[Primer/Deck] Pox

[OmniStrata]

It was interesting to see your sideboard. What do you take out/put in for certain matchups? Are two Pithing Needles enough for the Countertop matchup? I have been flirting with using a Tainted Aether for a while as well, good to see you still like that. Maybe I will give it a try sometime.

What are your main Ratchet Bomb targets? Do you use Perish in any other matchup than elves? Is it really worth it if a deck only runs half green creatures like Maverick?

It looks like you run a lot of Spinning Darkness which could really be great in many matchups, though I guess you still have to pox the shamans and Bobs. Is part of the plan to exile the extra Nether Spirit if you draw the second? Though I guess there could be the occasion youhave one in play and the other one comes in on the upkeep. Seems like it could be tricky to time the Spinning Darkness correctly. Plays less well with Bloodghasts I suppose. One of the disadvantages of them.

Our decks are very similar and I suppose one could say traditional, but I am still experimenting with the Top, Dakmore Salvage, Bloodghast, Cruciable of Worlds engine/package/beatdown plan. It's graveyard reliance makes me a bit nervous, though. I love pitching Ghasts rather than 'Business' and casting two pox effects rather than pitching one to the other. But who knows maybe I'll come back to Jesus one day and just Entomb the Spirts for good measure, Spinning darkness away an extra copy and put the Spirit blocks and beats right from the start.

Never forget, sideboards are meta-based and when uncertain, there is also the 'blind' sideboard (4 of anti-aggro, combo, control, 3 Meta guesses/anti-yard). To answer your questions:

The most sideboard-able [sp?] cards in my version of Pox are Dark Ritual and Wasteland. Immediately after game one, I automatically know which of these must go. If you're not fighting a quick draw deck, Dark Ritual is an automatic out. Pox is a card advantage deck and the tempo you gain from Dark Rit I've found only necessary when you HAVE to double Hymn on turn two or Inqui+Hymn turn one, otherwise, Dark Ritual isn't what Pox really wants. Wasteland is a given. Lotsa basics? It's gone. I've got enough mana sources and the overall cmc of the deck is nice and low. You can't side both of them out though, lol. Most of the time, decks with mostly basics are hella fast anyway so Dark Rit stays. (Burn comes to mind among other mono-color aggro decks)

I only run one Needle. Ratchet Bomb does what Needle also does, but does a better job. My main Bomb targets are tokens [EtW combo, Dredge], and any hard targets like enchantments or artifacts. Most non-leyline targets will fall to the Bomb and if they Pithing my Bomb, my Liliana and other threats are happy. Ratchet Bombed a Jace the Mind Scuplter? Well yes, yes I have. ^_^

Perish targets? Elves, Tarmogoyf [oh yeah...], Knight of the Reliquary, Terravore, Progenitus , Sigarda, Host of Herons, Mongoose, DRS, Enchantress, Zoo, Tarmogoyf [oh wait], Noble Hierarch, Scavenging Ooze, Rhox Warmonk, Pridemage... derp derp etc. Perish is almost never dead in a meta with any creatures ^_^ If it hits 2 creatures, you generate card advantage and that's fine by Pox.

Spinning Darkness. Yes, it helps control the Yard and keep only 1 Nether Spirit in there. A free Lightning Helix? Hell yeah, ONLY in Pox. Can't hit players, but when you block their 4/5 Tarmogoyf with Nether Spirit and then follow up with a free Spinning Darkness, well, you get the idea. That's why I run only 2 Nether Spirits in the whole deck.

Going all graveyard dependent with Pox is fine, but you simply become easier to hate. One of my friends thought the Tormod's Crypt would stop me but after getting eaten by Factories, Liliana, and Cursed Scroll, the Crypts became a waste of time. I pretty much net-decked the Duke and did some of my own tweaking based on my meta. Pox built to make an opponent draw nothing useful is the best way to build it. You're the anti-everything deck so long as it's not Dredge or graveyard based.

Sensei's Top. Ah, I used to run that in Pox myself along with Dakmore Salvages to recover from my Poxes. However, since I'm against using fetchlands to reshuffle due to being mono-colored, the Top, by nature causes your draws to stink something fierce. True, you could just dredge away the junk but that demands a dredger and heavy reliance on the yard. But if you have the space, which I don't, I would say yes, include the Top. Sensei's Divining Top deck only hurts pox if you can't throw away your crap after 3-4 turns somehow.

