[Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm

[Lemnear]

Yeah, double Mox is one that gets me.
I managed to draw solid hands the other night so it wasn't hard to be patient, as opposed to a week earlier where I drew horribly and mulled in most of the games.


By the way, how do you sideboard for Esper Stoneblade? Also, do we side in anything vs Burn or just rely on speed?

No board vs burn. Against Stoneblade -1 Infernal, +1 Therapy

[jandax]

I'd go more towards Lemnear's strategery. Burn is winnable when you're faster, so OP maindeck is the way to go. Esper Stoneblade is favorable if you can go off earlier, and they'll win the late game. Considering that is how the match plays out, shaving more dead card(s) for less dead card(s) is the way to go.

[Megadeus]

Against stoneblade I think I was just cutting empty for cabal therapy. Burn I think I was not even boarding. Therapy may be solid though to bring in considering burn is a deck of 4-ofs

[phazonmutant]

Why in the world wouldn't you bring in Chain? It can be helpful to natural storm out, it's more on-color, and Pyrostatic Pillar is pretty damn hard to win through. It's not like Silence is doing a whole lot.

[Megadeus]

Why in the world wouldn't you bring in Chain? It can be helpful to natural storm out, it's more on-color, and Pyrostatic Pillar is pretty damn hard to win through. It's not like Silence is doing a whole lot.

Thats fair. I was always more worried because the only burn player in our local meta played 4x MB Traps. And while I think that cards is shit, is really sucks to lose to a shit card. Of course this boarding plan caused me to lose to a burn player because I didnt expect Pillar at the Open...

[Dark Ritual]

I'll snap take out silences against burn. It literally reads counter target rift bolt. Oh they cast pyro pillar? This silence is putting in serious work. I'd bring in any discard over silence or bounce that costs 1 (decay is awkward with ad nauseam in terms of making your flips worse.)

But the goal against burn is to goldfish them as quickly as possible/be faster. If we can't do that then we deserve to lose.

[Jay_Gatz]

I just had the pleasure of casting ad nauseam using my opponent's dream halls.

[sconnell]

I'll snap take out silences against burn. It literally reads counter target rift bolt.

Silence isn't great against burn, but there's more to it than this. If they have a hand of non-instants and fireblasts, it can be a time walk to get you another turn so you can play another land and draw another card. This can often be a big deal.

Might be a bit late to the party, but I just wanted to add something else to the discussion about the Empty play versus Merfolk which ended up losing to Echoing Truth. The alternative line here is to build up and wait to combo off since you're not under pressure. We know the opponent has Echoing Truth which means that, by the time you're ready to go off, they might be able to bounce your Xantid and have some amount of counterspells up. This means you need to be very careful about how long you actually wait.

[Darkness]

Personally, I would bring in the Chain of Vapors for Burn Game two and if I saw it game two I may consider Abrupt Decay. Most of the time Burn is not faster than you. They are rarely interrupting your combo, minus your life as a resource which allows you to mold to Past in Flames or IGG set up pretty easily. I was really concerned with the speed of burn and if I could race when I had first made TES on Mtgo. After heavy testing I think my win percentage was around 80% against burn, the match is extremely easy. Basically for them to win, everything has to go wrong for you and right for them.

[Lemnear]

Why in the world wouldn't you bring in Chain? It can be helpful to natural storm out, it's more on-color, and Pyrostatic Pillar is pretty damn hard to win through. It's not like Silence is doing a whole lot.

