@Moat
I don't think Moat is really good in this aggro-control shell... Why build a fort when your gameplan is attacking with equipped creatures?
@Punishing fire from Aggro-loam/Loam-control/Punishing Jund
run wasteland... it's that good. Not only will you cripple their greedy mana and stop the P.Fire-engine, you will also limit their resources and make batterskull a problematic threat (as they need tons of mana to kill it with P.fire). Surgical nabbing fire/grove/loam is also great. If you keep them of CA you will win with souls or batterskull and they die with REB, Liliana and bolts in hand. The matchup is about finding your role and switch a lot. Both Engineered plague and Ancient grudge trumps our lategame but without cardselection it's not likely they will have everything all the time, adjust accordingly.
So I tried out Sorin and he did not get there (as I was told on this thread and by my girlfriend), but i'm in the business of trying different things right now. I cut 1 Lingering Souls and 1 Vendilion Clique maindeck for 2 Geist of St. Dude. He's pretty strong, but pretty bad in some match-ups, but his power alone might be worth the maindeck slots, but probably not.
As a somewhat related note, does anyone's list run 2 lingering souls instead of 3? If so, how much have you liked that?
Well I guess you can run 2 instead of 3 Souls if you don't play Intuition. It makes it way worse...Originally Posted by learntolove6
Vidi ran 4 FoW and 2 Souls maindeck in a SCG Open as he anticipated a heavy combo meta. Souls can definitely be cut down to 2 copies if you don't anticipate a lot of grindy matchups. Even 2 Souls / 2 Clique maindeck seems like a reasonable split as you aren't giving up a ton in the grindy matchups, but you still are getting a bit better in the combo matchups.
IMHO
4 FOW in MD is correct right now.
Anything less than 3 Lingering Souls is Blasphemy unless you are running 2 Souls + 1 Elspeth KE
Went 2-2 at a local tourney with my usual list other then I took out Humility for a Notion Thief in the board which I never used. I wanted to Notion Theif someone's Brainstorm or Jacestorm but maybe next time.
Round 1 vs Lands (0-1-1 loss cause I punted)
Game 1 goes really long and I punt game 1 because I was trying to play fast and I forgot to brainstorm with Jace and put my land back on top to not die to Dark Confidant. Did not bounce my Bob because was digging for the Vindicate for his Glacial Chasm. Flipped Supreme Verdict to Dark Confidant when I was at 3 and the next card was Vindicate with enough for lethal damage on the board :(. Game 2 ends in a draw because of time with him at 8 with only 1 more turn of Glacial Chasm and I have Dark Confidant, Clique w Karakas and Batterskull. Put his Life from the Loam on the bottom via Clique.
Round 2 vs Dredge (1-2 loss)
game 1 he wins really quickly as dredge does in game 1 unless you get the quick Stoneforge into batterskull which I do not.
game 2 I win off Rest in Peace.
game 3 he goes first and unmasks me taking my rest in peace since I can't play my spell snare or flusterstorm. He gets out an imp discards a dredger and kills me before I draw anything relavent.
Round 3 vs Storm (2-1 win)
Game 1 he can't find any gas and I get out a Dark Confidant and Souls tokens for the beat down.
Game 2 I duress his Wish and get out a Jace and start fate sealing him. He tries to go off but I have the flusterstorm He tries to go off again the turn before I ultimate but I have Flusterstorm + Snapcaster.
Round 4 vs Stoneblade mirror (1-0 win)
Game 1 I get my discard to remove his equipment and get out a top to get better quality and get out a bob for a short time before it gets Swords and he beats me pretty low with tokens before I get out Batterskull and eventually win with it. He concedes Game 2 to get food.
learntolove6
Dark Confidant and Baleful Strix serve different purposes. Dark Confidant assuming he survives gives you long term card advantage at the cost of life points which is ideal for grindy match ups. Baleful Strix gives you a 2 for 1 in most cases and is more for agressive match ups where a flying deathtouch blocker holds off their Tarmogoyf or other threat unless they remove it netting you a 2 for 1 since you drew a card and Strix either kills a creature or draws a removal spell.
I like Elspeth better then Sorin because the +3/+3 and Flying ability is pretty relavent for closing out games faster then life link vampires.
I haven't got around trying
I run 2 Lingering Souls and an Elspeth and I like it. Elspeth helps deal with Jace mirrors while being good against agressive decks. Also quite good against Liliana of the Veil.