Crucible Pox? Now you're trying to go the MANY non-basic lands route. You want to make your lands do something nasty. Cabal Pit, Wasteland, Factory, Quicksand, all become extremely dangerous card advantage if you land that Crucible. Sadly, the creatures in my meta were too fast for me to include it. Liliana + C. Scroll carried their weight better than my Crucible + goofy lands.

If you successfully cast a Big Pox, you should have timed it so that you can make a strong comeback, or just bury your foe that much faster. It makes a deck with fewer creatures kill faster so if you're a HEAVY aggro deck, I'd actually recommend against using it since your threats are strong enough as is. I always pitch smallpox and poxes to themselves, If I can't win off the back of 3 pox-like effects in a game, I'm probably dead.

[OmniStrata]

@omnistrata,

Technically speaking; Dredging do nothing more than reduce the number of cards remaining in your library. Also while you bemoan the potential loss of cards, it is equally possible dredging will let you reach them sooner by putting less valuable care into the graveyard.

The fact that you don't know what you'll be dredging [without SDT lol] isn't worth it for me. My meta's creatures usually have a toughness of 2-3 so Darkblast doesn't hit hard enough for me. Darkblast sounds fine in a meta with several 1/1s or graveyard hate based creatures (Yixlid Jailer?). My friend's Led-less Dredge deck used Darkblast to dangerous effect vs. any creature that ate his Yard (save Scavenging Ooze, he's a God vs. Dredge).

I suppose my ultimate opinion, for my version of Pox is that Pox is a pox deck, not a dredge deck. I've tried dredging versions of Pox before and failed. Some Loam Poxes have won at tournaments so if you're gonna dredge, that's probably your best route to take.

I like Mono-B Pox. I'm biased like that

[beez]

Most non-leyline targets will fall to the Bomb and if they Pithing my Bomb, my Liliana and other threats are happy. Ratchet Bombed a Jace the Mind Scuplter? Well yes, yes I have. ^_^
.

They need a fist pump icon

[beez]

Yeah, I used to not Run Dark Ritual, but after having non-pox decks like BUG out Hymn or Lilliana me at the beginning of a game, I put them back in and got addicted to their explosive starts like crack. I think your ideas about when to use them and not make a pretty simple metric to go by in general.

Thanks for the detailed thoughts on your card choices. I am always interested in ideas about Pox and Pox card synergies new and old.

[OmniStrata]

Yeah, I used to not Run Dark Ritual, but after having non-pox decks like BUG out Hymn or Lilliana me at the beginning of a game, I put them back in and got addicted to their explosive starts like crack. I think your ideas about when to use them and not make a pretty simple metric to go by in general.

Thanks for the detailed thoughts on your card choices. I am always interested in ideas about Pox and Pox card synergies new and old.

I enjoy Pox with the old ways yet using new cards. Remember, you want to be an off-kilter card advantage deck. When you spend one card, they should be losing 2-4 cards, and as they do, you laugh manically. While most people think of card advantage as drawing more cards, which is true, our 'version' is spending and losing less cards then them...

Don't get addicted to dem explosive starts. You lose the advantage should what ever you summon be stopped. Nothing brings tears to me like a Pithing Needle after I dark rit Liliana into play turn 1. Unless you're fighting a super fast Aggro or combo deck, Dark Ritual has an expendable stamp across it's face. Also, try to use Dark Ritual to double cast. It makes counterspells that much easier to ignore.

My favorite play that happens a lot? Dark Ritual turn 2 after playing my 2nd land. Hymn to Tourach. Bait counter. Sinkhole. A replacement for you discard junkies to match the cmc: Wrench Mind.

[beez]

I have been too chicken (or wise) to Ritual-Liliana turn one against known blue deck. On turn two only with Inquisition support.

That is interesting. I was wondering yesterday what the correct play would be, Hymn or Sinkole first. Now I see.

A couple more things:
Do you ritual into Big Pox blind on turn one if no Liliana in hand (or even with her!) Or are there some more thoughtful criteria?

If I run a Crucible or Salvage it looks like four mana is not always out of the question. Is a Damnation in the sideboard too ambitious or slow for creature sweeping?

[OmniStrata]

I have been too chicken (or wise) to Ritual-Liliana turn one against known blue deck. On turn two only with Inquisition support.

That is interesting. I was wondering yesterday what the correct play would be, Hymn or Sinkole first. Now I see.

A couple more things:
Do you ritual into Big Pox blind on turn one if no Liliana in hand (or even with her!) Or are there some more thoughtful criteria?