This is just experience and mine tells me that timewalking against Lava Spike, Rift Bolt, Pyrostatic Pillar, drawn Goblin Guide, drawn Lavamancer, Chain Lightning, Flame Rift, etc. IS a thing because most of their spells ARE Sorceries, Turn 1/2 EtW beats burn most of the time and outside of turn 1/2 kills I never casted Ad Nauseam in that matchup

[phazonmutant]

This is just experience and mine tells me that timewalking against Lava Spike, Rift Bolt, Pyrostatic Pillar, drawn Goblin Guide, drawn Lavamancer, Chain Lightning, Flame Rift, etc. IS a thing because most of their spells ARE Sorceries, Turn 1/2 EtW beats burn most of the time and outside of turn 1/2 kills I never casted Ad Nauseam in that matchup

You're right, Silence definitely is not awful. We both love Silence as timewalk. However, one of the few ways burn can realistically win against TES is Pillar (others being TES having a slow draw and TES going all-in against Mindbreak Trap). I'd prefer to have proactive discard that is good against both Pillar and Mindbreak Trap and doesn't necessarily have to be cast on the combo turn, or failing that, reactive answers to their trump permanents.

I think it comes down to hedging. I'm hedging against just straight losing to Pillar, you're hedging that you'll be able to save 3-6 life with Silence. I tend to prefer avoiding auto-losses, but that's not always the correct line...

[Lemnear]

This is not Discard vs. Silence because I can get behind either idea. I would still leave a Discard spell in the Wishboard if you opt to board Therapy

My grief targets lonely the boarding of Chains of Vapor to fight Pillar which imo diludes the mainboard (read something about boarding out EtW at some point ... duh!). I would use Silence to prevent Pillar or ... simply ... EtW, AN or IGG-Loop before Pillar resolves. The possibility of saving several lifepoints via timewalking is just a pliability's cream topping

[jin]

Yeah, double Mox is one that gets me.
I managed to draw solid hands the other night so it wasn't hard to be patient, as opposed to a week earlier where I drew horribly and mulled in most of the games.


By the way, how do you sideboard for Esper Stoneblade? Also, do we side in anything vs Burn or just rely on speed?

Esperblade has a weak match up against you unless they bring in Canonist. You only need to SB like you would against Tempo decks, Infernal Tutor for Cabal Therapy.

Against Burns, I suggest you bring in Tendrils of Agony for Empty the Warren. When you need to go for Ill-gotten Gains, you'll appreciate the extra speed main deck Tendrils provides. Silence probably comes out against burns. Bring in Bounce and Decay for Pyrostatic Pillar/Fast beats.

[Lemnear]

Against Burns, I suggest you bring in Tendrils of Agony for Empty the Warren. When you need to go for Ill-gotten Gains, you'll appreciate the extra speed main deck Tendrils provides. Silence probably comes out against burns. Bring in Bounce and Decay for Pyrostatic Pillar/Fast beats.

I don't know why we discuss "extra speed" Tendrils boarding against a goldfish which Auto-scoops to EtW > 4 stormcount while cutting you off from game winning Wishes or board several cards for a 2/3-off in burn.decs Sideboard which you should race non the less. Lets just not forget the fail here if they don't have pillar but MBT's in their SB. To argue for chain/decay while pointing at Goblin Guide/Hellspark is hilarious

[jin]

I don't know why we discuss "extra speed" Tendrils boarding against a goldfish which Auto-scoops to EtW > 4 stormcount while cutting you off from game winning Wishes or board several cards for a 2/3-off in burn.decs Sideboard which you should race non the less. Lets just not forget the fail here if they don't have pillar but MBT's in their SB. To argue for chain/decay while pointing at Goblin Guide/Hellspark is hilarious

Burn doesn't auto scoop to Etw > 4 storm count. You'd have to do this turn 1 for it to be anywhere near effective. Chances of that isn't likely either. The speed is necessary to kill with IGG which is your main win condition in this match up, otherwise IGG serves no purpose in your SB.

The chance of the opponent playing MBT is equal to them playing Pyrostatic Pillar in the burn match up. Not to mention you already play Duress which solves the Mindbreak Trap issue, but you don't play main deck bounce to get rid of the Pyrostatic Pillar/Chalice of the Void @0, plus a plethora of other random things like Leyline of Sanctity and creature beats. A fast clock is just as good of a combo deterrent as a hate spell. Burn uses this one the most, I'd say.