@AEnesidem
Lingering Souls is better at protecting Jace making 2 tokens immediately which have flying but Elspeth is not hindered by graveyard hate and the +3/+3 and flying ability is quite good on creatures with equipment. I also found people boarding in Extractions against me to take out my Lingering Souls so Elspeth instead of the 3rd Souls helps in this case.
@thecrav
I been running Esper with Dark Confidant for years before there was a Stoneforge Mystic and the creature base was Mother of Runes, Dark Confidant, Meddling Mage, Jotun Grunt and Serra Avenger so I can't see not including Dark Confidant unless you drop black.
I haven't had an issue running Dark Confidant in vintage with 4 Force of Will + Blightsteel Collosus/other big robot)
Bob for me was always in the deck. I just cut one Dark Confidant cause 16 blue cards was too low after adding Lingering Souls. 17 is kinda low too but playable.
There is a version with Confidant and Deathrite that has the Force of Wills in the board. Might try that but don't like giving up game 1 to combo.
@Lord_Mcdonalds
Looks good. Might have to try Strix at some point. It was quite good in Vintage with Welders and Moxes. I would run the 1st Sensei's Divining Top before I run the first Ponder. Its so good long game to improve card quality.
I still like Supreme Verdict against Merfolk and blue mirrors.
Rest in Peace is good against Dredge (nerfs entire deck till removed), Reanimator (puts them on show and tell plan), Punishing Jund (punishing fire/tarmogoyf), BUG (Shaman +Tarmogoyf), RUG (Goyf+Goose)
@Mackan
I found people boarding in Surgical Extraction to win the Lingering Souls war. Zealous Persecution is also pretty good here. Dunno about Thopter it gets better when you have Enlightened Tutor to find the other part.
@Tigro215
I would replace the Relic of Progenitus and 2 Surgical Extractions with 3 Rest in Peace. You tend to board out Lingering Souls and Snapcasters in match ups where you need Rest in Peace anyway like Reanimator, Dredge, RUG.
Moat is counterproductive because you want to swing with Batterskull Germ or Stoneforge Mystics equiped with Jitte. Linger Souls tokens and Vendilion Clique do fly over Moat but your locking out some of your own creatures. Humility would be a better choice since it nerfs certain too good creatures like Griselbrand and Emrakul to be 1/1s.
Re: the last few pages about possibly going down to 2 maindeck Lingering Souls and squeezing a 1-of Top somewhere in the maindeck... behold: http://tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=10736&iddeck=78381
That's right, Vidi cut a Souls for the Top. I'd be interested in hearing his thoughts behind the move and if it panned out for him (placed 1st, but still).
@Arsenal
I been running a 1 of main deck Top. Top is amazing it improves your card quality and is great with fetch lands. Its really good in my build because I run Dark Confidant. Only 2 Lingering Souls has been fine. I don't run Intuition so no need for 3 of them. I do run Elspeth Knight Errant as another way to make tokens though. I find in Stoneblade mirrors some people board in Surgical Extractions and Extract your Lingering Souls after you cast your first one so having only 2 makes that hurt less.
Ok maybe BoB but i wouldnt play it because the high mana base.
But i dont understand the strix.
1. Why i should cut some important slots. And the slots are very hard to place the right card in.
2. I dont like to tapped out for a 1/1 guy, that makes not much.. i use better discard, jace or counters or vindicate.
3. he cost 2 cmc and that meens 3-4 cmc 2 cards more.
4. Die to each removal.
Play baleful strix in esperstoneblade is wrong.
1. Which slots do you speak of, for me, I cut V-Clique (underwhelmin in quite a few matchups) from the main, Supreme Verdict altogether (meta reasons) and ponder (arguable, but in this instance, I have 4 Brainstorm + 3 Baleful Strix, meaning that I have effectively 7 cantrips as opposed to 5), bare in mind, no ones is saying that Baleful Strix is an auto include (unless I am missing something), in creature heavy metas, he's something they have to play around, no one likes swinging into him.
2. a 1/1 guy that draws a card and trades with every creature in the format.
3. I have no idea what you mean
4. Tarmogoyf does to most removal in the format, what's your point?
1. I would never cut the Clique, She makes a lot more. The Ponder to.
2. I mean why i should tap out for a 1/1 guy, that makes not much. Insteat Keep the mana for StP or Snapcaster, Counter etc.
