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Thread: Changes to the planeswalker uniqueness rule

  1. #141

    Re: Changes to the planeswalker uniqueness rule

    Quote Originally Posted by Arsenal View Post
    lolwut? That card doesn't see play in Legacy.
    I know, I was assuming we were talking about EDH in relation to Sigarda. Meh.

  2. #142
    bruizar
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    Re: Changes to the planeswalker uniqueness rule

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Seth View Post
    The problem is, you kind of can. If you have a Sigarda and your opponent has a Sigarda, you can block their Sigarda with your own. Ditto with Thrun. Heck, even if the Geist can't block the angel, it can still block the other Geist, and your opponent will have a tricky time getting rid of it (can't burn it!) to stop you from doing that.

    Geist of Saint Traft Shizo, Death's Storehouse

  3. #143
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    Re: Changes to the planeswalker uniqueness rule

    Quote Originally Posted by Barook View Post
    Any other changes you have "in store" for us?
    Just so you know, anybody can send suggestions to WotC.

    The last suggestions I made to WotC were to stop giving blue token generators, and that one article I wrote about giving red the "lose all abilities" effect. I don't know if they will print one, as "lose all abilities" becomes a bit complex when auras get into the mix, as some auras add abilities while others don't. The cleanest implementation would be to make "flicker" the creature and make it enter the battlefield without abilities.
    Please stop talking about whether Force of Will is broken or not. It obviously is, and rather than "the glue that holds vintage together" it would be better to call it "the rug under which you hide the filth until there's so much that you can no longer conceal it".

  4. #144

    Re: Changes to the planeswalker uniqueness rule

    Quote Originally Posted by DrJones View Post
    Just so you know, anybody can send suggestions to WotC.

    The last suggestions I made to WotC were to stop giving blue token generators, and that one article I wrote about giving red the "lose all abilities" effect. I don't know if they will print one, as "lose all abilities" becomes a bit complex when auras get into the mix, as some auras add abilities while others don't. The cleanest implementation would be to make "flicker" the creature and make it enter the battlefield without abilities.
    Please don't ever send them any more suggestions. This legends rule is terrible and you should feel bad for suggesting it.

  5. #145

    Re: Changes to the planeswalker uniqueness rule

    Quote Originally Posted by Goaswerfraiejen View Post
    I also don't like the SB changes. I'm ok with the "up to 15" change, which doesn't seem problematic (although I don't see why you'd ever start with fewer than 15 cards in the SB), but I'm really unhappy about the fact that SBing is no longer done on a one-to-one basis. That's a pretty fundamental change, and I just don't see any reason for it.
    As an L2 judge, I really like the new sideboarding rules. It really sucks to give out feel bad game losses because a player accidentally ended up with 14 cards remaining in their sideboard, instead of 15.

    This does definitely make Vindicate a lot better and Maelstrom Pulse a bit worse. Playing Shardless BUG, it is a bit of a bummer that I won't be able to use Pulse as an out if I get into a Jace war with another player. Will have to rely on swarming with creatures.

  6. #146
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    Re: Changes to the planeswalker uniqueness rule

    Quote Originally Posted by marumari View Post
    Will have to rely on swarming with creatures.

    Isn't that WotC's ultimate goal anyway?

  7. #147

    Re: Changes to the planeswalker uniqueness rule

    Quote Originally Posted by Damoxx View Post
    Isn't that WotC's ultimate goal anyway?
    Pretty much. Make spells suck, make rules changes so parts of the game require no interaction between players so you can just toss down creatures without even looking at the board. Seems to be on track for them.

  8. #148

    Re: Changes to the planeswalker uniqueness rule

    Quote Originally Posted by marumari View Post
    As an L2 judge, I really like the new sideboarding rules. It really sucks to give out feel bad game losses because a player accidentally ended up with 14 cards remaining in their sideboard, instead of 15.
    My thoughts exactly. I don't think anyone's going to purposefully stray from the standard 60/15, but accidents do happen, and I see no reason 61/14 should result in a gameloss.

  9. #149
    bruizar
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    Re: Changes to the planeswalker uniqueness rule

    It can be a nice way to prevent the 'play until I deck you'-troll-strategy.

  10. #150

    Re: Changes to the planeswalker uniqueness rule

    As far as I'm concerned, these changes represent another in a long line of dropped balls from WotC since, oh, Avacyn Restored. I can only assume they were enacted to support Theros, but still...unnecessary, unflavorful, just all-around bad.

    Well, actually, the sideboard change is cute. And the land change closes some headache-inducing rules issues. But the legendary and planeswalker changes are terrible.

  11. #151
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    Re: Changes to the planeswalker uniqueness rule

    Quote Originally Posted by Damoxx View Post
    Isn't that WotC's ultimate goal anyway?
    It seems to me that Wizard's ultimate goal is to inflate the secondary market so much that buying packs for chase cards is actually more cost efficient.

  12. #152

    Re: Changes to the planeswalker uniqueness rule

    Quote Originally Posted by bruizar View Post
    Dreadbore and Vindicate are going to become more important. Dreadbore can take out creatures, lili and jace (abrupt decay cant take out jace). Vindicate can help dominate the planeswalker battles in esper / deathblade mirrors.
    cough Karakas cough. Not every deck packs 4 Wastelands (think Miracle).

  13. #153

    Re: Changes to the planeswalker uniqueness rule

    Quote Originally Posted by Hof View Post
    Yes, they did.