If I run a Crucible or Salvage it looks like four mana is not always out of the question. Is a Damnation in the sideboard too ambitious or slow for creature sweeping?

1. Ritual into Big Pox turn 1 is bad. It's funny, but bad. You lose 5 cards to their 3. Never do it. On the draw, you still lose more cards then them.
2. Damnation is fine. Control-shell Pox can afford to go long game and Damnation ensures any non-indestructible will bite the bullet. Though I'd consider some form of mana accel that's permanent, like Phyrexian Totem or Mox Diamond (Crucible likes it), or some other cheap artifact that makes B. If you're getting rushed by creatures, stalling to turn 4 shouldn't be hard unless you draw no removal at all for 3 turns.

Some light reading for Pox players: http://www.mtgtwincast.com/Articles/...PoxPrimer.html

Despite being old, I do like some of the sideboard choices listed here. And yes, Darkblast is suggested too ^_^

[Hardcore]

Looking for some input on my deck; I have ordered four chalice and it looks like I will play next Tuesday!



4 bloodghast
4 Tombstalker
4 nihilith
4 phyrexian negator

4 smallpox
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 pox
4 chalice of the void

21 swamp
2 dakmor salvage
4 dark Ritual



I have like two to four slots available (I may cut one TB because I run less dredge effects now)
Any ideas? Myself I have been thinking IoK could be good. I play versus combo a lot, after all.

[Sughayyer]

IoK + chalice? I mean it can be nice to cast one while you are waiting for chalice to get online, but... Then you get 3 useless cards in the deck. I could suggest wrench mind but then again it needs 2 mana just like chalice...

[Hardcore]

Well, I figure three dead cards in the deck is no big deal if I got a chalice in play.
So, t: 1 IoK, t: 2 chalice. Ofc. this is the dream scenario...


Long term I am thinking of adding a mox of some kind. A fifth "Ritual" you know.

[Sughayyer]

You said you have 2 to 4 free slots... I cannot conceive chrome mox on a deck that wants every card, but darkmor salvage likes mox diamond. So does crucible of worlds but I know that's not your point with the aggro pox.

[Hardcore]

Thanks! I had overlooked that interaction.

[OmniStrata]

I have like two to four slots available (I may cut one TB because I run less dredge effects now)
Any ideas? Myself I have been thinking IoK could be good. I play versus combo a lot, after all.

Duress >> Inquisition of Kozilek for Combo.

The Inquisition I find is best against decks with fast cheap creatures and cheap spells without alternative casting costs. (see Snuff Out, Force of Will, most Planeswalkers etc.]

Against combo, the old school Oppression is good and you can't IoK Ad Nauseum. Hell, in an Aggro Pox, I'd run Cabal Therapies and REALLY put the hurt on.

[Hardcore]

Yeah, well, running Duress and Cabal Therapy, instead of the Hymns, is an option. Or perhaps Duress in main and Therapy in SB.
(Nah, what am i saying? I don't have enough dudes to sacrifice)

It could be argued that Duress in main help me play my chalices. Both by pulling counters, and also to slow combo down.

4 bloodghast
4 Tombstalker
4 nihilith
4 phyrexian negator

4 smallpox
4 Duress
4 pox
4 chalice of the void

21 swamp
2 dakmor salvage
4 dark Ritual

Still got slots to fill Maybe Hymns...

[OmniStrata]

Yeah, well, running Duress and Cabal Therapy, instead of the Hymns, is an option. Or perhaps Duress in main and Therapy in SB.
(Nah, what am i saying? I don't have enough dudes to sacrifice)

It could be argued that Duress in main help me play my chalices. Both by pulling counters, and also to slow combo down.

4 bloodghast
4 Tombstalker
4 nihilith
4 phyrexian negator

4 smallpox
4 Duress
4 pox
4 chalice of the void

21 swamp
2 dakmor salvage
4 dark Ritual

Still got slots to fill Maybe Hymns...

Actually, at 16 creatures with 4 hopping in and out of the yard, Therapy would work, but the Chalice stops you

Maybe hymns? A Pox deck without Hymns is either pure LD (not optimal) or crazy. 2 for 1 has never 'benefited' any opponent short of Dredge But with Chalices blocking your Duress/IoK, Hymn & Wrench mind seem to be what you're looking for. Forget the Negator, run Necrogen Mists and Nyxathid and watch their eyes bulge as they desperately hunt for their removal. Combo decks aren't fans of empty hands and 7/7s bearing down on them.