3. I mean with this, when you Play strix, she cost 2 mana and not 1 or had Flash like Clique and Snapcaster. She is to slow. Same with Verdict, ok 4 cmc but it destroys every creature;) and Strix maybe one.
4. Yes that's true but Tarmogoyf is a lot better and a clock;)
1. clique doesn't do much more, i love clique but baleful strix does just as much. Strix shines where clique sucks: against on-combo creature decks.
2+3. because that 1/1 guy cantrips and functions as removal which produces card advantage and is very relevant. 2 cmc is not slow, by that standard, every card except for 1 cmc cards would be slow. And why not keep mana open for snap? you can't play snapcaster effectively on turn 2, later on you decide which play is best.
4. What he was trying to explain to you is that "dies to removal" is not an argument. Accepting that as an argument would make all creatures mediocre cards.
I don't like MTG, i just like legacy control decks.Esper stoneblade
I got top 8 at a local fairly competitive tournament at Mythic Games in Elmira, NY. It was my first time playing the deck at outside of 5$ FNM events and really liked it.
I ran Vidi's list with this sideboard:
1 Blue Elemental Blast
2 Cabal Therapy
2 Flusterstorm
2 Rest in Peace
1 Sword of Feast and Famine
1 Disenchant
1 Ethersworn Canonist
3 Geist of Saint Traft
1 Perish
1 Force of Will
Cook at and a lot of other TES players usually show up for this event. I wouldn't always be running Ethersworn Cannonist, but Ive had to play against TES in 3 of the 6 rounds at this store before. And while I didnt play against storm, it as great against Enchantress.
Im not sure I like RiP over surgical. My logic was that the matchup where I want GY hate (dredge, reanimtor, etc) I dont need souls. And RiP would also help more than surgical against goyf, pfire, the mirror, or kotr decks.
2-1 - Scapeshift Nic Fit
Im usually on the other end of this matchup and I know its actually pretty 50/50, Scapeshift is probably even a tad favored. I had solid hands against him though. You can't let this matchup go for long or they will just topdeck a burning wish or scapeshift and instawin if they have 7-8 lands out. G3, I dropped T3 Giest, took some huntmaster beats and then T4 Perished away 2 Huntmasters, therapied a 3rd and then just rode geist to victory after FoWing a deed.
2-0 - Reanimator
Neither game was even close, I had so much disruption both games, and getting a jace online sealed up both games.
0-2 - Esper mirror
I sided out souls, in geist, and I brought in RiP thinking he'd leave in souls (he did). I'm not sure if this is right but It didn't matter because both games I was stuck on 3 lands till like turn 10, where he hit every land drop and won the jace race.
1-1 - Fish
I had him dead on board G3 with a jace, 4 souls and jitte and he just had 1 lord. If I had one more turn I could have killed him. Oh well.
2-0 - Enchantress with RiP/helm
I didn't want to see this matchup, I know its usually pretty bad. But I had a crap ton of disruption both games and it worked well. I played very conservatively. Saving cantrips I "needed" to find land drops in case I had FoW an enchantress and it paid off. G2 he kept a very greedy hand and therapy hitting triple enchantress presence punished him for it. I dropped a Cannonist followed by jace and geist and that was game.
3-1-1
There was a LOT of draws, only 28 players and I had good breakers so 3-1-1 actually good enough for 4th going into the top 8. I was paired against reanimator again and new Id win that again. The top 8 was Jund, RUG, Junk, another Esper, Fish, Goblins, reanimator and me but everyone else wanted to split and I was hungry so I didn't mind taking 160$.
Anyone have any tips on winning the Esper mirror? Also, yesterday was an anomaly, a lot of the combo players weren't there or were playing non-combo decks but in an area were at least 30% of the players are very skilled combo players is there any changes to my MD or SB anyone could recommend? I was thinking doing 4 MD FoW but I'm not sure if its actually necessary since the deck is probably solid enough against combo already.
Nice job evan! I think the combo players weren't there because of the Syracuse PTQ.
@Pdingo
I wouldn't say playing Baleful Strix is wrong period. Esper Stoneblade is highly customizable to the metagame. Baleful Strix makes sense if your playing many creature decks. If you are playing a creature deck Baleful Strix draws you a card and either trades with a creature or draws removal spell that didn't hit your Stoneforge Mystic. Pretty good if your meta game is mostly creature decks. If your not playing against many creature decks then Baleful Strix is not that card you want.
