I did, and ended up for a mix of Divert / Misdirection..
In late game Divert can be pitched to both FoW and Misdirection. And it's much cheaper in early game
Miracle hardly has any 80% match-up, especially NOT against a BUG-deck. Your testing has to be flawed at numerous points.
I am sorry.
Greetings
it probably is. I just can't see why everyone is concentrated on that matchup (and Esper too) instead of Show and Omni
that is much more common, much cheaper (will see more play) and way a worse matchup than this.
Redirect is an easier to cast, more powerful version of swerve. :)Originally Posted by [SLAYER]chaos
I've tried it a bit and it was only ok, and I decided I wasn't going to beat BGx decks with that type of effect. It is worth trying if you are interested in that effect though.
I have some questions about card choices.
Humility/Moat - I have seen lists that run 0, 1 or 1 of each. Can someone explain the pros and cons to me and when you would maybe want both of these.
Blood Moon/Back to Basics - Seems like the lists that don't run red use Back to Basics. Is Blood Moon strictly better? If so why?
Wrath effects - There seems to be a lot of variation on this. 4 Terminus and nothing else, 3 Terminus and a Supreme Verdict, 3 Terminus no Supreme. Is it just down to play style and how comfortable you are relying on less wraths? What about Pyroclasm in the board? I like the look of it but it does not seem that popular.
The last one is Energy Field. I get the impression you can steal games with this, but do you really need 2 when you have tutors?
I also have a question about playing the deck. It seems it must come up a lot where you have more than one SDT in play. Do you shuffle one away as soon as you get the chance with a fetch or do you keep them both in play incase of removal?
Thanks for any help you guys can give.
Oh I thought of two more.
Why do people play Misdirection over Divert? Does the free ability come up often when you don't have 1 mana to spare?
I have seen some lists running Baneslayer Angel. Theses seem to be older lists, newer ones seem to be running Batterskull, but a lot of lists don't run either.
When would you want one of these cards in you deck and would you need it less if you had a different build? Say for example I am running 4 Terminus 1 Supreme and a Pyroclasm, would I even want one of these cards.
1. Moat vs Humility
Moat has more synergy with Angels, especially true if Angels are your only win condition outside Jace. However, Humility shuts down many, many problematic creatures, from Green Sun Zenith or typical BUG. Overall, Humility works better. Not only it hoses all creature decks (BUG, Goblin, Maverick), it also can get Show and Tell into play to shut down Griselbrand/Emrakul.
2. Back to Basic vs Blood Moon
I don't see any competitive Miracle lists using Back to Basic, and I would advise Not to use Back to Basic. Perhaps you have heard of Abrupt Decay, Back to Basic only stops the untapping, Blood Moon is superior in every way.
3. Pyroclasm and wrath effect
Wrath effect is really a personal preference on the numbers. This thread has enough discussion on pyroclasm. Bottom line: Pyroclasm doesn't kill goyf, unless you have RiP in play. Pyroclasm is a dead card against most Show and Tell variants, when Terminus might save you from Sneak and Show.
4. EF
No, you don't need any. Even in the SB games, people can just pyro/reb blast EF. You might be referring to old lists. If you're uncomfortable, you can run 1. Look at this way:
No Top, No RiP: tutor Top
Has Top, No RiP: tutor RiP
Has Top, has RiP: tutor Helm for the win
when does EF ever matter?
5. second SDT
Keep it in your hand if you don't have a hand. Play the second SDT if you have a hand. There will be times when you need a 2nd SDT in play.
1. divert vs Misdirection
Simply put, with Deathrite Shaman going into Jund/BUG/Stoneblade... etc, the chance of your opponent being able to pay 2 Mana is getting higher.
2. angel vs batterskull
Batterskull only exists in the form of Miracle blade, it's at least 3 cards commitment: 2 Stoneblades + Batterskull, doesn't work without the Stoneblades. The bottom line is that it's all meta-game dependent.
Humility is mainly used against Show and Tell, particularly Sneak Attack. It also has a lot of fallout on some of the aggressive creature decks like Goblins and Elves. Some people use it against Jund. Moat is pretty useless against Show and Tell, but is pretty good against all the creature decks. Moat and Humility together stop all creatures from attacking you. The format probably isn't very friendly to that sort of lock at the moment though.
Blood Moon is better because this deck is so mana hungry. You don't care whether it's a Mountain or a Tundra that pays for Top or Entreat, but you'd like to be able to untap it next turn.
3 Terminus should cover you against most fields. The 4th Terminus or a Pyroclasm is good against GBx decks. The Supreme Verdict is good against RUG/BUG/RUW Delver and Fish.
