoose, the other one can't...