@Lord_Mcdonalds
I agree if your meta is creatues then Baleful Strix is worth including.
@TheArchitect
Congratulations.
Ethersworn Canonist seems good. Might have to try that at some point.
I like Rest in Peace over Surgical because its just so much better against the grave yard decks. I just board out my Lingering Souls against most grave yard decks anyway. Also board out a Snapcaster if I board in Rest in Peace.
awesome job man! if the field is anything close to jupiter games, top 8 is pretty good. i think souls is far too valuable in the esper mirror. rip stops half of souls and snapcaster, but i don't think that's a huge deal. i would have left souls in and cut 2-3 plow, and 1 verdict instead. i never really know about force, but it's probably right to bring out. you just want to save your discard til after a stoneforge or right before a jace will come out (if it's thoughseize, that is)
Thanks! I did also cut 2 StpS, verdict and 1 snap for 2 therapy and 2 RiP. I think your right though, Souls is too good there. I dont think Ill use RiP again though, so I wont have this issue. Also, for some reason like no one plays esper around here so the mirror is going to be rare. Mythic is like the same quality of players as jupiter, just usually less players. So its easier to top 8 for that reason. Like only 28 players showed up this month (usually its 30-50), compared to Jupiters regular 50-80.
that's really cool. my crew and I (siiig and kich on here) want to head up to mythic for the next one. I think siiig and I are going to catch the next jupiter this weekend, so if you're there and wanna run some mirror matches, ill be more than willing to help :)
This is my current list. I play in a meta that is pretty broad. One week I can face all combo decks, the next I end up facing 3 goyf decks in a row. I'm heavier on the control cards just because of the amount of combo in my meta. I abandoned Snapcaster due to the amount of Deathrite Shaman and rest in peace in my meta. In turn I adopted Rest in Peace as my graveyard hate. My success varies week to week depending on my match ups and how my deck is tuned. I can go 4-0 or I can 2-2.
Creatures 7
3 Geist of Saint Traft
4 Stoneforge Mystic
Planeswalker 5
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
2 Liliana of the Veil
Artifact 3
1 Batterskull
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Feast and Famine
Spells 23
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
3 Spell Pierce
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Thoughtseize
4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Lingering Souls
Lands 22
1 Academy Ruins
1 Creeping Tar Pit
4 Flooded Strand
2 Island
1 Karakas
2 Marsh Flats
1 Plains
3 Polluted Delta
1 Scrubland
1 Swamp
3 Tundra
2 Underground Sea
SIDEBOARD
2 Disenchant
1 Engineered Explosives
3 Flusterstorm
2 Perish
3 Rest in Peace
1 Supreme Verdict
1 Vindicate
2 Path to Exile
Cutting Snapcaster Mages seems like a truly bad attempt to achieve.... anything. It's probably just bad.
So you cut Snappy because there are so many Deathrite-Shaman.decs and RIP/Helm-Miracles?
1) Deathrite-Shaman.decs: Ok, your reasoning is that your Snapcasters get worse because the Shaman will most likely eat the Swords (other targets) in advance/in response? While this might be true I don't think that it is a viable attempt to solve this problem. Snapcaster Mage is our Bloodbraidelf. Chump your BB11, swords your Goyf anyone? Pierce your Liliana, take up Jitte and hit for 2? While he might be situationally bad from time to time you really want this guy, even in this MU where he is supposed to be inefficient.
2) RIP/Helm-Miracle: Snapcaster is rather dead once RIP lands. This is true. But you still have a guy that can hit for 2 and can be equipped. And most Miraclelists board out / minimize the RIPs postboard - only a few sideboards prefer to overload on the combo, though they are the minority. I'd still want to have Snapcaster vs Miracle, even against the RIP builds. T1 Thoughtseize, T2 Mystic, T3 Snappy Thoughtseize? Bonkers?
Snapcaster Mage is one of the few reasons I sometimes feel that I have picked the wrong UWx-Controldeck - Miracle. Because I cannot afford to play Snapcaster Mages, but I'd love to. This card is just too good to not play it! Especially in a UWB Controldeck with alot of powerful targets, including nice 1ofs like Vindicate/Verdict which you can flashback too. Due to me Esperblade could aswell be called Snapmystic-Control, because Snapcaster is such an essential part of this deck - if there was enough space I'd play the full set - though my current list only features 3.
I'd really beg you to think about this decision again!
Greetings
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