All B/R update speculation.

[Fatal]

13/16 decks running BS, and 14/16 decks was blue-based ;] - that's the sign of healthy meta. Look back 1,5 year we had Aggro, Tempo, Control, Middle-range, Combo (GY based, S&T based, Painter based, Storm etc).

Now in top16:

6 Combo in it (5 S&T based, 1 GY based reanimator)
5 Control (3 Deathrite Stoneblade, 2 BUG Shardless)
3 Middle-range (Maverick, Tezzerator, D&T)
2 Tempo - RUG, UWR

Not bad, quite balanced with Combo approaching sign, but when we look closer there are Decks (not archetypes) which build about 70% of meta, the diversification of metagame is much lesser then it was 1,5 year ago. Fast combo decks - mostly S&T - kills all Tier2-3 decks bacause they are too slow / don't have answers (read permission) vs turn 1 S&T.

So if you build a going to build a deck on actual meta you need:
-Win with S&T
-Win with Deathrite Shaman decks and BUG decks.

To goal first:
- Run permission -> Force of Will - mean 18 blue cards in deck and more Envelop/Flusterstorm OR run Red to have SB options like REB/Pyro
- Run discard -> thoughsieze -> mean running black - or have enough tempo to end game before he sculpt hand (like RUG try and die - looking on results) - this way doesn't work after SB (Leyline of Sanctity)
- Tax spells -> Thalia -> works only on turn..

To goal second:
- have answer vs bob/sfm/equips - a lot of removal or recurring removal like punishing fire - like Jund
- have answer vs jace/liliana sometimes - a lot of creatures, or discard/land destruction/stax effect - like Maverick or D&T

Like you see there is no deck that can achieve both goals, but what is worst - other decks can deal with even 1 goal to defeat one of them - thx to idiotic printing black noble hierarch/lavamancer/ooze hybrid.

That's why we have so flat metagame.

S&T, BUG Shardless, Deathrite Stoneblade - 25 % other decks.

Banning S&T would open again way to interact with permission/discard decks on long game for example Nic Fit / Aggro Loam / Goblins - which is totally owned by present S&T's.

[ryO!]

I [The Magic Players Community] don't often whine like there's no tomorrow but when i do i make damn f*cking sure that i am from the legacy circle of "influence".

Dark Depths 1
The Rock 2
Boros 3
Bubble Hulk 4
Patriot 5
Sneak Attack 6
Bant Control 7
Stiflenought 8

134 people in spain 19/05/2013

let's ban Dark Depth (even pre change of rules it s overpowered)

see what i did ?

[Mister M.]

see what i did ?

You trolled?

[ryO!]

You trolled?

You don't say ? (Obviousy obvious facts are obvious)

just pointing the fact that the thread is pointless and counterproductive.

[Dzra]

Now in top16:

6 Combo in it (5 S&T based, 1 GY based reanimator)
5 Control (3 Deathrite Stoneblade, 2 BUG Shardless)
3 Middle-range (Maverick, Tezzerator, D&T)
2 Tempo - RUG, UWR

Banning S&T would open again way to interact with permission/discard decks on long game for example Nic Fit / Aggro Loam / Goblins - which is totally owned by present S&T's.

You can talk about the meta being stale all you like, but you just showed me a top 16 sporting 9 very different decks. You can put constricting labels on them, and even complain about Brainstorm being so prevalent if you want, but it doesn't change the fact that the meta is diverse and the format is fun. So what if Aggro Loam or Goblins is on a downturn? Cephalid Breakfast is also underplayed, but I don't see anyone complaining. Look at the last few SCG top 16s and you'll see an additional 7-8 decks, including another 2 or 3 that aren't running Brainstorm.

[yankeedave]

When is the next B&R announcement due? Is it tomorrow?

[FieryBalrog]

You can talk about the meta being stale all you like, but you just showed me a top 16 sporting 9 very different decks. You can put constricting labels on them, and even complain about Brainstorm being so prevalent if you want, but it doesn't change the fact that the meta is diverse and the format is fun. So what if Aggro Loam or Goblins is on a downturn? Cephalid Breakfast is also underplayed, but I don't see anyone complaining. Look at the last few SCG top 16s and you'll see an additional 7-8 decks, including another 2 or 3 that aren't running Brainstorm.