I like Energy Field MD because you really can steal a lot of game 1s with it. Aggro decks rarely have outs in their MD (even Stoneblade doesn't have many outs) and usually creature decks can't afford to bring in too many answers without becoming clunky. More than 1 is overkill though.
Removal really isn't an issue, but sometimes 2 Tops is very nice to have. When you have a Counterbalance out, having 2 Tops means that you can always flip 1CMCs with the first Top and then be able to use the second Top to spin for any other CMCs they try to cast that turn. This is particularly useful against combo, which will often try to bait your Top to flip with cantrips in order to cast their key spells.
Another case where having multiple Tops is useful is when you have a miracle on top of your library (usually Entreat) and want to EoT draw with Top and then crack a fetchland to pay for it. Having the second Top means that even though you have to shuffle away the first, you aren't left without a Top.
Since we are such a slow deck, Divert becomes irrelevant pretty quickly. Misdirection costs a card, but will not care that it's late game and you both are flooded.
Older lists ran Baneslayer to board in because their opponent likely boarded out creature removal. Baneslayer matches up rather poorly to Liliana though, especially since we have so few creatures. Some lists run Batterskull because it can be tutored for. Both can be difficult for GBx and aggro decks to deal with. Baneslayer has more raw power and doesn't have to worry about Abrupt Decay slowing it down, but Batterskull plays better with Terminus and can be tutored for.
Thanks for the answers guys.
I am really having trouble finding a 75 I like the look of. It is difficult because I never play Legacy but have a good event to play in this weekend and this is the sort of deck that I would enjoy most. I have seen people say don't play this deck if you are new to the format, but why would I want to play something else that I would not enjoy.
I like the idea of RIP/Helm, Blood Moon and Energy Field seem like good ways to steal games but I am having trouble fitting it all in.
Moat vs Humility: depends on the matchup.
Against Goblin, Moat is the choice
Against techy blade decks Humility is way better.
Normally Humility copes perfectly with Elspeth. But none's is playing Elspeth anymore.
Moat is also more solid allowing you to set a bigger Entreat and to save your StP for mere fliers
definitly, which is best depends on your decklist and favorite/worse matchups
I don't know how people keep on not playing Energy Field and 2+ Blood Moons
They just win games alone. They don't get you 100% of the victories but, like Helm, they steal games that, at the end of the day can be 3-6 points
Because even with a deck built around utilizing Energy Field and Blood Moon, they end up as clunky draws fairly often.
Energy Field is close to useless without RIP.
Blood Moon is a red spell, which at times, you don't have a mana source of...
that's why they go 2-0 MD
and 0-2 SB
and you keep switching pieces in games 2-3.
in my 75s I want 2 of each
it's a preference thing for sure. Personally, I'm comfy with just one of each, since i feel it dilutes the deck too much for my taste. That's what the tutors are for anyway.
I'd say the biggest thing with Misdirection over Divert is being able to hit turn 1 Thoughtseize on the draw, or if you ran out a top on turn 1 on the play. If they have Thoughtseize in hand there's a good chance they lead with it, and that and Hymn to Tourach are the main uses for Misdirection, in my experience, at least.
Silly idea : death miracle :)
Our little brother is doing it to great succes why not us?
Because it has antisynergy with terminus, explosives...And you are more forced to fetch up duals (tropical, Sea) so our manabase becomes weaker...
Sure the idea of putting in some manaaccleration would not be the badest thing but i dont think shaman would be good in this kind of deck (most because oft the reasons above)
Creatures [7]
1 Vendilion Clique
2 Snapcaster Mage
4 Deathrite Shaman
Instants [11]
3 Force of Will
4 Brainstorm
4 Swords to Plowshares
Sorceries [11]
2 Ponder
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Thoughtseize
3 Terminus
2 Entreat the Angels
Planeswalkers [4]
1 Elspeth, Knight Errant
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
Artifacts [4]
4 Sensei's Divining Top
Lands [24]
1 Creeping Tar Pit
2 Island
1 Karakas
1 Marsh Flats
1 Plains
1 Scrubland
1 Swamp
1 Tropical Island
2 Tundra
3 Underground Sea
2 Wasteland
4 Flooded Strand
4 Polluted Delta
Something like this might be worth testing. The mana acceleration + grave removal pre-sideboard may improve some matchups.
....please....stop!
lol
Really, I think any attempt to make a Deathrite Miracle deck would basically morph into Deathblade... in pretty much the same way that attempts to add Black brought me closer to Stoneblade.
If you're trying to cram Deathrite Shaman into Miracle Control you're basically missing the goal of the deck.
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