[Hardcore]

Passed by the local gaming den today to get a feel for the Meta. Only eight players but that is normal in summertime. Lots of blue, green, black colors with splashes of red and white. Iow punishing fire, junk (?), Orbnaught, rb delver, Loampox and such.
Typical.

[Sughayyer]

I was just wondering... Wouldn't chalices be better left on the sideboard? You are going to kill all the 1-drops you are running and then you'll hymn/wrench mind them wich can possibly discard the useless 1 drop anyway.
It seems to me that aside combo, the only 1-mana card that can annoy you is swords to plowshares, and if your opponents are spending mana plowsharing your dudes they aren't spending mana recovering themselves from the pox effects. I may be speaking nonsense but there are 2 routes you can take: grindy slow pox and drop dudes, scramble their gameplan with pox, attempt to kill quickly. Your line seems more like the second one, but chalics remind me more the first...

[Hardcore]

Grindy has indeed been the problem. Many decks are remarkably durable and can recover from pox, hymn, and big dude. Chalice however will stop that annoying StP top deck.

Anyway, I am thinking of cutting one pox and add three powder kegs. After all, I have removed seven creature kill in this new configuration. I added a third Dakmor Salvage to better cast Tombstalker.

4 bloodghast
4 Tombstalker
4 nihilith
4 phyrexian negator

4 smallpox
4 Hymn to Tourach
3 pox
4 chalice of the void

20 swamp
3 dakmor salvage
4 dark Ritual
3 powder keg

SB:


1 Filth
1 Buried Alive
1 powder keg
1 Pox
3 surgical extraction


It is unfinished but it is time to go to bed.

[beez]

I will have to proxy your deck and play a few hands in oreder to get a better feel for it

[beez]

I may get a chance to play some Legacy Friday, if so I am thinking of this list. I have includedsome sideboard strategies since I am sometimes unsure what to board out even if I know what to board in. Do these seem sound?



Nether Spirit
1 Bloodghast

2 Crucible of Worlds
2 Sensei's Divining Top
2 Cursed Scroll

2 Pox
4 Smallpox
4 Lilliana Of The Veil
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Inquisition Of Kozeliek
4 Innocent Blood
4 Sinkhole
4 Dark Ritual

4 Wasteland
1 Cabal Pit
2 Bojuka Bog
4 Mishra's Factory
4 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
9 Swamp

3 ratchet bomb
1 pithing Needle
4 leyline of the void
1 thoughtsieze
2 thorn of amethyst
2 infest
2 perish



Vs dredge:
+4 leyline +1 p needle +3 ratchet bomb + 2 infest
-4 inq -4 hymn -2pox

Vs reanimator
+4 leyline +1 Thoughtsieze
-2 pox -3 smallpox

Vs stoneblade:
+1 pithing needle +3 bombs
-4 Dark Ritual

Vs rug delver:
+1 thoughtsieze +2 perish +2 infest
-1 crucible - 4 dark rit

Vs shardless bug :
+1 thoughtseize + 2 infest +2perish
-4 dark ritual. - 1 crucible

Vs Jund
+2 Perish +2 infest
-4 Dark Ritual

Vs elves
+1 t sieze +2 perish +2 infest +3 bomb +1needle
-1 top -2 crucible -2 bojuka -4 sinkhole

Vs merfolk
+3 bomb +1 needle +1 t seize + 2infest
-4 ritual -1 crucible -2 bojuka

Vs storm:
+3 bomb +1thoughtsieze +2 thorn +4 leyline
-4 innocent blood -2 crucible- 4 sinkhole

Vs burn
+3 r bomb +2thorn. +2 infest
-2 pox -4 wasteland -1crucible

Vs countertop
+1needle +1 thoughtsieze +3 bomb
-4 innocent blood -1 crucible

Vs sneaky show
+4 needle +3 r bomb +2 thorn
-4 inq -4 hymn if show sanctity

Vs omni tell/clash
+2 thorn. +3 bomb +1 tsieze
-4 innocent blood -2 scroll

Vs UB Tezz
+ 3 bomb +4 leyline +2 infest
-1 top -4 innocent blood -4 ritual

Vs loam decks
+3 bomb +4 leyline +2 infest +2 perish
-4 ritual -4 inq -2 top -1 innocent blood

Vs maverick
+1 damnation + 4 infest
-4 Dark ritual -1 top