A format where Show & Tell is a cornerstone archetype is just

[Megadeus]

Not gonna lie, I was pretty salty after losing to griselbrand last night... I just hate SnT strategies so much for the fact of how ridiculously easy they are to pilot... And how derpy griselbrand is. Like losing to griselderp just leaves an awful taste in my mouth. "Congratulations on playing a perfect game! It's too bad your opponent derped his way to 14 free cards and you ran out of gas!"

/rant

[Dzra]

Not gonna lie, I was pretty salty after losing to griselbrand last night... I just hate SnT strategies so much for the fact of how ridiculously easy they are to pilot... And how derpy griselbrand is. Like losing to griselderp just leaves an awful taste in my mouth. "Congratulations on playing a perfect game! It's too bad your opponent derped his way to 14 free cards and you ran out of gas!"

/rant

If you don't like losing to Griselbrand, play more Counterbalance and hope that there's still enough Griselbrands around to keep the Deathrites in check.

[clavio]

They should ban Show and Tell

[Julian23]

They should ban Show and Tell

Yeah, that is gonna work...

[KobeBryan]

They should ban Show and Tell

Look at the results this weekend.

Far from it.

[Reagens]

I agree on the banning of show and tell.
Not because it is overpowered or anything but because it invalidates a lot of strategies (pure aggro is rarely seen these days). The argument made that it is quite impossible to both beat show and tell and deathrite based control decks with any reliability is true but in my opinion it is even worse.
As fas as I can tell it is nearly impossible to hate all iterations of show and tell combo with one and the same deck. That's the big issue right now and with wizards printing another impossible card every 2-3 sets I hope it will soon come to a point that the inevitable is seen and that show and tell is kindly asked to gtfo.
Show and tell matchups are rarely interesting or fun at all.

[Dice_Box]

SnT will be banned. It is inevitable. As more and more cards that abuse it a printed it will reach a critical mass and find itself banned. Much like Survival. I do not know if that point is now, but one day that point will arive. I do hate that deck tho, back up SnT with a few counterspells and what not and you have a deck that takes little skill to play and really only shows off how much you can spend. But that is not the point to me, the point is, when that card hits critical mass, it will go.

[apple713]

SnT will be banned. It is inevitable. As more and more cards that abuse it a printed it will reach a critical mass and find itself banned. Much like Survival. I do not know if that point is now, but one day that point will arive. I do hate that deck tho, back up SnT with a few counterspells and what not and you have a deck that takes little skill to play and really only shows off how much you can spend. But that is not the point to me, the point is, when that card hits critical mass, it will go.

they could reprint show and tell in standard and it wouldnt cause a problem. In fact, it wouldnt cause a problem in modern either because there are no spells to dig for it. Brainstorm ponder and preordain are all gone...

if you cant kill a griselbrand you need to reevaluate your strategy. its just a creature, and doesnt even have hexproof.

[HammafistRoob]

If we haven't already hit this "critical mass" I hear people speak of, what will make us hit it? I mean permanents can't get really any better than Omniscience and Grislebrand. I'm not saying it should be legal. But maybe R&D doesn't really see the impact s&t has already had on the meta. That's because we've had quite a diverse meta as of late. They just don't notice the complete lack of straight aggro strategies.

[apple713]

If we haven't already hit this "critical mass" I hear people speak of, what will make us hit it? I mean permanents can't get really any better than Omniscience and Grislebrand. I'm not saying it should be legal. But maybe R&D doesn't really see the impact s&t has already had on the meta. That's because we've had quite a diverse meta as of late. They just don't notice the complete lack of straight aggro strategies.

critical mass will be a non planeswalker permanent that says, when this ~ enters the battlefield win the game. it'll cost like 20 colorless mana.

[Dice_Box]

critical mass will be a non planeswalker permanent that says, when this ~ enters the battlefield win the game. it'll cost like 20 colorless mana.

Sad thing is, this is not really a joke. We are getting closer and closer to this point.

[apple713]

Sad thing is, this is not really a joke. We are getting closer and closer to this point.

i was joking at the time, but i could actually see them printing it as a sorcery.

[TorpidNinja]

i was joking at the time, but i could actually see them printing it as a sorcery.

And suddenly Erratic Explosion is a thing.