MBT doesn't go well with the Burn game plan. If they are boarding that in, they are expecting to face a lot of Storm combo. This seems unlikely.

[Lemnear]

10 goblins are enough even turn 2. Burn needs Fireblast (which fell out of favor afaik) and a Perfect Volley of spells to kill turn 3.

It's even less likely to face a burn.dec with chalice and/or leyline in the board.

IGG still requires massive mana and Infernal + Wish (Infernal for wish) so I think we are off talking about Speed and IGG in a relation as long as you don't board in IGG as well.

Turn 1/2 AN/EtW or going for a lethal spellchain turn 2/3 are your best and easiest routes. In cornercases you can still play a non-lethal Tendrils to gain several additional turns and finish your opponent with PIF, IGG or grapeshot

[jin]

10 goblins are enough even turn 2. Burn needs Fireblast (which fell out of favor afaik) and a Perfect Volley of spells to kill turn 3.

It's even less likely to face a burn.dec with chalice and/or leyline in the board.

IGG still requires massive mana and Infernal + Wish (Infernal for wish) so I think we are off talking about Speed and IGG in a relation as long as you don't board in IGG as well.

Turn 1/2 AN/EtW or going for a lethal spellchain turn 2/3 are your best and easiest routes. In cornercases you can still play a non-lethal Tendrils to gain several additional turns and finish your opponent with PIF, IGG or grapeshot

They play Goblin Guide, Grim Lavamancer, and Keldon Maurauder. Any combination of those will stop 10 goblins turn 2.

MBT and Chalice have the equal likeliness as they are both very narrow cards in this deck. Leyline is actually relevant in a lot more match ups.

LED, LED, Burning Wish, Infernal Tutor and any filler card will win you the game if you play Tendrils main. You have plenty of time to shape this hand if you are not worried about your life total, which IGG helps with.

You are talking about casting Ad Nauseam turn 1/2? It sounds like you don't have much experience with this match up if you are going to bank everything on a 1/60 and using your life as a resource against Burns.

[Lemnear]

What's the problem with using life as a resource against Burn turn 1/2? We're not talking about AN beyond turn 2 and below 10 life.

Please let me know how Chain of Vapor significantly improves your game against Goblin Guide? You trade a card for 2 less damage. I'm not impressed.

A IGG loop with 2 LED's provides 6 mana. You can still Infernal for a 2nd Wish into Tendrils from the SB. What's your point?

Edit: Infernal -> Wish -> ToA Post-IGG even creates more stormcount which would not possible with MB Tendrils

[Darkness]

What's the problem with using life as a resource against Burn turn 1/2? We're not talking about AN beyond turn 2 and below 10 life.

Please let me know how Chain of Vapor significantly improves your game against Goblin Guide? You trade a card for 2 less damage. I'm not impressed.

A IGG loop with 2 LED's provides 6 mana. You can still Infernal for a 2nd Wish into Tendrils from the SB. What's your point?

Edit: Infernal -> Wish -> ToA Post-IGG even creates more stormcount which would not possible with MB Tendrils

I have to Agree with Lemnear on the topic of IGG. In my testing against burn, casting Burning Wish into IGG or Past in Flames is probably your best option. You generally have plenty of time against them because their lack of interaction. If you open up with a hand of rituals, sculpt for Past in Flames. If you have a hand with LEDs, sculpt your hand for an IGG combo. The matchup is a lot easier than one may think.

My opinion blinding going into game 2 of their sideboard is to bring in 2 CoV for 2 Silence. Having access to CoV and Silence allows you to fight both Mindbreak Trap and Pillar. If there is a game three, it's probably due to losing to their hate that you couldn't stop, which allows you to properly sideboard with more knowledge.

[Megadeus]

If you cast AN turn 1 our two you just won the game. .. how is that wrong?