    I like these changes for the most part. I think they make a lot of sense.
    Ok, so they heavily implied it.

    Either way, it'll be amusing to watch Vintage tournaments now. Heavy dredge field? Guess my maindeck is 64 cards with 4 leylines that I side out down to 60 for every non-dredge game 2 or 3.

    EDIT: I'm gonna disagree with people who are glossing over the land change. Before, if you played an effect that gave you an extra land drop, all it did was "key" that extra land drop to that version of the effect. So this line of play:

    t1: Forest.
    t2: Forest, Gaea's Touch, Forest.
    t3: Forest, Forest, Sacrifice Gaea's Touch, Rofellos Gift, Gaea's Touch, Forest.

    made sense, because each new version of Gaea's Touch gave you an extra land drop. That land drop lasted for as long as that version was relevant. Now, that third turn misses out on a Forest drop, and you have to remember how many land drops you used and had overall, instead of just adding one each time you played a Gaea's Touch. It just makes weird decks bad and everything else not much simpler.

  14. #154

    Re: Changes to the planeswalker uniqueness rule

    Quote Originally Posted by Tao View Post
    If anything the game gets more interactive with this. Or playing on Auto-Pilot? And why wouldn't you have to look on your opponent's board anymore?
    Planeswalker mirror matches had a lot more mindgames going on, as there were choices you had to make without access to perfect information. Do I keep my opponent's Lili at 1 loyalty and make it harder to get value out of her? Do I kill my opponents walker with a spell and hope to drop my own now/later? Much more interesting interactions, as now the best play is to always slam down the walker and ride the value train as best you can, while your opponent does the same.

    EDH becomes really stupid as well, as now everyone can play their Karn, Lili 1.0, or Jacey Boy and clog up the game/board with tons of activations and looming threats. Not to mention LOLSigarda.

    Quote Originally Posted by Arianrhod View Post
    Serra's Sanctum -- I would not be surprised to see these end up banned within 6 months. On the other hand, the format may adjust. The large upwelling of Esperblade that is coming will make Elves less attractive of an option, but may improve Enchantress even further.

    [...]

    The legend change all but ensures that once Enchantress starts going off, it is going to win.
    Serra's Sanctum gets a big boost from this change, but two things make it nowhere near the power level of Cradle.

    -Enchantress may be moving away from the Words of War kill towards a RiP/Helm combo kill, which is a lot less mana-hungry. Cradle decks always need mana.

    -Even if you stick with the Words of War kill, many of the spells you want to cast need green mana, and Sanctum provides you with white mana. It'll help pay for the Words activations, but production of green mana is usually the rate-determining step if Enchantress is "going off". Plus, Enchantress doesn't need to go off like Elves because it can sit behind Confinement. Cradle gives Elves exactly the color of mana they need.

  15. #155
    Hamburglar Hlelpler
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    Re: Changes to the planeswalker uniqueness rule

    On the plus side, Legendary Duel Lands don't end up being fetchable Wastelands, if they ever decide to go that route.

    Granted you can only have the one in play at once on your side, but it beats Bolting yourself I guess. Seeing as how my wallet is an emblem that says "You can't control or own any dual lands in any game of MAGIC. Bad Motherfucker" I will gladly take whatever trickles down the pipe.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dissection View Post
    Creature type - 'Fuck you mooooooom'
    Quote Originally Posted by Secretly.A.Bee View Post
    EDIT: Tsumi, you are silly.

  16. #156
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    Re: Changes to the planeswalker uniqueness rule

    Full damage control on Maro's blog

    Looks like people are pissed.

  17. #157

    Re: Changes to the planeswalker uniqueness rule

    Quote Originally Posted by Barook View Post
    Full damage control on Maro's blog

    Looks like people are pissed.
    It's really frustrating reading that blog, when every time someone points out something negative, his response is always "Actually, it's the exact opposite of that. kthxbai." The dude is the face of magic design, he could at least answer complaints and criticisms more honestly.

  18. #158

    Re: Changes to the planeswalker uniqueness rule

    My initial reaction was to hate this change. After mulling it over, I still dislike the flavor implications. I think flavor is more important to the health of the game than most give it credit for. Legendary is one of the mechanics that is flavorful enough to make what is a drawback almost seem like a good thing. I've always loved throwing 1-of legendary cards in a deck just because they get to do stuff that non-legendary cards don't and it's fun to draw your 1 legend. While doing so won't be any worse now, the mental justification is much weaker. I'm going to have to pick up second and third copies of a lot of cards :P

    As far as game play, I initially freaked out thinking Emrakul and Griselbrand got much harder to answer. Then I realized that cloning one of these guys and getting to swing first can be a good thing. I also love what this does to Flagstones, a card I play way more than I should. If it makes Mox Opal see some play, that's cool too. So overall, I'm ok with it. It also might get them to change the "no more legendary lands" policy, which made KotR sad.

  19. #159
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    Re: Changes to the planeswalker uniqueness rule

    Quote Originally Posted by LennonMarx View Post
    his response is always "Actually, it's the exact opposite of that. kthxbai."
    That's probably also the way he rules the R&D team, hence most of them being a bunch of Yes-sayers.

  20. #160
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    Re: Changes to the planeswalker uniqueness rule

    Flavor seems really bad and I was opposed to the rule change out of principle (I hate change). However, after thinking about it, from a gameplay perspective, I think the new legendary and planeswalker uniqueness rules are better than the old one (and definitely better than the pre-Lin Sivvi legendary rule).

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